[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by mmmpassion

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1322317
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1375357

A few incidences of faulty throttle response is not indicative of a design issue of turbo lag.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Vintage

Whatever. The M4 CS is silly at that price. $116 Euros!!! Save a hundred lbs., get a few more hp, and add 50% to the base price???? Sorry, I will try to be less negative in the future but if the M2 CS follows the same recipe I would be surprised if it sells well. Maybe I am marginalizing a new motor . . . if that happens.

I think the M2 CS would sell out at up to US$90K if it is seen as a very limited production vehicle, and if it earns rave reviews as expected... maybe not to forum members here, but there are enough people with more money than brains out there (or to whom money is not a consideration).

But it will more likely be in the US$80K range based on the M4 CS pricing.

[YasM4]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Ah, remember M2 CS will be an entirely different car than the standard M2. Not just its engine but it's nature too.

Hi Scott,

Any hope for a manual version of the M2CS? I was hoping to upgrade from my 2016 M4 manual to a manual M4CS but i was crushed to learn that it would only be available with flappy paddles.

Any hope at all??

[RPM2-85]

Soooooooo I guess I dont look like an idiot after all. Waiting on anything on speculation is a gamble in life. A bird in the hand.....

Now all the enthusiasts are whining because they FINALLY figured out the M2 was for you all. A cheap way to get an unreal M car. They did it, and the price is rising.

Now comes the gouging for the non-enthusiast bros with more money than sense. I feel bad for anyone who waited for this and missed out on a year of great driving...

[GimmeanM]

Here's how I see it....

I really hope for a 6MT. I don't think it's going to happen based on what info has been leaked and based on M4CS spec.

That being said, I'll likely still get it (provided nothing else is too far out of wack).

All of the dread over DCT makes me think about the M3 CSL which as we know only came in SMGII, which when compared to today's double clutch transmissions is obviously a dinosaur. I'm not try to be sarcastic, but do you think there was as much outrage then over the lack of an MT option? I honestly don't know; I was too young then, not paying attention.

All I know is that if the M2CS follows suit of the M4CS and is "limited production" or "low production" (however you want to describe it) that probably means most stores get a couple units at most. I can see that day coming where the 1 or 2 cars arrives and I think I would regret being on the outside looking in.

That's how I see it. Would you walk away from it if that was the only thing you didn't like about the car?


.....but please make a 6MT

[M2 CSL]

The rumor is that the M2 CS will be DCT and the GTS will be the "brand shaper" manual for true driving enthusiasts.

But more importantly, having it manual will slow down the tested speeds so it doesn't step on the M4 GTS toes.

[medphysdave]

The nice part about a low run car is that your buyers remorse won't sting as much if you change your mind. Probably be able to drive it for a bit, and sell it for what you paid. Maybe a little more.

I'm still holding out for the CS. Glad I don't have to choose a transmission.

[W///]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Here's how I see it....

I really hope for a 6MT. I don't think it's going to happen based on what info has been leaked and based on M4CS spec.

That being said, I'll likely still get it (provided nothing else is too far out of wack).

All of the dread over DCT makes me think about the M3 CSL which as we know only came in SMGII, which when compared to today's double clutch transmissions is obviously a dinosaur. I'm not try to be sarcastic, but do you think there was as much outrage then over the lack of an MT option? I honestly don't know; I was too young then, not paying attention.

All I know is that if the M2CS follows suit of the M4CS and is "limited production" or "low production" (however you want to describe it) that probably means most stores get a couple units at most. I can see that day coming where the 1 or 2 cars arrives and I think I would regret being on the outside looking in.

That's how I see it. Would you walk away from it if that was the only thing you didn't like about the car?


.....but please make a 6MT

Yes, I'd walk away from something as important as transmission choice. BMW offering SMG on the CSL did cause a stir. Hell, go back and look at Clarkson's review.

Do I have any doubt the M2CS is going to be a great car? No, not really. It's going to be wonderful, and if it's truly "limited", it'll give it even more of an aura. It'll also hold its value very well

Would I want one? Don't think so. Just as with the E46 M3, if I had a choice (and the budget), I'd rather turn a base E46 into a wannabe CSL with all OEM parts minus the trans. Plenty of people have done that very same thing.

Having said that, I 100% understand why the GTS is DCT only. And if there will be such a thing as a CSL that sits even higher than the GTS, then that would also be DCT only.

I was just hoping that CS would be more like a Comp Pack+++, with 6MT available. Oh well, can't please everyone.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Verdi

I thought the 1M and the M2 already had the same weight.

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/fiche3711-bmw-1m.htm
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/fiche5974-bmw-m2.htm

That is, if you don't spec it with electric seats, DCT and glass roof...

See any actual car test of the M2 and find the as tested curb weight?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Here's how I see it....

I really hope for a 6MT. I don't think it's going to happen based on what info has been leaked and based on M4CS spec.

That being said, I'll likely still get it (provided nothing else is too far out of wack).

