05-01-2019, 08:22 AM | #45 | |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
Quote:
feel free to add it here https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1584072 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 08:26 AM | #46 | |
Major
1042
Rep 1,345
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 08:27 AM | #47 |
“One finds limits by pushing them”
123
Rep 529
Posts |
I think the part number for the wheel is the same because it mounts to the car the same - steering wheel thickness perhaps not relevant for part#.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 08:34 AM | #48 |
Major
1042
Rep 1,345
Posts |
You guys have also been on this board for a long time. When you drive and compare, you'll notice the difference. I don't know if it's the compression or rebound settings, but the suspension feels different to me. I feel like the compression dampening is softer. Most of the other suspension tuning will effect ultimate handling and turn in, but that's not the factor here. There won't be any scientific evidence to offer, because this is a subjective evaluation. It also doesn't surprise me that BMW relaxed the suspension, the OG car was really stiff. I've directly compared my M2C back to back with a McLaren 570S and a 2018 GT3. Both of those cars have a smoother, more composed ride than even my M2C. I suspect BMW reacted to comments about the OG car and made changes.
|
05-01-2019, 08:45 AM | #49 | |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=21526773670 For the record, I don't care if the M2C and M2 actually have different suspension - I'm just questioning the reuse of a part number number for functionally different parts (different spring rates, different rebound/compression/whatever shocks) when BMW otherwise uses part# versioning all over the place. They also use 2 different part#s for front springs for manual vs DCT (I've read a 55lb difference in the 2 transmissions) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 09:21 AM | #50 |
Banned
757
Rep 2,149
Posts |
The whole "different suspension" debate is pointless unless someone can get two new shocks and test them for various differences.
Which means finding a new old stock m2 shock and verifying it's in fact a NOS shock. Then getting a m2c shock, and verifying it's a new m2c shock and not a leftover inventory NOS m2 shock. Which will be impossible since they share the same part numbers. I don't think it's as simple as finding a M2, and taking it's shock off to compare to a M2C shock. Let's say we find a M2 with 6000 miles on it and a M2C with 6000 miles on it, that would be the closest we can get to having both cars with the same wear and tear. But there are still two problems with that. 1)was one car driven harder than the other, causing more wear and tear to it's shocks. and 2) we'd still have the variable of the M2 shock being older. Which I don't know how much shocks degrade over time. We would also need manufacturing tolerances from the factory. Let's say BMW puts each shock through testing before it's sent to be put on a car. Well, what are the tolerances for a shock to pass vs fail. If they have a standard of something like "+/- 5% from this value is good" Well then, how do we know the differences we'd see in our independent shock test wouldn't be due to differences in acceptable tolerances from the factory. There is also the margin of error in testing equipment. Which is mitigated by taking a bunch of tests and averaging them out. And that's just shocks. Who's to say the difference isn't in the bushings or something else. Which would have to be tested too. So yea, since none of this testing is possible and will ever happen... the whole "different suspensions" argument is pointless and unverifiable. Which is unfortunate because not knowing causes more headaches than anything. btw, I'm the one who went out and measured the M2 vs M2C steering wheel. That was simple compared to this haha. |
Appreciate
1
dharo1215.00 |
05-01-2019, 09:48 AM | #51 |
this is the way
18468
Rep 8,589
Posts |
<rant>
I believe everyone that the M2c rides better than the M2. That's not my argument. The question is why? BMW would not change the functionality of a critical component and give it the same part number. Why? Because you do not mix matched spring and damper rates with other spring and damper rates. Doing so would upset the ride characteristics of the car and could even result in an accident. Example, an OG M2 has a blown out strut, you get the same PN strut which by some peoples theory has been "revised and improved" and install it. You now have a mismatch in your suspension. BMW would never do that. And before someone comments on replacing both struts, suspensions are tuned to all four corners meaning if you change the way the front is tuned you must change the rear shocks and springs to match and "go with the flow" as the suspension travels, otherwise it upsets the cars balance and can cause unpredictable and dangerous behavior. Have heard the steering wheel diameter argument where the M2c is 1mm thinner in diameter, but that is has the same PN. BFD, that's not going to affect anything with the cars handling or performance. BMW has lots of parts like that, but they are not critical or affect anything else. </rant> |
