[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Aren't these weight numbers based on a fully optioned car? I believe the sunroof is approx 30-40lbs.

I believe it's based off what comes standard on the car. I think in EU markets as everyone has stated the electric seats, larger brakes and pedestrian safety are not standard. That probably accounts for a large part of the weight discrepancy between the two regions.

BMW, PROVE YOU'RE LISTENING
You're offering as standard for NA cars the driver/pedestrian safety equipment. Whatever your reason is for making these options standard, at least give us the ability to delete them when configuring the car. We check one box that waives all the driver/pedestrian safety stuff and you reduce your production costs while making customers happy. Anyone that still want's those features doesn't need to select the delete option. Win win. Do it!

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by synergist

Weight is the obvious shortcoming of the car. We are approaching Camaro ZL1 weight and that car is huge. 2-300 lbs more than my e46 M3 as well. Unfortunately auto makers are just adding more power because it is a lot cheaper than decreasing weight while adhering to stricter safety regulations.

This M2C is supposed to replace my fully sorted and pristine e46 M3, which I have down to under 3200 lbs, without making compromises to not having radio, A/C or rear seats. I am having serious doubts it's worth for me to sell it and fork out another $35k to get this car, if it is that heavy.

Originally Posted by Tag

I'm reserving judgment until we get to see some reviews, but yeah, not the news we were hoping for.

Same here

Originally Posted by Tag

I'd assume it's the 788M. The thing I find amusing about this is the 0.1% better weight distribution the M2c has over the M2. That's awesome, now if you'll excuse me I need to go look at used Porsche's.

My thinking also. I really rather have a Porsche at this point as well, but he M2 is just more practical. Maybe a used standard M2 and slapping some of those CF parts on would be the ticket after all.

Originally Posted by Tag

BMW, PROVE YOU'RE LISTENING
You're offering as standard for NA cars the driver/pedestrian safety equipment. Whatever your reason is for making these options standard, at least give us the ability to delete them when configuring the car. We check one box that waives all the driver/pedestrian safety stuff and you reduce your production costs while making customers happy. Anyone that still want's those features doesn't need to select the delete option. Win win. Do it!

Do those things really add up to that much weight? I mean we are talking 150 lbs more. I have done my share of weight removing on my track cars, and 150 lbs is very doable, but only when addressing the bigger things, like seats, battery, muffler etc.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by synergist

Weight is the obvious shortcoming of the car. We are approaching Camaro ZL1 weight and that car is huge. 2-300 lbs more than my e46 M3 as well. Unfortunately auto makers are just adding more power because it is a lot cheaper than decreasing weight while adhering to stricter safety regulations.

This M2C is supposed to replace my fully sorted and pristine e46 M3, which I have down to under 3200 lbs, without making huge compromises......still have radio, A/C, rear seats, and keeping every mod reversible.
I am starting to have serious doubts it's my best foot forward selling it, forking out another $35k to get get a M2C, if it weighs 400 lbs more. I really don't think it is possible to shed as much weight off of it, with the same parameters.

Originally Posted by Tag

I'm reserving judgment until we get to see some reviews, but yeah, not the news we were hoping for.

Same here, for now

Originally Posted by Tag

I'd assume it's the 788M. The thing I find amusing about this is the 0.1% better weight distribution the M2c has over the M2. That's awesome, now if you'll excuse me I need to go look at used Porsche's.

My thinking also. I really rather have a Porsche at this point as well, but the M2 is just more practical. Maybe a used standard M2 and slapping some of those CF parts on would be the ticket after all.

I just don't see how the weight could have gone up 150 lbs? Not if the weight distribution stayed virtually the same. If it was because of the S55 and/or the cooling, then it should be more front heavy.

[Cavpilot2k]

I think the low hanging fruit to reduce weight are no sunroof (and save $1000 to boot), MT (and save $3000), and a lightweight exhaust (funded by the savings from the previous two options).

If the MPerf. Exhaust costs more than $4k, they won't sell many. AA will sell a ton of their signature exhausts though ($3k with intermixing midpipe, I think).

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by norMcal

This M2C is supposed to replace my fully sorted and pristine e46 M3, which I have down to under 3200 lbs, without making huge compromises......still have radio, A/C, rear seats, and keeping every mod reversible.
I am starting to have serious doubts it's my best foot forward selling it, forking out another $35k to get get a M2C, if it weighs 400 lbs more. I really don't think it is possible to shed as much weight off of it, with the same parameters.

Same here, for now

My thinking also. I really rather have a Porsche at this point as well, but the M2 is just more practical. Maybe a used standard M2 and slapping some of those CF parts on would be the ticket after all.

