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      02-11-2018, 07:07 PM   #1475
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That's not going to be hard to code lol
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      02-11-2018, 07:36 PM   #1476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Added to the first post of this thread:

'M2 COMPETITION' UPDATE #6 (FEBRUARY 2018):
Leaked picture of the M2 Competition instrument panel logo + red start/stop button (as also featuring on the F90 M5 and F80 M3 CS).

(source: here)
Looks like there is a rectangular screen that runs below the speedo and tach? Are we expecting the same speedo as the LCI?

Last edited by filet.M2c; 02-13-2018 at 08:20 PM..
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      02-11-2018, 08:04 PM   #1477
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Maybe the key will be different for the M2 Competition
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      02-11-2018, 10:08 PM   #1478
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Originally Posted by m4282 View Post
that won't happen when your sharing the engine that sits in the GTS.
I guess we will all see in April. My money says its under 60k happy shopping!!!
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      02-12-2018, 11:09 AM   #1479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4282 View Post
that won't happen when your sharing the engine that sits in the GTS.
It is sharing the engine in the base M3/M4, in a detuned nature.
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      02-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #1480
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BMW M2 Competition to debut in Beijing

Not sure if this was posted yet....

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/13/...-405-hp-debut/
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      02-13-2018, 11:27 AM   #1481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdarwin View Post
Not sure if this was posted yet....
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/13/...-405-hp-debut/
Still speculation: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sea...rchid=54090108

But if it's Beijing: Beijing Motor Show 2018 - Auto China (2018) = April 25, 2018 to May 4, 2018.

If you plan to visit, you might meet SCOTT26:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
NAIAS Detroit.
And the World Premiere for the BMW i8 Coupe LCI and the all new BMW X2.
The major Autoshows for 2018 Detroit,Geneva,Beijing,Paris and LA are handled by BMW AG.
The lesser shows such as those mentioned here are primary funded by the US distributor. The US distributor therefore make the decisions to either find the show or utilise the capital for other marketing and personal events for direct customer engagement.
No I am not at the NAIAS. But will be in Geneva and Beijing. They will be awesome.
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Hungry for information?
Where do we go to eat?
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      02-13-2018, 11:32 AM   #1482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Still speculation: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sea...rchid=54090108

But if it's Beijing: Beijing Motor Show 2018 - Auto China (2018) = April 25, 2018 to May 4, 2018.

If you plan to visit, you might meet SCOTT26:
Artemis: SCOTT26 is a legendary creature that has been described since antiquity as a beast with a single large Roundel projecting from its forehead. aka Bavarian Unicorn

IMO: SCOTT26 is a group of people
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      02-15-2018, 12:35 PM   #1483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quduoheng View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroya View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quduoheng View Post
The "perfect business sense" is to deliberately degrade the car, fit N55 engine. And delete M -Minor, M-seat, M buttons and so on.
Because even with this down grade, it still makes M2 a decent car. So it leaves room for new generation to come without scraching their head too hard.
By your measure every new model that comes out is inadequate.
I don't know man. IF, they had plans for m2 comp with s55 when they make the m2 in 2016, then yes, for this particular model, it is inadequate. Switch to S55 engine is not an technical challenge they broke through, it is a marketing stratage.
We all heard nylon stocking companies purposefully made their products inadequate to ensure a steady increase on sales.
Not trying to argue, Just saying, sometimes companies do make decisions seems make no sense, but profitable.
Still, love to drive any given M2, can't wait for mine later this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunil_linus View Post
If anyone remembers, a detuned S55 was suppose to be the original motor that everyone rumored was going to be in the '16 M2 but it obviously didn't happen. I feel like BMW finally right a wrong by completing the package with the upcoming set up.
And since the S55 has been on the market for a few years now, I'm sure there is a tune/piggyback that's already sitting on a shelf somewhere.. 450hp/TQ easily, (from the back) of the dealer lot
Why no S55 engine with all M2 Competition bells 'n whistles in the 2016 M2 ? Try to understand the bigger picture:

Regarding the E82 1-Series, BMW M has also experimented by using the modified S54 engine of the E46 M3 CSL (S54B32HP), but it proved to be too heavy for the car.

