02-11-2018, 07:36 PM | #1476 | |
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02-11-2018, 10:08 PM | #1478 |
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I guess we will all see in April. My money says its under 60k happy shopping!!!
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02-12-2018, 11:09 AM | #1479 |
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02-13-2018, 09:29 AM | #1480 |
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BMW M2 Competition to debut in Beijing
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02-13-2018, 11:27 AM | #1481 | ||
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But if it's Beijing: Beijing Motor Show 2018 - Auto China (2018) = April 25, 2018 to May 4, 2018. If you plan to visit, you might meet SCOTT26: Quote:
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02-13-2018, 11:32 AM | #1482 | |
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IMO: SCOTT26 is a group of people |
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02-15-2018, 12:35 PM | #1483 | ||||
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Regarding the E82 1-Series, BMW M has also experimented by using the modified S54 engine of the E46 M3 CSL (S54B32HP), but it proved to be too heavy for the car. The initial engine proposal for the E82 1M was the N55 engine, but BMW M encountered (mainly) Valvetronic issues that required time to sort out. The trouble was that, back then (E82 1-Series end of production date approaching), the time-window was too brief to get the job done the way BMW M wanted it. Therefore BMW M decided to withdraw the decision of using the N55 engine of the E82 135i (N55B30M0) as basis for rework/upgrade for the 1M, and decided instead to use the N54 engine of the E82 135i (N54B30) as basis for rework/upgrade. And yes, the 1M got the upgraded N54 engine (N54B30TO). The (re)work done on the N55 engine for the 1M wasn't in vain. It was kept for further progress: use in a future M model. The 2014 F80 M3 and F82 M4 got the S55 engine (S55B30T0) and the 2016 F87 M2 got a modified N55 engine (N55B30T0). More generally about 1M development, sources confirm that there has been a lot of arm-twisting between BMW M and BMW management because of the tight time-window between the E82 1-Series and the next-generation 1-Series (the F20). Former BMW M CEO boss Dr. Kay Segler presented a 1M proposal to the BMW board, but it got rejected. As he believed in it, he persisted: he reworked the initial 1M proposal, presented it again to the BMW board and it got approved that time around. That final 1M proposal was greenlighted as BMW management decided to use the E82 1-Series for the BMW eDrive evaluation (hybrid test cars), therefore slightly extending the E82 1-Series life cycle. This brief extra time-window was sufficient for building the 1M (though with time and budget constraints). Few realize that, without the E82 extended life cycle time granted by the BMW board for the E82 eDrive evaluation model, the E82 1M would have never been around. Research and development, evaluation models, available R&D budget and time-constraints, pecking order management decisions, future price-position and profit margins, production facility capacity and constraints, third party parts and services availability, laws and regulations (safety, emissions, taxes, etc.), new competing cars, and so on: the final version of a car released onto the market is inevitably a combination of many factors, a compromise (almost always a toned down version of what the designers and engineers have developed, or at least had in mind). Hence, possible spectacular M2 evaluation models that could be a wet dream for petrol heads, could definitely exist (as also rumored). But unfortunately will remain (finished or partially finished) unicorns stowed away in a BMW M hall/parking/bunker or get scrapped or only feature on computers of developers, should those never be greenlighted by management for market release (with the complexity of BMW and BMW M each having a management required to interact). So it ain't always a story of what can be achieved, but also a story of what is allowed to be achieved: feasibility as restricted by laws & regs and by management decisions. Easy for enthusiasts to post car specs 'wish lists' on car forums and criticize choices made by a car maker, but the reality is pretty complex.
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02-15-2018, 01:30 PM | #1484 |
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Pretty sure the use of S55 is just a cost cutting measure. M3 is getting canned due to new WLTP requiring redesign - they compare M3 and M4 demand, cut M3 so they don't have to redesign both cars. Same with N55 - why support more engine/hardware variations when you can just stick S55 into everything and tune it differently across the line-up?
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02-15-2018, 03:22 PM | #1485 | |
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The next generation 6 cyl M engine (S48?) is not yet ready and will debut in the new X3M, so the S55 it is for the updated M2. Not necessarily a cost cutting measure since it is more costly to produce than say, the N55.
