[David.m]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

When you say the short shifter eliminated the lag, is that when shifting over 6k only? Or is that at all rev ranges? For me personally, I daily drive the car and driving it at 9/10s all the time, pushing it over 6k on every shift, is not the ideal. I prefer to shift when torque starts to drop off more around 4-5k in most scenarios.

No, I was relying on shifting over 6k when I had the oem shifter and as you say that itself has issues which worsen as speed/gears increase.

With the SSK I've experimented shifting randomly between 4 & 6k rpm and conditional that the shift is fast (likely faster than I could do with the oem shifter) I have no lag, immediate power enough to light the traction control light going into 2nd and even 3rd (damp road). Now I aim to shift 5-5.5k.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by David.m

No, I was relying on shifting over 6k when I had the oem shifter and as you say that itself has issues which worsen as speed/gears increase.

With the SSK I've experimented shifting randomly between 4 & 6k rpm and conditional that the shift is fast (likely faster than I could do with the oem shifter) I have no lag, immediate power enough to light the traction control light going into 2nd and even 3rd (damp road). Now I aim to shift 5-5.5k.

Very interesting- thanks for the tip.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by widetyres

It's a scenic tour into the unknown.

Pretty much sums up what we've been doing with this.

Any help guiding us to turning off the gear shift speed control on the n55 6mt would be super appreciated! Thanks.

Turn it off? No can do.

A suggestion where to start before diving in the deep end:

Perform the Teach-In (recalibration) Procedure for the Gear Position Sensor as required when replacing the DME (or in this case flashing new maps to it). If the neutral position is out of sync, it will leave the wastegate open for up to 2 seconds following pedal tip-in.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Turn it off? No can do.

A suggestion where to start before diving in the deep end:

Perform the Teach-In (recalibration) Procedure for the Gear Position Sensor as required when replacing the DME (or in this case flashing new maps to it). If the neutral position is out of sync, it will leave the wastegate open for up to 2 seconds following pedal tip-in.

Wow - this sounds exactly like the issue we have.

Also this aligns to my experience, in that I first really noticed this issue following an ISTEP update. I put the additional lag down to the new ECU tune, but all this time it was just a re-calibration issue (fingers crossed!).

Thanks so much for the mega advice!!!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Wow - this sounds exactly like the issue we have.

Also this aligns to my experience, in that I first really noticed this issue following an ISTEP update. I put the additional lag down to the new ECU tune, but all this time it was just a re-calibration issue (fingers crossed!).

Thanks so much for the mega advice!!!

Just to reiterate, it's a smart place to start. Given all the variables (vehicle equipment/driving configurations, mods, market area) there can be, and likely are, other causes such as load-reversal dampening.

Out of curiosity, did you do the iStep update or a dealer?

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Turn it off? No can do.

A suggestion where to start before diving in the deep end:

Perform the Teach-In (recalibration) Procedure for the Gear Position Sensor as required when replacing the DME (or in this case flashing new maps to it). If the neutral position is out of sync, it will leave the wastegate open for up to 2 seconds following pedal tip-in.

How do we do that?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

How do we do that?

ISTA

Also want to add a suggestion to the US members coding "Euro MDM". Put it back as it doesn't do what most think it does.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by lemetier

ISTA

Also want to add a suggestion to the US members coding "Euro MDM". Put it back as it doesn't do what most think it does.

Is that something a dealer would need to do?

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Just to reiterate, it's a smart place to start. Given all the variables (vehicle equipment/driving configurations, mods, market area) there can be, and likely are, other causes such as load-reversal dampening.

Out of curiosity, did you do the iStep update or a dealer?

It was done at a dealers in the UK. Overall the update massively improved the car, but just in this one aspect it wasn't as sharp afterwards.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Is that something a dealer would need to do?

Have a search online - you'll be able to find the tool to download.

But, yes, a dealer could do it for you.

[Nezil]

Thanks widetyres for alerting me to the updates...

I have a copy of ISTA+ and E-Sys. I also have updated my I-Step myself a few months back (using E-Sys). My car is a 2018 LCI N55 and it had some updates shortly after purchase because of the dash recall. When I updated the I-Step, E-Sys calculates the modules that need updating and DME was not one of them. I can't remember what was now, but DME certainly wasn't.

Originally Posted by lemetier

Perform the Teach-In (recalibration) Procedure for the Gear Position Sensor as required when replacing the DME (or in this case flashing new maps to it). If the neutral position is out of sync, it will leave the wastegate open for up to 2 seconds following pedal tip-in.

I agree that this does sound like it's something that might work.

Technically the Wastegate doesn't stay open for 2 seconds, it actually stays at either 80% or at the point it was at before the shift. It also isn't open for 2 seconds following pedal tip-in, it's for 2 seconds following pedal lift off. Nevertheless it's certainly something to try.

The issue I'm having is that going all through ISTA+, I cannot find any information on this calibration ration. I searched the ISTA+ pages for information on manual gearbox and DME replacement and those don't mention it, and then did a text search for 'Teach In', which showed some results for DCT, but not for manual.