The initial engine proposal for the E82 1M was the N55 engine, but BMW M encountered (mainly) Valvetronic issues that required time to sort out. The trouble was that, back then (E82 1-Series end of production date approaching), the time-window was too brief to get the job done the way BMW M wanted it. Therefore BMW M decided to withdraw the decision of using the N55 engine of the E82 135i (N55B30M0) as basis for rework/upgrade for the 1M, and decided instead to use the N54 engine of the E82 135i (N54B30) as basis for rework/upgrade. And yes, the 1M got the upgraded N54 engine (N54B30TO).

The (re)work done on the N55 engine for the 1M wasn't in vain. It was kept for further progress: use in a future M model. The 2014 F80 M3 and F82 M4 got the S55 engine (S55B30T0) and the 2016 F87 M2 got a modified N55 engine (N55B30T0).

More generally about 1M development, sources confirm that there has been a lot of arm-twisting between BMW M and BMW management because of the tight time-window between the E82 1-Series and the next-generation 1-Series (the F20). Former BMW M CEO boss Dr. Kay Segler presented a 1M proposal to the BMW board, but it got rejected. As he believed in it, he persisted: he reworked the initial 1M proposal, presented it again to the BMW board and it got approved that time around. That final 1M proposal was greenlighted as BMW management decided to use the E82 1-Series for the BMW eDrive evaluation (hybrid test cars), therefore slightly extending the E82 1-Series life cycle. This brief extra time-window was sufficient for building the 1M (though with time and budget constraints). Few realize that, without the E82 extended life cycle time granted by the BMW board for the E82 eDrive evaluation model, the E82 1M would have never been around.

Research and development, evaluation models, available R&D budget and time-constraints, pecking order management decisions, future price-position and profit margins, production facility capacity and constraints, third party parts and services availability, laws and regulations (safety, emissions, taxes, etc.), new competing cars, and so on: the final version of a car released onto the market is inevitably a combination of many factors, a compromise (almost always a toned down version of what the designers and engineers have developed, or at least had in mind).

Hence, possible spectacular M2 evaluation models that could be a wet dream for petrol heads, could definitely exist (as also rumored). But unfortunately will remain (finished or partially finished) unicorns stowed away in a BMW M hall/parking/bunker or get scrapped or only feature on computers of developers, should those never be greenlighted by management for market release (with the complexity of BMW and BMW M each having a management required to interact).

So it ain't always a story of what can be achieved, but also a story of what is allowed to be achieved: feasibility as restricted by laws & regs and by management decisions. Easy for enthusiasts to post car specs 'wish lists' on car forums and criticize choices made by a car maker, but the reality is pretty complex.
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      02-15-2018, 01:30 PM   #1484
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Pretty sure the use of S55 is just a cost cutting measure. M3 is getting canned due to new WLTP requiring redesign - they compare M3 and M4 demand, cut M3 so they don't have to redesign both cars. Same with N55 - why support more engine/hardware variations when you can just stick S55 into everything and tune it differently across the line-up?
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      02-15-2018, 03:22 PM   #1485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corcovado View Post
Pretty sure the use of S55 is just a cost cutting measure. M3 is getting canned due to new WLTP requiring redesign - they compare M3 and M4 demand, cut M3 so they don't have to redesign both cars. Same with N55 - why support more engine/hardware variations when you can just stick S55 into everything and tune it differently across the line-up?
The M3 is getting canned because this generation sedan ends production, as simple as that. No more F30/F80 after October, enter the new G20 generation.

The next generation 6 cyl M engine (S48?) is not yet ready and will debut in the new X3M, so the S55 it is for the updated M2. Not necessarily a cost cutting measure since it is more costly to produce than say, the N55.
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      02-15-2018, 03:52 PM   #1486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corcovado View Post
Pretty sure the use of S55 is just a cost cutting measure. M3 is getting canned due to new WLTP requiring redesign - they compare M3 and M4 demand, cut M3 so they don't have to redesign both cars. Same with N55 - why support more engine/hardware variations when you can just stick S55 into everything and tune it differently across the line-up?
WTF is WLTP ?

you have many wrong assumptions above.