All of the dread over DCT makes me think about the M3 CSL which as we know only came in SMGII, which when compared to today's double clutch transmissions is obviously a dinosaur. I'm not try to be sarcastic, but do you think there was as much outrage then over the lack of an MT option? I honestly don't know; I was too young then, not paying attention.

All I know is that if the M2CS follows suit of the M4CS and is "limited production" or "low production" (however you want to describe it) that probably means most stores get a couple units at most. I can see that day coming where the 1 or 2 cars arrives and I think I would regret being on the outside looking in.

That's how I see it. Would you walk away from it if that was the only thing you didn't like about the car?


.....but please make a 6MT

yeah.. like the price..

As far as the M3 CSL... the SMG was new tech... everyone was all enamored with the tech.. Now.. realization has kicked into the masses that no matter the fancy name.. SMG.. DCT.... Tiptronic... PDK.. they all mean the same thing - AUTOMATIC. There is a reason that every thread devolves into the manual vs AUTO discussion.. because manufacturers... particularly GERMAN ones.. have been trying to completely get rid of manuals and tell customers that " no one wants manual anymore"..

However.. it seems like every forum has a " should I get manual or DCT" thread going.. which is indicative of the fact that BUYERs do not want AUTOMATIC only.... and even many DCT buyers are questioning if they should get a DCT on their sportscar, sports coupe, or sedan.

Give credit to Porsche. which has recently QUICKLY pivoted back to offering manuals and even made some models MANUAL only.. something that BMW has not done since 2010 or so with the 1M.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm still expecting the M2 CS with all options other than the CCB to just break 70k.

I like how the people who jumped on the wait list early will be rewarded with an exclusive color.

The mention of the M2 CS in 2019 makes me wonder if the expected order of CS and GTS will be flipped to reflect how they were released for the M4. Or maybe the M2 just won't get a GTS model.

It certainly seems like the CS version is not targeted at replacing the base version.

Overall, I like it.

NOPE. they will leave the M2 GTS as a MOTORSPORT model for the end. ( See Cayman GT4 ...See 911 R.. See BMW E30 M3 Sport Evo )

Let all the people that want a SOFT car .. for daily driving. go with the lesser models.. So by all means.. get the CS people out in front of the M2 GTS...
The CS line is intended for the NON TRACK ORIENTED driver. I want no one left but hardcore MOTORSPORT people to get an M2 GTS.

the M4/M3 have a VERY long life cycle In comparison to the M2...and therefore the M4 GTS came out in what is the middle of that cycle.

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

The rumor is that the M2 CS will be DCT and the GTS will be the "brand shaper" manual for true driving enthusiasts.

But more importantly, having it manual will slow down the tested speeds so it doesn't step on the M4 GTS toes.

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

It stands to reason that it should have the same brakes as the F80 (and base M2) with an option for CCB.

Not from the spy shots, it doesn't.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by bim2er

Not from the spy shots, it doesn't.

How do you figure? I've seen the spy shots too. Why test regular steel brakes that are already known to work on that chassis and with that much power? Should follow suit as the M4CS...CCB as an option, no?

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

yeah.. like the price..

As far as the M3 CSL... the SMG was new tech... everyone was all enamored with the tech.. Now.. realization has kicked into the masses that no matter the fancy name.. SMG.. DCT.... Tiptronic... PDK.. they all mean the same thing - AUTOMATIC. There is a reason that every thread devolves into the manual vs AUTO discussion.. because manufacturers... particularly GERMAN ones.. have been trying to completely get rid of manuals and tell customers that " no one wants manual anymore"..

However.. it seems like every forum has a " should I get manual or DCT" thread going.. which is indicative of the fact that BUYERs do not want AUTOMATIC only.... and even many DCT buyers are questioning if they should get a DCT on their sportscar, sports coupe, or sedan.

Give credit to Porsche. which has recently QUICKLY pivoted back to offering manuals and even made some models MANUAL only.. something that BMW has not done since 2010 or so with the 1M.

Yeah...price! if M4CS is ~$100k then hopefully M2CS is ~$75 ~$80k.
I see your points and for the most part I agree. I understand that view, and honestly I'm hoping that it has the choice. I would certainly go MT if there was an option. However I think there is something to be said for a car that is *designed* around having a certain transmission...to a degree...but just slap the F80's MT in there..."How hard can it be?"

It is unfortunate that they have to play the lap time game. On stage there was less technical talk about the M4CS's spec, yet he was very clear to claim it's 'ring time. Who cares? That's what the GTS is for, right? But since evvvveryone seems to think that time is an all important number that's part of the reason we are here with DCT cars.

Considering "my would you walk away" question...

Not news perse, but he said "we continue to strive toward our goal of sustainable mobility and we will electrify all BMW group brands and model series..." (@ 25:20). I know every generation can claim "last of the xxxx" and I am rather young, but I think we are at a unique pivotal time in transportation trends. The M cars being made right now may, in some model segments, be the last gasoline only or the last RWD cars. Not that this mentality is my reason for buying but it is interesting to think about nonetheless.