05-01-2019, 09:59 AM | #52 | |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
Quote:
FalconUSAF - M2C is 4 1/2 inches (is it not clear how this was measured) Anthony1s - M2 is 4 7/16 Anthony1s - M2C is 4 6/16 CTSean - M2 is 4 1/2 (measured in the same spot Anthony did) If I measure in a different spot I get 4 7/16 Granted, 4 datapoints is not a statistic, but I'd call that margin of error vs a change in design. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 10:19 AM | #53 | ||
Luxury at the redline :)
9108
Rep 7,563
Posts |
Quote:
At this point, I was just spitballing ideas and see which one sticks This suspension mystery is quite intriguing.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 11:05 AM | #55 | |
Major General
4455
Rep 7,594
Posts
Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
|
Quote:
Preface: I have owned a 2017 M2 and own a 2019 M2C Yes, the M2C rides much smother. No, BMW didn't change the parts on the suspension. As TAG said: Can you imagine mix matched spring and damper rates? LIABILITY ISSUE! The M2C's weight, struct brace, etc. --> Changed the driving/ride characteristics. The steering wheel change... people that doesn't affect your safety!? CMON
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange) |
|
Appreciate
1
Tag18468.00 |
05-01-2019, 11:08 AM | #56 | |
Banned
757
Rep 2,149
Posts |
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I would much rather be proved wrong and there be no change in the wheels. Just trying to make sure data is correct and consistent. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 11:50 AM | #57 | |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
Quote:
Re-remeasuring now, being as disciplined as possible with the tools available, measuring from the 1" mark to remove the end as a variable, then confirming my measurement against a precision 6 inch ruler (which I admit introduces some variablility) I get 4 15/32". I have the pics if you really want them. Like I said in the other thread, I apologize for not having a fabric tape graduated to 1/64"s |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 12:14 PM | #58 | |
Banned
757
Rep 2,149
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 12:27 PM | #59 |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
That was not my intention - I was just being painfully technical. you were correct - my initial measurement was a little sloppy
Last edited by CTSean; 05-01-2019 at 12:41 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 01:45 PM | #60 | |
First Lieutenant
325
Rep 393
Posts |
Quote:
Anybody with an M2C wanna lay on the ground and take a picture of these new suspension arms with heim joints rather than rubber bushings? Are there really 2 versions? We've already established the same part#s didn't change. And how does this work with the M3/4 using the same arms. Are the M3/4's "upgraded" with the M2C arms? Inquiring minds want to know. For clarity one, or both, of the ends should NOT look like these ends https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...g/33322284534/ |
|
Appreciate
1
natmad674.50 |
05-01-2019, 02:57 PM | #61 |
this is the way
18468
Rep 8,589
Posts |
This is worse than the open vs closed deck debate of the n55.
|
Appreciate
10
|
05-01-2019, 05:37 PM | #62 |
Banned
757
Rep 2,149
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-01-2019, 08:21 PM | #63 |
Brigadier General
2093
Rep 3,009
Posts |
|
Appreciate
1
desertfox73676.00 |
05-01-2019, 11:39 PM | #64 |
BMW Driver
57
Rep 66
Posts |
I owned a 2017 M2 which I traded in for a 2019 M2C. The 2017 only had 4900 miles on it when I traded it in, so the springs/dampers were not worn. Both cars are manual and stock. I took both cars to Laguna Seca and the M2C was 4 seconds quicker. On the road, there are no discernible differences on ride comfort. The M2C does have quicker pickup and top end power last well pass 7000 rpm. I loved both cars, and I don't regret upgrading to the M2C.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-02-2019, 11:43 AM | #65 |
Private First Class
89
Rep 187
Posts |
There will be another thread in a few months where M2C owners will claim that it's just as quick and good as the M2/CS and so on! It's quite entertaining. Just go enjoy your car folks...wow...
|
Appreciate
4
|
05-02-2019, 12:14 PM | #66 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
1081
Rep 1,761
Posts
Drives: S2000, MacanS, M4CS
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
__________________
2020 ///M4 CS, Alpine White, DCT
2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold Instagram: Tommys911 Last edited by termigni; 05-02-2019 at 12:30 PM.. |
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|