M3 sedan production ALWAYS ceases 1-2 years before M3/M4 coupe... because the sedans come out first..

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=901686


Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
The M3 is getting canned because this generation sedan ends production, as simple as that. No more F30/F80 after October, enter the new G20 generation.

The next generation 6 cyl M engine (S48?) is not yet ready and will debut in the new X3M, so the S55 it is for the updated M2. Not necessarily a cost cutting measure since it is more costly to produce than say, the N55.
Correct ! EOP for the M3 is 10/18 The next M3 will have the S58 motor that first comes in the X3M/ X4M when they are introduced.
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      02-15-2018, 03:54 PM   #1487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by corcovado View Post
Pretty sure the use of S55 is just a cost cutting measure. M3 is getting canned due to new WLTP requiring redesign - they compare M3 and M4 demand, cut M3 so they don't have to redesign both cars. Same with N55 - why support more engine/hardware variations when you can just stick S55 into everything and tune it differently across the line-up?
WTF is WLTP ?

you have many wrong assumptions above.

M3 sedan production ALWAYS ceases 1-2 years before M3/M4 coupe... because the sedans come out first..


Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
The M3 is getting canned because this generation sedan ends production, as simple as that. No more F30/F80 after October, enter the new G20 generation.

The next generation 6 cyl M engine (S48?) is not yet ready and will debut in the new X3M, so the S55 it is for the updated M2. Not necessarily a cost cutting measure since it is more costly to produce than say, the N55.
Correct ! EOP for the M3 is 10/18

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=901686
Worldwide harmonized Light-duty vehicles Test Procedure
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      02-15-2018, 03:57 PM   #1488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Worldwide harmonized Light-duty vehicles Test Procedure
wow.. thanks.. I was beginning to think it was a radio station in Marietta.

Well it looks like reading up on it is as lengthy as the name..

https://www.theicct.org/sites/defaul...20141029_0.pdf
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      02-15-2018, 04:28 PM   #1489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Not necessarily a cost cutting measure since it is more costly to produce than say, the N55.
Is it more expensive to maintain 2 production lines for 2 different engines, or have one engine and swap the software depending on which car it's going to?

Just because it's a *more expensive* engine doesn't make it *more expensive to produce* if you're looking at revenue/margins. 2 different things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
WTF is WLTP ?

you have many wrong assumptions above.

M3 sedan production ALWAYS ceases 1-2 years before M3/M4 coupe... because the sedans come out first..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2018/01/30/bm...ends-may-2018/

Quote:
The introduction of the new driving cycle WLTP accelerates the end of production for the BMW M3 F80 which will now end in May 2018. Just like all other gasoline engines, the BMW M3 F80 would have to be fitted with an Otto particle filter as of June 1, 2018, but the M Division has chosen to end the production of the fifth M3 generation a little earlier than expected.
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      02-15-2018, 05:20 PM   #1490
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Yes thanks to this new testing process they need to ditch the N55 in EU, as it wouldn't pass and additional R&D is not feasible for a fading engine. Also from what I've learned manufacturers are going to add DPF filters to petrol engines from now on which add weight and hassle when it brakes down or isn't maintained properly.
I agree, alot of companies now chase volume and margin at the same time cutting tails and low margin products focusing on high UOM (underlying operating margin).
So S55 with price bump and additional options will be more profitable for sure. Now that they established the M2 as a star in their range with all 6 Ps covered they will milk it as much as possible. I'd do exactly the same if I was in their marketing team
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      02-15-2018, 07:55 PM   #1491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corcovado View Post
Which was then disputed in this article:

http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/1...el-in-may-2018

So who knows...
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      02-15-2018, 10:50 PM   #1492
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Artemis

Just read your updated post (#1) of this thread. Seems as though you are not fully willing to confirm 6MT as an offering for the M2 Competition? Am I reading that right? Hard for me to tell if M2 Competition is base M2 or if M2 CS is the Competition vs 2018 base?