I just don't see how the weight could have gone up 150 lbs? Not if the weight distribution stayed virtually the same. If it was because of the S55 and/or the cooling, then it should be more front heavy.

Heavy exhaust offsets the heavier cooling system to a degree.

But there's no way the S55 does NOT weigh more than the N55.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Do those things really add up to that much weight? I mean we are talking 150 lbs more. I have done my share of weight removing on my track cars, and 150 lbs is very doable, but only when addressing the bigger things, like seats, battery, muffler etc.

Even if it just reduces weight by 10lbs it's worth getting rid of it. Personally I find it all annoying and will disable it anyway, so why not lose it altogether? I know I'm not alone in this, most here don't want the safety fluff either.

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I think the low hanging fruit to reduce weight are no sunroof (and save $1000 to boot), MT (and save $3000), and a lightweight exhaust (funded by the savings from the previous two options).

The sunroof is not included in the official weight of the M2C, because it is an option. The 6MT is included, because it is standard. So, you haven't saved anything from the 150 lb. increase, unless you buy a car with the sunroof and the DCT and then remove them.

[RedCarrot]

Originally Posted by yaymitch

If you want a lighter weight car in the same category, go buy the Audi RS3.

It is so sad this statement is true.

While I would not choose an RS3 over M2, it highlights how little emphasis BMW has on keeping the M2 light despite their marketing BS.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

The sunroof is not included in the official weight of the M2C, because it is an option. The 6MT is included, because it is standard. So, you haven't saved anything from the 150 lb. increase, unless you buy a car with the sunroof and the DCT and then remove them.

True. I mean it more in terms of weight mitigation, both reduction, and avoiding adding additional weight by way of common add-ons.
A good many of the people worries about weight here were/are probably planning DCT, and therefore looking at the DCT weight column in the spec sheet.
So, if that's what you are looking at to start as your baseline, you can shave some weight by going MT.

But technically yes, you are correct.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Heavy exhaust offsets the heavier cooling system to a degree.

But there's no way the S55 does NOT weigh more than the N55.

Good point. I forgot, but I believe the weight savings on the performance exhaust is only about 30 lbs. Not to say that the M2C didn't add even more weight with the entire new exhaust system.

Originally Posted by Tag

Even if it just reduces weight by 10lbs it's worth getting rid of it. Personally I find it all annoying and will disable it anyway, so why not lose it altogether? I know I'm not alone in this, most here don't want the safety fluff either.

Agreed, I am a firm believer in all weight reductions. It is the sum of them that matter. Have had many people laugh at me for looking for a pound here or there, and in the end my car is 250 lbs lighter. Just not sure it is doable on this car, but I will definitely order it without anything unnecessary.

Originally Posted by RedCarrot

It is so sad this statement is true.

While I would not choose an RS3 over M2, it highlights how little emphasis BMW has on keeping the M2 light despite their marketing BS.

It is indeed a sad day, when an Audi, with Quattro, is lighter than a BMW. Although weight distribution is still not in their favor, usually.

BMW artificially makes their cars heavier in the rear. I'm sure you can loose a few things out of the trunk, get lighter battery and muffler and as a result come in lighter than the RS3, but there goes the 50/50 weight thing they like to advertise. Then again 52/48 and less weight might still be better.

[Dermator]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

The sunroof is not included in the official weight of the M2C, because it is an option. The 6MT is included, because it is standard. So, you haven't saved anything from the 150 lb. increase, unless you buy a car with the sunroof and the DCT and then remove them.

Are the bigger brakes standard? I assume they contribute with an additional 15-16 kg (33-35 lbs).

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1307736

[Spa2k]

Yet to be officially announced.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by RedCarrot

It is so sad this statement is true.

While I would not choose an RS3 over M2, it highlights how little emphasis BMW has on keeping the M2 light despite their marketing BS.

I am sure BMW is concerned about the weight. They were just more concerned about price point. As others have said, if they had gone the other direction, all would be up in arms about the price.

That being said, I really do not get the standard electric seats. That is one piece of low hanging fruit that actually saves on the price point.

[boostspoon]

I’m going to easily identify the people part of this weight reduction group.

Why not consider lighter seats, lighter full tbe exhaust, lighter bumper beams (oem or aftermarket spec). Remove your emergency floor jack and kit - rather remove that than to spend $1300 on a battery (I’m sure there are better cost effective battery options)

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

U.S. figures are for basic vehicle without options. I don't know what the standard is elsewhere.

No, the legally requied US figures must be for the car must include any option expected to be in 33% or more of vehicles sold. In addition, the car must be full capacity for fuel, oil, and coolant.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

The sunroof is not included in the official weight of the M2C, because it is an option. The 6MT is included, because it is standard. So, you haven't saved anything from the 150 lb. increase, unless you buy a car with the sunroof and the DCT and then remove them.