Originally Posted by lemetier

ISTA

Also want to add a suggestion to the US members coding "Euro MDM". Put it back as it doesn't do what most think it does.

Can you elaborate on this? I have Euro MDM and M2GTS coding for DSC currently. I cannot say what difference each setting made because I did them both at the same time. I know that when I had M4GTS coded it would allow a lot of slip, but would also result in DSC activations around tight corners like freeway on ramps at pretty low speed. M2GTS doesn't have that issue, and just allows a nice amount of slip. I've not tried US MDM + M2GTS; are you suggesting that would be better?

Are you also suggesting that Euro MDM may allow more slip as we've found, but also has some other side effects?

Thanks for your help by the way lemetier.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Nezil

The issue I'm having is that going all through ISTA+, I cannot find any information on this calibration ration. I searched the ISTA+ pages for information on manual gearbox and DME replacement and those don't mention it, and then did a text search for 'Teach In', which showed some results for DCT, but not for manual.

Newtis says this:

"The adjustment is performed using the "Service Function" of the BMW Diagnosis System (learn/write gear sensor)."

I don't have ISTA but am on the case and will have a try tomorrow night.

[wellvrsd]

Reading this thread last night made me paranoid that I wasn't in tune with my car if this was happening and I had never noticed. So I went for a drive today looking for it, and it's not there on my car.

I live in the country, so there are plenty of roads for me to do testing (drive erratically) on. I just kept going from 15-65mph and back down again, 2nd through 5th. I shifted at 3000 rpm, 4000 rpm, and 6000 rpm. I shifted quickly, and so slow it felt weird. I did it all in comfort mode and sport+. Not one time did the car hesitate when I pressed the throttle.

I'm not making this post to say you guys that are experiencing these things aren't feeling what you're feeling, but I don't think that what you are feeling was programmed or intended by BMW.

I think going down the path of learning sensors is a good bet. I imagine something in the car has learned bad habits.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Newtis says this:

"The adjustment is performed using the "Service Function" of the BMW Diagnosis System (learn/write gear sensor)."

I don't have ISTA but am on the case and will have a try tomorrow night.

I haven't preformed it yet, but there is a video here on how to reset the gearbox:

[Nezil]

OK guys, I did this in ISTA+...

I'm sorry I couldn't find it before when I looked; you have to actually be connected to the car to get the list of service functions to populate correctly. They do populate without being connected, but in my case at least, only auto gearbox things are listed there and that all changes when you are connected.

In any case, the teach in for zero sensor module, or whatever it's called, has both a test and a reset option. I first tested mine, and found zero to be set at 50%. 1st and 2nd gear are then tested as well and this also showed as being within limits.

So according to ISTA+, I didn't need to do a 'teach-in', but I did it anyway. The result of the 'teach-in' however was... 50%... just as it was before. I haven't driven the car yet but I don't expect any difference to be made unfortunately.

[Nezil]

In trying to find out why I couldn't see the Manual Gearbox option in ISTA+, I ended up looking at the Tech training PDF (I was looking for the Gearbox unit number, which wasn't there). While reading the headline section about drivetrain, I find the following that I found interesting:

Engine speed adaptation for a gear change (double clutch)

Engine speed adaptation function for the manual gearbox is used in F87 BMW M2. The engine speed adaptation underlines the sporty character of the new F87 BMW M2.

In addition, the engine speed adaptation is used to reduce the drag torque and also improve the driving stability in the dynamic limit range.

The engine speed adaptation includes the following components and functions:
• New gear sensor detects the gearshift request by the x-y-axis and communicates directly with the engine control unit.
• The clutch switch has two stages and communicates directly with the DME.
• Engine speed adaptation characteristic corresponds to the selected driving mode.
• There is no reverse gear switch since detection takes place by a gear sensor.

We all know that this document has several errors, but I did some more digging and found (from RealOEM) that the new gear sensor point is indeed true... the part on our manual gearbox is unique to the M2, M3 and M4. Other manual 2er, 3er and 4er cars do not have this sensor!

The second thing that caught my eye was the two stage clutch switch comment. Looking at the info for this part in ISTA+ I can see that it is true that the sensor is two stage. Here's the quote:

The clutch module's signal is employed as an input signal for the automatic engine start-stop function. 2 conditions are recognised:
• 10 percent actuation
• 90 percent actuation

If true, this could be a problem... I have the ultimate clutch pedal installed, and before that I had the BMS clutch stop. If the DME is not getting the 90% signal, could this cause the delayed issue? ISTA+ does give you the feedback of the clutch sensor when you're doing the zero-gear learn-in, but it doesn't give you the two stages, only 1.

In my opinion the clutch position sensor theory is a long shot, and though it's annoying, I'm tempted to put the stock clutch pedal and stop back in to test it. Can any of those who are claiming they don't have this issue comment on if they have the UCP or BMS stop at all?