Either way: Is M2 Competition (2019) going to have a 6MT transmission for North America?
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      02-15-2018, 11:10 PM   #1493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Artemis

Just read your updated post (#1) of this thread. Seems as though you are not fully willing to confirm 6MT as an offering for the M2 Competition? Am I reading that right? Hard for me to tell if M2 Competition is base M2 or if M2 CS is the Competition vs 2018 base?

Either way: Is M2 Competition (2019) going to have a 6MT transmission for North America?
They have made a shitload of VINS for MT Competition models already.
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      02-16-2018, 07:10 AM   #1494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Therefore BMW M decided to withdraw the decision of using the N55 engine of the E82 135i (N55B30M0) as basis for rework/upgrade for the 1M, and decided instead to use the N54 engine of the E82 135i (N54B30) as basis for rework/upgrade. And yes, the 1M got the upgraded N54 engine (N54B30TO).

The (re)work done on the N55 engine for the 1M wasn't in vain. It was kept for further progress: use in a future M model. The 2014 F80 M3 and F82 M4 got the S55 engine (S55B30T0) and the 2016 F87 M2 got a modified N55 engine (N55B30T0).
Thanks for your input. Good point I'm a corporate guy and I can relate.

Other than that, here are two questions:

1) 1M N54 seems identical to other N54s hardware wise. What exactly is it that you referred to as rework?

2) It was very unlikely any of S55 technologies have anything to do with the so called 1M N55 development. I doubt such development exists at all. Keep in mind that's PWG days, the very infancy of N55. It looks to me a simple fact that BMW knew better than anyone else back then that PWG turbo can support far less boost than N54 twins. For such a parts bin project like 1M, better throw at it something (N54) that's already existent, tune it up and be done with it, which they did. And did again with M2.

Think about it, even when F series came out in late 2012 with 2nd gen N55, it was still PWG N55, quality/reliability issues were fixed a little bit, but no performance upgrade had been made at all. It's hard to believe back then (2013) they reworked N55 with S55 tech (like what?) for 1M 3 years ago (2010).
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      02-16-2018, 07:42 AM   #1495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Therefore BMW M decided to withdraw the decision of using the N55 engine of the E82 135i (N55B30M0) as basis for rework/upgrade for the 1M, and decided instead to use the N54 engine of the E82 135i (N54B30) as basis for rework/upgrade. And yes, the 1M got the upgraded N54 engine (N54B30TO).

The (re)work done on the N55 engine for the 1M wasn't in vain. It was kept for further progress: use in a future M model. The 2014 F80 M3 and F82 M4 got the S55 engine (S55B30T0) and the 2016 F87 M2 got a modified N55 engine (N55B30T0).
Thanks for your input. Good point I'm a corporate guy and I can relate.

Other than that, here are two questions:

1) 1M N54 seems identical to other N54s hardware wise. What exactly is it that you referred to as rework?

2) It was very unlikely any of S55 technologies have anything to do with the so called 1M N55 development. I doubt such development exists at all. Keep in mind that's PWG days, the very infancy of N55. It looks to me a simple fact that BMW knew better than anyone else back then that PWG turbo can support far less boost than N54 twins. For such a parts bin project like 1M, better throw at it something (N54) that's already existent, tune it up and be done with it, which they did. And did again with M2.

Think about it, even when F series came out in late 2012 with 2nd gen N55, it was still PWG N55, quality/reliability issues were fixed a little bit, but no performance upgrade had been made at all. It's hard to believe back then (2013) they reworked N55 with S55 tech (like what?) for 1M 3 years ago (2010).
The N54B30T0 different from other N54 motors in that it had a different tune, and it also utilizes a different piston ring.

You are correct that BMW determined that the twin turbo setup of the N54 was superior to the single turbo setup of the N55 and that's why they used it for the 1M and the Z435is.