If BMW expects 33% or more M2C to be sold with sunroofs, then it must be included in the official US weight specification.

[M-Pilot]

I came up with this thread (US Curb and EU Kerb weights, an attempt at clarifying the differences.) recently and was surprised to see the following statements:

"Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold."

"According to US legislation curb weight shall include options that is expected to be installed in at least 33% of vehicles sold."

Then I did little more research and confirmed it is indeed true. Here are my sources:

- https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1832-01
- Another CFR through Google Books

I don't know if I remember this correctly and I might very well be wrong but AFAIK, it wasn't possible to order a 2016 M2 in the US with the sunroof. Therefore, my thinking is that it was never factored into the US curb weight. Even if BMW might have updated the US curb weight of M2 in their legal documents after they offered the sunroof as an option, they never changed weight figures on their website. Anyways, long story short, I think there is a chance that the US curb weight of M2C might include the sunroof as well and apples-to-apples weight comparison between M2 and M2C might as well be around ~100lbs according to the curb weight calculation in US legislation.

Again, this is all based on my assumption that sunroof was not a standard or optional equipment on the first model year (2016) of the M2 in the US

Edit: I just verified thru old forum posts that moonroof was not offered in 2016 M2 in the US either as standard or optional equipment. This just confirms that the US curb weight of the original M2 doesn't account for the moonroof for sure and there is a good chance M2C curb weight factors in the moonroof (hence the real weight difference between two models might be indeed around 100lbs).

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

No, the legally requied US figures must be for the car must include any option expected to be in 33% or more of vehicles sold. In addition, the car must be full capacity for fuel, oil, and coolant.

Originally Posted by CSBM5

If BMW expects 33% or more M2C to be sold with sunroofs, then it must be included in the official US weight specification.

I was just typing the same thing. I found the same info as well

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

I am sure BMW is concerned about the weight. They were just more concerned about price point. As others have said, if they had gone the other direction, all would be up in arms about the price.

That being said, I really do not get the standard electric seats. That is one piece of low hanging fruit that actually saves on the price point.

For sure it would save cost and weight as well, although I recently learned that it isn't as much as I thought, weight wise. It's only about 5 lbs per seat on the 46 M3, not sure how much it is on this car, but I doubt it amounts to more than even 20 lbs total for both seats. Stock seats are just heavy, regardless of manual or electric. The real weight savings is in the construction. A Recaro Sportster CS will save you more than just going to a manual, but then the price is stupid high on them. Good thing is I already have a set ;-), but wasn't really planing on installing them on the M2.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I was just typing the same thing. I found the same info as well

Boss330 exhaustively covered weight comparisons between EU and USA years ago in the F80 section.

One example that hits close to home, is the E90 M3. The USA weight specified was required to be shown with sunroof and DCT, which added together equal almost 100lbs compared to a 6MT slicktop.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by norMcal

This M2C is supposed to replace my fully sorted and pristine e46 M3, which I have down to under 3200 lbs, without making huge compromises......still have radio, A/C, rear seats, and keeping every mod reversible.
I am starting to have serious doubts it's my best foot forward selling it, forking out another $35k to get get a M2C, if it weighs 400 lbs more. I really don't think it is possible to shed as much weight off of it, with the same parameters.



Same here, for now




My thinking also. I really rather have a Porsche at this point as well, but the M2 is just more practical. Maybe a used standard M2 and slapping some of those CF parts on would be the ticket after all.

I just don't see how the weight could have gone up 150 lbs? Not if the weight distribution stayed virtually the same. If it was because of the S55 and/or the cooling, then it should be more front heavy.

Does it really matter? There are kids with driver's licenses younger than 2001 E46 M3s. It is a great car but the performance in all ways pales in comparison to an M2. No car weighs what they did in 2001. A 2001 Mustang weighed just over 3000 lbs. An M2C will smoke any E46 on the track and won't have it's subframe torn up either. If you get an M2C you will love it I'm sure. If weight is a priority you have to look at Porsche, and even those gained some weight in the past decade.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Tag

You can find more accurate numbers for CF parts here.

I don't know if an AGM battery makes sense. Sure it reduces weight, but in the wrong part. The car is nose heavy, trimming off weight in the rear would lead to more wheel spin and oversteer. It needs weight reduced from the front.

Yes, ideally you would want to get rid of as much weight as possible from the front of the car. However, as long as you don't make the weight distribution worse, it should be fine IMO. In other words, adding lithium battery and CF hood & fenders at the same time should keep the WD pretty much the same (~40lbs savings in the front vs ~30lbs savings in the rear).