[M2C89]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

OP specifically said in his original post: "Thanks for sharing your stories." Hence, what's wrong with everyone sharing their stories / anecdotes?

Now, had OP requested peer reviewed journal article references with only those demonstrating at least 5,000 controlled samples of instrumented testing... and THEN folks came back with anecdotes, then I would agree wholeheartedly with you, and I would also LOL at everyone.

But as it stands, it seems to me that everyone else is being pretty pro-social and posting stories as OP originally requested.

Touché... just thought some people were making incessantly factual statements like "X is the best choice." The reality is, only the OP knows what the best choice is for him.

[Artemis]

M2 Competition brakes vs. M2 CS brakes:

• EUR-spec:
  • the M2 Competition comes standard with the smaller blue-colored brakes of the M2 and M2 LCI;
  • 2NH "M Sport Brake" with silver-colored calipers are optional (popular option choice for obvious reasons);
• USA-spec:
  • the M2 Competition comes standard with the 2NH "M Sport Brake" with silver-colored calipers;
• EUR-spec and USA-spec:
  • the M2 CS comes standard with the 2NH "M Sport Brake" with red-colored calipers;
  • 2NK "M-CCB" with gold-colored calipers are optional.

The 2NH "M Sport Brake" for the M2 Competition and the M Performance Parts "BMW M Compound Brake Discs of the BMW M Sports Brake System Red" (standard feature on the M2 CS) are identical, except for the caliper color: silver for the 2NH and red for the MPP (see Q&A here). The red-colored MPP brake kit can be retrofitted on M2, M2 LCI and M2 Competition.

So:

• US market: M2 Competition and M2 CS feature the same brakes, except for the caliper color: silver vs. red;
• EUR-spec M2 Competition: the car can be ordered with the same 2NH brakes of the M2 CS, albeit with silver-colored calipers instead of red (but true that the 2NH brakes are no standard feature).

Compared with the blue brakes, the silver/red 2NH brakes are bigger and provide improved braking endurance and heat management. Aesthetically, blue brakes can 'turn green' under heavy duty. Downside of the silver/red 2NH brakes: extra weight + 18" wheels won't fit:

• Standard M2/M2C brakes (blue) (source: see here):
  • blue front caliper - 4.890 kg or 10.78 lbs
  • blue rear Caliper - 3.600 kg or 7.94 lbs
  • 380x30mm front rotor - 11.300 kg or 24.91 lbs
  • 370x24mm rear rotor - 9.300 kg or 20.50 lbs
  • = 58.180 kg or 128.26 lbs
• 2NH M Sport Brakes (silver) - M Performance Parts Brakes (red):
  • silver/red front caliper - 7.540 kg or 16.62 lbs
  • silver/red rear Caliper - 4.310 kg or 9.50 lbs
  • 400x36mm front rotor - 13.870 kg or 30.58
  • 380x30mm rear rotor - 11.300 kg or 24.91
  • = 74.040 kg or 163.23 lbs

Extra weight of the optimized silver/red brakes compared to the standard blue M2/M2C brakes = 15.86 kg or 34.97 lbs

Dedicated 2NH thread: see here.

2NH - M2 Competition:


2NH - M Performance Parts M2/M2C (BMW M Compound Brake Discs of the BMW M Sports Brake System Red):




2NH - M2 CS:

[2020M2Competition]

Originally Posted by ///Driver

Hi all,

I recently ordered an M2 Competition. I can't wait for it to arrive.

I've ordered my car with standard (blue) brakes as I have no intention of tracking the car.

I was also thinking about the maintenance aspect of the ownership - cheaper rotors and pads?

I am having a second thought. I'm not sure if I can change my order, but I thought I would ask others.

I agree with pretty much everything that has already been said

Since you have no intention of tracking the car, the blue brakes are a good choice

Cheaper replacement parts, easier to change front brake pads, considerably less weight and the ability to run 18" wheels are all worthwhile advantages in your situation

If at some point down the road you do decide to start tracking the car and find the blue brakes inadequate you can always upgrade later to a 2NH kit or something even better like the Essex/AP Racing kit

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by VTBoss302

I agree with pretty much everything that has already been said

Since you have no intention of tracking the car, the blue brakes are a good choice

Cheaper replacement parts, easier to change front brake pads, considerably less weight and the ability to run 18" wheels are all worthwhile advantages in your situation

If at some point down the road you do decide to start tracking the car and find the blue brakes inadequate you can always upgrade later to a 2NH kit or something even better like the Essex/AP Racing kit

I can rest easy knowing the ordered car is perfectly suited for my needs. Cheers!