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02-15-2018, 03:52 PM | #1486 | ||
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you have many wrong assumptions above. M3 sedan production ALWAYS ceases 1-2 years before M3/M4 coupe... because the sedans come out first.. http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=901686 Quote:
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02-15-2018, 03:54 PM | #1487 | |||
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02-15-2018, 03:57 PM | #1488 |
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wow.. thanks.. I was beginning to think it was a radio station in Marietta.
Well it looks like reading up on it is as lengthy as the name.. https://www.theicct.org/sites/defaul...20141029_0.pdf |
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02-15-2018, 04:28 PM | #1489 | |||
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Just because it's a *more expensive* engine doesn't make it *more expensive to produce* if you're looking at revenue/margins. 2 different things. Quote:
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02-15-2018, 05:20 PM | #1490 |
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Yes thanks to this new testing process they need to ditch the N55 in EU, as it wouldn't pass and additional R&D is not feasible for a fading engine. Also from what I've learned manufacturers are going to add DPF filters to petrol engines from now on which add weight and hassle when it brakes down or isn't maintained properly.
I agree, alot of companies now chase volume and margin at the same time cutting tails and low margin products focusing on high UOM (underlying operating margin). So S55 with price bump and additional options will be more profitable for sure. Now that they established the M2 as a star in their range with all 6 Ps covered they will milk it as much as possible. I'd do exactly the same if I was in their marketing team |
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02-15-2018, 07:55 PM | #1491 | |
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http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/1...el-in-may-2018 So who knows... |
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02-15-2018, 10:50 PM | #1492 |
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Just read your updated post (#1) of this thread. Seems as though you are not fully willing to confirm 6MT as an offering for the M2 Competition? Am I reading that right? Hard for me to tell if M2 Competition is base M2 or if M2 CS is the Competition vs 2018 base? Either way: Is M2 Competition (2019) going to have a 6MT transmission for North America? |
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02-15-2018, 11:10 PM | #1493 | |
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02-16-2018, 07:10 AM | #1494 | |
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Other than that, here are two questions: 1) 1M N54 seems identical to other N54s hardware wise. What exactly is it that you referred to as rework? 2) It was very unlikely any of S55 technologies have anything to do with the so called 1M N55 development. I doubt such development exists at all. Keep in mind that's PWG days, the very infancy of N55. It looks to me a simple fact that BMW knew better than anyone else back then that PWG turbo can support far less boost than N54 twins. For such a parts bin project like 1M, better throw at it something (N54) that's already existent, tune it up and be done with it, which they did. And did again with M2. Think about it, even when F series came out in late 2012 with 2nd gen N55, it was still PWG N55, quality/reliability issues were fixed a little bit, but no performance upgrade had been made at all. It's hard to believe back then (2013) they reworked N55 with S55 tech (like what?) for 1M 3 years ago (2010).
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02-16-2018, 07:42 AM | #1495 | ||
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You are correct that BMW determined that the twin turbo setup of the N54 was superior to the single turbo setup of the N55 and that's why they used it for the 1M and the Z435is. IIRC the 135is eventually went to an N55 |
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02-16-2018, 07:41 PM | #1496 | ||||||
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Further to an authoritative voice claiming "M-DCT only" (by mistake, later corrected) , lots of forum fellows got pretty skeptical about the possibility of a 6MT (even to the point that some criticized my 6MT enthusiasm: see for example here and here). Leaked VINs surfaced confirming that BMW was definitely testing both transmissions concurrently. No M-DCT going solo (as for the M4 CS and M3 CS), but a tango of transmissions - embers engulfed in flames: now feel the glow, but don't get burnt. VIN data of 118 pre-production M2 Competition cars show a 1/3 - 2/3 split (see here):
On the other hand, regarding a hypothetical 2019 hardcore M2 variant: if that's ever released, M-DCT only, I'm afraid (track-oriented = fast lap times). On to your second question: Quote:
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Little throwback in digging up an excerpt of something I posted back in April 2016: the first M2 cars had barely left dealerships or there was already the rumor about an S55 engine inside an M2 due for release in 2018. Time flies ! Quote:
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