[cassey]

There were MT cars that were built without a tachometer. You just have to "feel" the shift points. I've also driven a car with a broken speedometer. You just get used to it.

[Captain Oblivious]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Do you have a MT or AT? If someone has never known sat in an E9x and driven the MT how would they correctly correlate the proper shift point to RPMs without a tach? At this stage there's no reference point, so they cant use the engine sound. How would a deaf person be able use the MT? Would you remove the AT from their options list?

Are you telling me you stare at the tach on every shift? Or that you've never shifted a car with music playing loudly while looking at the road? Do you have any feeling in your feet? Are you really saying that you can't shift a car without a tach or engine noise? You've never driven an old manual junker without a tach?

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Captain Oblivious

Are you telling me you stare at the tach on every shift? Or that you've never shifted a car with music playing loudly while looking at the road?"

Oblivious. Appropriate.

You did not read my reply thoroughly. The scenario I presented is shifting in a vehicle with no feedback and/or previous reference point.

Originally Posted by Captain Oblivious

Do you have any feeling in your feet? Are you really saying that you can't shift a car without a tach or engine noise?

You mean "without a tach and engine noise"? Only if I already had another point of reference (speed, vibration, etc), which means Ive driven the vehicle before. All vehicles are different. The variation of rpm curves, gear ratios, differential and even tire sizes determines the optimum shift points.

Do you have a pyschic connection with all vehicles you have never driven? What if the vehicle is a 7 speed? What if its a truck with 10 or more? Youve driven all these before or do you expect everyone to believe you are yoda?

quote=Captain Oblivious;5752641]You've never driven an old manual junker without a tach?[/quote]

Ive driven an MT with no clutch. Yes, it can be done. Sure you can "feel" your way through it but its hard on the synchros. I also knew the vehicle and where the RPMs would match gears. 1st gear was an event..

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Takashi

If a driver who claims to be good at MT and cannot shift the car without visual confirmation from the tach, such drivers should not even claim to be good MT driver. The only time one should rely on the tach is when he or she is unfamilar with a new car and need to experiment when to shift.

Is that not the scenario I presented?

Originally Posted by Takashi

What happens if the tach breaks down?
"Oh no, sorry honey I can't drive you to the grocery store because the tach in my car no longer works..." You mentioned about deaf people not able to drive MT because they can't hear engine noise. Can you hear the sound of yoru engine when you accelerate / rev up your car?

Is there a reading comprehension issue here? How would a deaf person introduced to a new vehicle, be able to establish an alternate reference without first referencing the tach? Speed and/or vibration are the only other ones available, but if you dont know what speed/vibration correlates to RPMs then how do you know if you are shifting too soon or too late beyond a stall or over-rev respectively?

Originally Posted by Takashi

Most newer cars are relatively quiet and you can't really hear anything coming from the engine during normal driving conditions.

This is completely exaggerated. I don't care if its a Rolls, you can still hear the engine during acceleration/deceleration unless you are deaf.

Originally Posted by Takashi

If that is the case, individuals cannot operate a quiet MT car if there is no tach present.

Sure they can, if the can first establish an alternative reference point.

Originally Posted by Takashi

Perhaps you should go back and relearn how to drive a MT car and follow the Captain's advice.

You need to be cautious to whom you offer "advice". Perhaps you should take a reading comprehension class..

[Richwm]

I use a ScanGauge-II mostly for coolant temp and my real speed not the lie on the speedo.


http://www.scangauge.com/

[Captain Oblivious]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Oblivious. Appropriate.

You did not read my reply thoroughly. The scenario I presented is shifting in a vehicle with no feedback and/or previous reference point.

That is what I was getting at: even without a tach and engine noise, I feel that I still have enough feedback to shift. Regardless, I don't want to argue, let's just agree to disagree.

Or maybe (in character): WAIT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS?

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Captain Oblivious

That is what I was getting at: even without a tach and engine noise, I feel that I still have enough feedback to shift.

So do I and I understand and agree with that point. The issue however is how to first establish that alternative (relative to a tach) feedback without a tach. Its possible through alot of experimentation but will tend to be very hard on the transmission.

Originally Posted by Captain Oblivious

Regardless, I don't want to argue, let's just agree to disagree.

Agreed.