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

But car and driver tested both cars and M2C only stops 4ft shorter than the M2 w/ standard brakes. So not a big enough difference to justify the downsides of the 2NH brakes.

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

Lol. OP probably like:

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.

My counter argument (which I've already explained, but will make myself clearer) is that if someone is tracking enough for the larger brakes to make a difference due to brake fade, they wouldn't choose the larger brakes because of all the tracking downsides they have.

1) Not being able to run 18" wheels. Which brings down the cost of wheels and tires. Making racing cheaper. And brings down the weight of the car. Meaning better handling and acceleration, but also meaning less braking force is needed to stop the car.

2) The cost of replacing rotors and pads. If you're a serious racer, you don't want racing to be expensive because you are spending so much on consumables. The cheaper things are, the more you can race.

Do you really want to spend so much more money on consumables just to prevent fade in very limited circumstances?

The answer is no. Larger brakes are not the solution. Brake cooling ducts are. This is 100x the best option, because it's a static cost. You keep the cheaper brakes, tires, and wheels, and don't end up running up costs on consumables.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

Oh, just think about the embarrassment when an Newbie M Brakes owner decided to do a 100-0 braking test comparison with a Blue brakes owner racer with track pads And track pads win 3/3 because Race car!! And braking technique of an experienced driver.

There is no way to get fade on the street, so unless you're talking track this whole argument is over. And even if you're talking track you get the right pads, fluid and maybe even cooling, so still over.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

The blue brakes are M brakes, the big ones are just going to make the car worse in the street. At the track they both suck stock, so either way you need track pads and track fluid. The smaller brakes have the benefit though of being able to fit 18 inch track wheels. If you're super serious about tracking the car at a high level you could get a better set of brakes and rotors after market, but pads and fluid are going to be enough for most people.

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors?

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

Thanks for chipping in Bumpinjeep. I already had my FOMO moment when I started this thread. Since then, the gift of knowledge and experience from several members have assured me that all will be fine with my choice.

Besides, by your humorous logic, I would need to buy the limited-edition M2 CS to appease my FOMO. Or perhaps purchase thousands of dollars worth of carbon fibre bits, including the boot wing that can be seen from another zip code.

Thanks for your concern, I will train myself not to look inside the front wheels of other M2C I come across.

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Lol. OP probably like:

Your post did make me laugh, but I do enjoy chatting about our cars. Remember, I don't have my car yet. I can't go for a drive. I can only talk about it at the moment.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

To be completely honest, as a proponent of the M2C and a potential buyer, I am not even sure the 2NH brakes are actually better. If you look at the reviews, there are actually 3 or 4 reviews that complain about the 2NH feel (and did not complain about the original blue brakes). The stock pad seems worse for the 2NH brakes. At least two owners have complained about sticking and a few with pad deposits / melting on rotors which I really haven't come across in years of lurking on the main F87 forum. At least, it seems like there are more complains given the newness of the M2C.

My main argument against the 2NH brakes are that they are overkill for street use (as even the blue are), but both the 2NH and the blue brakes are insufficient for serious track use. If you are seriously tracking it, you will want a real BBK like AP Racing or similar.

There are only the narrowest of use cases where 2NH are better than the blue brakes. In exchange for that, you deal with the huge increase in unsprung weight, inability to run 18" wheels, and stones scoring the barrel of your wheels even with 19" wheels due to the clearance.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by chris719

To be completely honest, as a proponent of the M2C and a potential buyer, I am not even sure the 2NH brakes are actually better. If you look at the reviews, there are actually 3 or 4 reviews that complain about the 2NH feel (and did not complain about the original blue brakes). The stock pad seems worse for the 2NH brakes. At least two owners have complained about sticking and a few with pad deposits / melting on rotors which I really haven't come across in years of lurking on the main F87 forum. At least, it seems like there are more complains given the newness of the M2C.

My main argument against the 2NH brakes are that they are overkill for street use (as even the blue are), but both the 2NH and the blue brakes are insufficient for serious track use. If you are seriously tracking it, you will want a real BBK like AP Racing or similar.

There are only the narrowest of use cases where 2NH are better than the blue brakes. In exchange for that, you deal with the huge increase in unsprung weight, inability to run 18" wheels, and stones scoring the barrel of your wheels even with 19" wheels due to the clearance.

Too be fair, I have experienced brake fade a couple of times on public roads, always while hitting a mountain pass at around 7 or 8 tenths. Both times it happened, I was in a car with significantly worse brakes than either set of M2 brakes, though both cars it happened in were lighter and slower too (stock accord, stock 350z.) Probably not super relevant to the discussion at hand, as it has no relation to the m2 but there is the (rare) scenario where strong fade resistance is very desirable on the street.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car.