IIRC the 135is eventually went to an N55
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      02-16-2018, 07:41 PM   #1496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Artemis
Just read your updated post (#1) of this thread. Seems as though you are not fully willing to confirm 6MT as an offering for the M2 Competition? Am I reading that right?
Either way: Is M2 Competition (2019) going to have a 6MT transmission for North America?
Post #1 of this thread is conceived in a chronological way. Updates are added at the end of the post. Thus without necessarily removing earlier posted outdated info, for evolution purposes (true that confusion can result from "Competition", "CS", GTS, etc. names; we all struggle(d) in following the name dropping).

About transmission:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
'M2 COMPETITION' UPDATE #1 (AUGUST 2017)
  • Gearbox (source 1 and source 2):
    • base M2: choice between M-DCT and manual gearbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
'M2 COMPETITION' UPDATE #3 (SEPTEMBER 2017)
  • transmission:
    • manual transmission = stock
    • M-DCT = optional (option code 2MK)
In the past I repeatedly expressed my belief that BMW would still offer a transmission choice for the forthcoming M2 variant: 6MT or M-DCT. Also in earlier posts I kept fanning the embers for 6MT. But back then, except for a 6MT M2 variant test mule spotted by someone in Germany (see here), we had no clear indications yet.

Further to an authoritative voice claiming "M-DCT only" (by mistake, later corrected) , lots of forum fellows got pretty skeptical about the possibility of a 6MT (even to the point that some criticized my 6MT enthusiasm: see for example here and here). Leaked VINs surfaced confirming that BMW was definitely testing both transmissions concurrently. No M-DCT going solo (as for the M4 CS and M3 CS), but a tango of transmissions - embers engulfed in flames: now feel the glow, but don't get burnt.

VIN data of 118 pre-production M2 Competition cars show a 1/3 - 2/3 split (see here):
  • 40 6MT (stock transmission) = 33.90%
  • 78 M-DCT (optional transmission) = 66.10%
So we may reasonably assume that both transmissions will be available for the M2 Competition, also in the US (the market with the highest 6MT take-rate for the M2: over 50%).

On the other hand, regarding a hypothetical 2019 hardcore M2 variant: if that's ever released, M-DCT only, I'm afraid (track-oriented = fast lap times).

On to your second question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Artemis
Hard for me to tell if M2 Competition is base M2 or if M2 CS is the Competition vs 2018 base?
Look here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
'M2 COMPETITION' UPDATE #5 (JANUARY 2018):
  • mid 2018: M2 Competition (3.0 S55 engine - 302kW) replaces the base M2 (3.0 N55 engine - 272 kW);
But with all this, do keep in mind that all of us are and remain enthusiasts who are speculating. We try to see the bigger picture, look through the fog. Complicated.

Little throwback in digging up an excerpt of something I posted back in April 2016: the first M2 cars had barely left dealerships or there was already the rumor about an S55 engine inside an M2 due for release in 2018. Time flies !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For what it's worth...

A new source stated the following on the basis of talks with BMW folks:
  • S55 in M2: planned for MY2018.
    (source: here)
Another source replied to that message to have seen the S55 engine with M4 strut brace already sitting under the hood of an M2 test mule. "2018" was indicated as launch date, but "possibly only a small series" (read: limited edition):
"I have even already seen the test mule with the engine in the M. Wanted someday to see the engine bay [...]. It struck me that it featured the M4 strut brace. Was then confirmed that the engine is coming. 2018 was mentioned to me, but possibly only a small series (M2 CSL ?). But of course there are also variants that never become a series model."
"Ich habe den Versuchsträger mit dem Motor bei der M selbst schon gesehen. Wollte mir damals [...] den Motorraum anschauen. Dabei fiel mir die Domstrebe vom M4 auf die verbaut war. Wurde mir dann bestätigt dass der Motor kommt. 2018 wurde mir genannt, aber möglicherweise nur eine kleinere Serie (M2 CSL? ). Aber natürlich gibt es auch Varianten die nie in Serie gehen."
(source: here)
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