I hear you on the M2GTS, but I'm still skeptical it's coming. If it does and comes with MT as an option that seems a little backwards compared to to the M4, no? And I don't see them going away from those almighty lap time claims.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Yeah...price! if M4CS is ~$100k then hopefully M2CS is ~$75 ~$80k.
I see your points and for the most part I agree. I understand that view, and honestly I'm hoping that it has the choice. I would certainly go MT if there was an option. However I think there is something to be said for a car that is *designed* around having a certain transmission...to a degree...but just slap the F80's MT in there..."How hard can it be?"

It is unfortunate that they have to play the lap time game. On stage there was less technical talk about the M4CS's spec, yet he was very clear to claim it's 'ring time. Who cares? That's what the GTS is for, right? But since evvvveryone seems to think that time is an all important number that's part of the reason we are here with DCT cars.

Considering "my would you walk away" question...

Not news perse, but he said "we continue to strive toward our goal of sustainable mobility and we will electrify all BMW group brands and model series..." (@ 25:20). I know every generation can claim "last of the xxxx" and I am rather young, but I think we are at a unique pivotal time in transportation trends. The M cars being made right now may, in some model segments, be the last gasoline only or the last RWD cars. Not that this mentality is my reason for buying but it is interesting to think about nonetheless.

I hear you on the M2GTS, but I'm still skeptical it's coming. If it does and comes with MT as an option that seems a little backwards compared to to the M4, no? And I don't see them going away from those almighty lap time claims.

my hope for a manual (in a CSL or GTS ) rests on the following

1- likely direct competitor in the Cayman GT 4 (version 2) - which was manual in first gen.
2- M2 GTS in manual would be slower than the M4 GTS (and perhaps M4CS) , allowing those models to be the BMW lap time queens.
3- differentiation between mission CS (street car - DCT- automatic) and GTS (track/motorsport version)
4- retro homage towards the 1M - 740 vehicles all manual- which sold out immediately.

[bimmer4life24]

So it appears the M4 CS will cost between $90k-$95k. Let's meet in the middle and say $92.5k for the m4 CS. That's a 40% increase over the base m4!!

Now let's translate that to the M2: $52.5k for the base m2 now. We know when the LCI rolls out there will be another increase...so let's say $53k for the base m2. Add 40% to that for the m2 CS and we get........~$74k (LLLLOOOOLLLL)

Sorry, BMW. You won't suck me in for a $74k CS model when I can have an already fantastic M2 for $20k less. Not worth it.

P.S. If this thing will cost around $74k, there is no way an LCI is cancelled . There will definitely be two m2 models in production (or at least through model year 2018) since the m2 CS is in a completely different price market. No way BMW stops producing the base M2 (would lose out on selling A LOT of units. CS just looks like some quick revenue for BMW IMHO.

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

How do you figure? I've seen the spy shots too. Why test regular steel brakes that are already known to work on that chassis and with that much power? Should follow suit as the M4CS...CCB as an option, no?

The attached spy shot listed as a M2 CS appears to shows disks that look quite a bit larger than the stock disks with grey calipers rather than the blue calipers in production for the current M2. The exhaust pipe is slanted like an S55 exhaust.

Just what I believe I see.

From Jason's post

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1351511

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

The rumor is that the M2 CS will be DCT and the GTS will be the "brand shaper" manual for true driving enthusiasts.

But more importantly, having it manual will slow down the tested speeds so it doesn't step on the M4 GTS toes.

So everything desperate people hope and wishe for becomes a rumor now ??

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by bimmer4life24

So it appears the M4 CS will cost between $90k-$95k. Let's meet in the middle and say $92.5k for the m4 CS. That's a 40% increase over the base m4!!

How are you saying it will be $90K-$95K. I was under the assumption that it was more like ~$105K based on it's Euro Price.

Is there some link or some other source where you're getting that number from. I am curious because most people seem to agree that $100K is too much money for the M4 CS.

[bimmer4life24]

Originally Posted by Gatte

How are you saying it will be $90K-$95K. I was under the assumption that it was more like ~$105K based on it's Euro Price.

Is there some link or some other source where you're getting that number from. I am curious because most people seem to agree that $100K is too much money for the M4 CS.

Honestly, I'm just using a best case scenario. Anything higher is even worse!

[BIMMERGUY91]

I think at this point I'm just hoping the LCI M2 base will have a tuned B58 engine and I will probably just order that with 0 options.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

The rumor is that the M2 CS will be DCT and the GTS will be the "brand shaper" manual for true driving enthusiasts.

But more importantly, having it manual will slow down the tested speeds so it doesn't step on the M4 GTS toes.

Sounds perfect. If this scenario is realized, I will transfer my #1 spot to GTS. I am completely out on the CS (or any car) if it is auto tranny.