The blue brakes and 2NH brakes are both made by Brembo for BMW M. Brembo and BMW M have a long-standing business relationship.

Last year availability for 2NH got tight due to production bottleneck issues (see dedicated thread here that made waves). Reason: unexpected higher take rate ("unerwartet hoher Nachfrage"). Brembo couldn't keep up with the high demand. 2NH could not be ordered for months and existing orders were either changed or delayed.

[Artemis]

About blue brake calipers turning green/turquoise (discoloration) as a result of heavy duty use: see for example here, here and here.

[Montaver]

Outside of looks and some increased fade resistance for the track 2NH have a lot of downsides. They are heavy, and prevent you running 18's which is where all the good tires have the most sizes. 18's are also cheaper, which if you track a lot will really add up.

My biggest issue with 2NH is the fixed calliper bridge, which makes changing the pads a complete PITA as you have to remove the calipers completely. With the standard brakes pad swaps are easy, just knock out the pins and drop them in.

Overall I wouldn't of specced them if that was an option in the US. Would of saved the money for a BBK which I'm going to have to buy anyway.

[bioman]

Are the blue brakes the same on the F80/F82? If so, they are perfectly fine for moderate track use as well. Pads and fluid are all thats needed to start.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by bioman

Are the blue brakes the same on the F80/F82? If so, they are perfectly fine for moderate track use as well. Pads and fluid are all thats needed to start.

Yes they are.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Oh, just think about the embarrassment when an Newbie M Brakes owner decided to do a 100-0 braking test comparison with a Blue brakes owner racer with track pads And track pads win 3/3 because Race car!! And braking technique of an experienced driver.

Now imagine the embarrassment when the newbie changes the pads & fluids (just like the other guy) on his Big Brakes and consistently out-brakes the small ones all over the same track!

Looks, both brakes are great on the car but we have to factor in that the car is a road car first and a fun track car second. If your'e going to let say, make a dedicated track car out of the M2C, then the brakes will need to be upgraded regardless. However, if you're going to take your street car on the track once in a while, then upgrade the pads, fluids, and lines, regardless of what brakes you have. In that retrospect, the M-Sport brakes will win 10/10 times. Throw some 763Ms, track tires, and pads/fluids/lines and you have a competent little car that you can have a blast on the track and drive home safely. Now if you're looking at setting lap times, well, that's a whole 'nother discussion.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Now imagine the embarrassment when the newbie changes the pads & fluids (just like the other guy) on his Big Brakes and consistently out-brakes the small ones all over the same track!

Until you factor in how much more time consuming it is to change 2NH pads. And factor in the better handling and acceleration of the lighter brakes... Best case scenario in your argument is they are better in 1/3 things. Braking, handling, acceleration.

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Looks, both brakes are great on the car but we have to factor in that the car is a road car first and a fun track car second. If your'e going to let say, make a dedicated track car out of the M2C, then the brakes will need to be upgraded regardless. However, if you're going to take your street car on the track once in a while, then upgrade the pads, fluids, and lines, regardless of what brakes you have. In that retrospect, the M-Sport brakes will win 10/10 times. Throw some 763Ms, track tires, and pads/fluids/lines and you have a competent little car that you can have a blast on the track and drive home safely. Now if you're looking at setting lap times, well, that's a whole 'nother discussion.

I don't understand how any of that is an argument in favor of the 2NH brakes. They don't make for a better street car that is occasionally used for the track, for a ton of reasons that were already mentioned in this thread. Especially the reason that you do not have to upgrade the brakes regardless, if you add cooling ducts.

[VIERsr]

Only I find the blue calipers horrible and totally odd with any color of the car?
They look more "Msport" than "///M".

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

LOL! Sure, the stopping distance initially is close but after a few laps, the distance is going to grow.
To the OP, personally, I think you should go for the M Brakes since this is an M car. The visual difference alone is worth the upgrade. Think of it this way, are you going to get a major case of FOMO if you see another M2C with the huge rotors? Imagine this scenario, you're walking back to your car and notice another M2C next to it in identical spec and say out loud "great minds think alike!" But then from a distance you notice something is different and go "LOOK AT THOSE FREAKIN' BRAKES!"
Then how are you going to feel?!?!?!

In all honesty, sounds like the regular brakes would work just fine for you. But FOMO is real, just saying.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but tire characteristics are a VERY big factor in determining decel(brake) performance. The one thing making contact with the road is kind of important

That said, I'd actually be interested to see design comparisons between the blue and white brake options which would include everything from line pressure, decel g's, pad mu, rotor diameter and rotor thickness, etc.