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by Nezil

In trying to find out why I couldn't see the Manual Gearbox option in ISTA+, I ended up looking at the Tech training PDF (I was looking for the Gearbox unit number, which wasn't there). While reading the headline section about drivetrain, I find the following that I found interesting:

Engine speed adaptation for a gear change (double clutch)

Engine speed adaptation function for the manual gearbox is used in F87 BMW M2. The engine speed adaptation underlines the sporty character of the new F87 BMW M2.

In addition, the engine speed adaptation is used to reduce the drag torque and also improve the driving stability in the dynamic limit range.

The engine speed adaptation includes the following components and functions:
• New gear sensor detects the gearshift request by the x-y-axis and communicates directly with the engine control unit.
• The clutch switch has two stages and communicates directly with the DME.
• Engine speed adaptation characteristic corresponds to the selected driving mode.
• There is no reverse gear switch since detection takes place by a gear sensor.

We all know that this document has several errors, but I did some more digging and found (from RealOEM) that the new gear sensor point is indeed true... the part on our manual gearbox is unique to the M2, M3 and M4. Other manual 2er, 3er and 4er cars do not have this sensor!

The second thing that caught my eye was the two stage clutch switch comment. Looking at the info for this part in ISTA+ I can see that it is true that the sensor is two stage. Here's the quote:

The clutch module's signal is employed as an input signal for the automatic engine start-stop function. 2 conditions are recognised:
• 10 percent actuation
• 90 percent actuation

If true, this could be a problem... I have the ultimate clutch pedal installed, and before that I had the BMS clutch stop. If the DME is not getting the 90% signal, could this cause the delayed issue? ISTA+ does give you the feedback of the clutch sensor when you're doing the zero-gear learn-in, but it doesn't give you the two stages, only 1.

In my opinion the clutch position sensor theory is a long shot, and though it's annoying, I'm tempted to put the stock clutch pedal and stop back in to test it. Can any of those who are claiming they don't have this issue comment on if they have the UCP or BMS stop at all?

Great research. I have the issue and the BMS clutch stop, though I had the issue before it was installed. I have a distinct memory of driving my M2 home after buying it (250 miles) and being disappointed with the lag immediately. Like I’ve said, my M235i didn’t have this issue which seems to align with your comment that this is M2/3/4 only. I wonder if the extra sensor for our cars is there mostly for rev matching.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Great research. I have the issue and the BMS clutch stop, though I had the issue before it was installed. I have a distinct memory of driving my M2 home after buying it (250 miles) and being disappointed with the lag immediately. Like I’ve said, my M235i didn’t have this issue which seems to align with your comment that this is M2/3/4 only. I wonder if the extra sensor for our cars is there mostly for rev matching.

There is a way to code off rev-matching isn't there, which removes the need for the clutch at start. I wonder if doing that might improve things? I suspect not because it only affects the clutch and not the gearbox sensor.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by Nezil

There is a way to code off rev-matching isn't there, which removes the need for the clutch at start. I wonder if doing that might improve things? I suspect not because it only affects the clutch and not the gearbox sensor.

I believe there is. Unfortunately it’s a feature I really like... it makes daily driving a manual fun without being a chore.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Can any of those who are claiming they don't have this issue comment on if they have the UCP or BMS stop at all?

I've had the BMS clutch stop in since day 1, 2 shims.
oem clutch as there isn't anything for rhd

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by wellvrsd

Reading this thread last night made me paranoid that I wasn't in tune with my car if this was happening and I had never noticed. So I went for a drive today looking for it, and it's not there on my car.

I live in the country, so there are plenty of roads for me to do testing (drive erratically) on. I just kept going from 15-65mph and back down again, 2nd through 5th. I shifted at 3000 rpm, 4000 rpm, and 6000 rpm. I shifted quickly, and so slow it felt weird. I did it all in comfort mode and sport+. Not one time did the car hesitate when I pressed the throttle.

I'm not making this post to say you guys that are experiencing these things aren't feeling what you're feeling, but I don't think that what you are feeling was programmed or intended by BMW.

I think going down the path of learning sensors is a good bet. I imagine something in the car has learned bad habits.

For me the problem is the worst on 1-2 shifts

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Nezil

If true, this could be a problem... I have the ultimate clutch pedal installed, and before that I had the BMS clutch stop. If the DME is not getting the 90% signal, could this cause the delayed issue? ISTA+ does give you the feedback of the clutch sensor when you're doing the zero-gear learn-in, but it doesn't give you the two stages, only 1.

I don't think that this is the issue Nezil. The UCP changes the leverage point for the clutch control, not the open and closed points of the actual clutch - if they did that then there would have been alot more people complaining of issues (either clutch slip or premature clutch wear).
Also, from what I have read when previously looking into modifying the clutch for this, BMWs have been running two stage clutch signals for >10 years (ever since they moved to the magnetic clutch position sensor), so it is not M2 specific.

Re the two signals from the clutch, only one goes to the DME (see diagram). FEM is responsible for the auto stop/start function, so it is most logically receiving the 90% position signal (for the clutch down before start). The DME is only getting the 10% signal; this is so that it can control hill start and other clutch assistance related functions.