[Tee-Dub]

How many bmw's have you guys that are arguing against a temp gauge owned? How many were past warranty? Every, repeat, EVERY BMW I've owned has needed a cooling system overhaul at one point. I was baffled by the lack of a dipstick since I do most of my own maintenance. However, the missing temp gauge blew my mind. Seriously, cars that are high performance, tend to run hotter than the average car, and have plastic cooling systems known to grenade without warning and they delete the temp gauge? Crazy.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by Tee-Dub

How many bmw's have you guys that are arguing against a temp gauge owned? How many were past warranty? Every, repeat, EVERY BMW I've owned has needed a cooling system overhaul at one point. I was baffled by the lack of a dipstick since I do most of my own maintenance. However, the missing temp gauge blew my mind. Seriously, cars that are high performance, tend to run hotter than the average car, and have plastic cooling systems known to grenade without warning and they delete the temp gauge? Crazy.

+1 my E46's coolant expansion tank cracked last week. Cheap plastic parts in a cooling system just fail out of the blue.

[Tee-Dub]

Rich, is that "scangauge" pretty accurate? Real time info? Where do you have it in the car? Is it wireless? Looks like a cool toy for only $169.

Just looked at their website. Looks like it is corded, but still not bad! I'd like to know where you have yours mounted.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by Tee-Dub

Rich, is that "scangauge" pretty accurate? Real time info? Where do you have it in the car? Is it wireless? Looks like a cool toy for only $169.

Just looked at their website. Looks like it is corded, but still not bad! I'd like to know where you have yours mounted.

Its on top of my rear view mirror now, but I have moved it a few times last time I had it on top of my center channel speaker on the dash.

[micah]

Originally Posted by Richwm

Its on top of my rear view mirror now, but I have moved it a few times last time I had it on top of my center channel speaker on the dash.

If you have a chance to post a picture of that, I'd appreciate it.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Tee-Dub

How many bmw's have you guys that are arguing against a temp gauge owned? How many were past warranty? Every, repeat, EVERY BMW I've owned has needed a cooling system overhaul at one point. I was baffled by the lack of a dipstick since I do most of my own maintenance. However, the missing temp gauge blew my mind. Seriously, cars that are high performance, tend to run hotter than the average car, and have plastic cooling systems known to grenade without warning and they delete the temp gauge? Crazy.

It's a moot point, really. Every BMW built since the early 90s have a coolant temp gauge that's BUFFERED. Meaning that once it reaches operating temperature, it stays DEAD CENTER regardless of how hot the engine and coolant temperature really is, until it's about to go kaboom. So even if the coolant temperature gauge is present, it's USELESS. At least right now BMW doesn't pretend to care what the customer need to see, and just gives you two warnings: Your engine is about to blow up, and your engine is PAST blowing up, which serves the same purpose as the buffered coolant gauge ANYWAY.

Which leads me to believe the next step for BMW would be to buffer the oil temp gauge as well or remove it all together, given how many people b*tched and complained that their oil temp gauge is at 260 degrees.

[Tee-Dub]

So if the scan gauge reads the info from OBDII is it real temp?

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by Richwm

I use a ScanGauge-II mostly for coolant temp and my real speed not the lie on the speedo.


http://www.scangauge.com/

Ordered.

Txs ... about exactly what I wanted - and more.

[Tag]

My car is an 07 and has a temp gauge. Are you saying yours does not?

When your car gets too hot it automatically goes into limp mode so I don't see the issue here???

[micah]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Ordered.

Txs ... about exactly what I wanted - and more.

Just noticed amazon.com is selling this for $10 off the ScanGuage.com site price, with free shipping if you're an Amazon Prime (maybe even if you're not)

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by micah

Just noticed amazon.com is selling this for $10 off the ScanGuage.com site price, with free shipping if you're an Amazon Prime (maybe even if you're not)

Amazon.com won't sell to Canada (amazon.ca does but SG not listed).

I also checked ebay. No big deal.

My car is an 07 and has a temp gauge. Are you saying yours does not?

When your car gets too hot it automatically goes into limp mode so I don't see the issue here???

Most E90 N52 does not have a temp gauge. And when they do, it is not a "real one". Read above.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by micah

If you have a chance to post a picture of that, I'd appreciate it.

Here is it mounted on the dash and im still looking for the other pictures.

[Richwm]

Here are some other ones.

[micah]

Originally Posted by Richwm

Here are some other ones.

Thanks, I was wondering if I could make it fit with the premium package mirror, and you have proven it can be done.

[Saintor]

My temp stays around 175-205.... I thought it would be higher than that.