[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bogeyman

I reckon it will be a limited edition.

No.

[bogeyman]

Understood lol

Originally Posted by Artemis

No.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Or the M2 test driver is used to Michelin PSS / PS4S and his colleagues fitted Contis without telling him/her.

I'm getting flashbacks to my first drive in my E92 M3 (came with Continentals) after being used to my brother's E90 M3 w/ Michelin PS2s. It was almost like those Contis were allergic to the road surface.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

I'm losing interest in this thing. I'll be curious to see how BMW positions it.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm wondering if CS is new vanilla, but may have more extensive upgrade options. M5 brakes, adjustable suspension, etc.

According to some mystery message, back in 2015 an early-stage M2 test mule sporting the S55 lapped the Nordschleife Nürburgring in the 07:43-07:44 range (M4: 07:52 - base M2: 07:58). And the mighty Michelin PS4S tires were not released yet back then.

But that was then and an unconfirmed rumor. Fast forward to Autumn 2017: let's wait and see how the 'M2 Director's Cut' with S55 engine detuned to 400-ish hp wil fare. More 'domesticated' in the meantime ? Of course, best would be a 'no holds barred' scenario: BMW, do us all a favor and forget for once about the ///M hierarchy by allowing BMW M to give the M2 the unrestricted S55 firepower. Enthusiasts will be prepared to pay M4 money for it.

Function over form or show: bigger brakes ? Good. Bring it on.

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to some mystery message, back in 2015 an early-stage M2 test mule sporting the S55 lapped the Nordschleife Nürburgring in the 07:43-07:44 range (M4: 07:52 - base M2: 07:58). And the mighty Michelin PS4S tires were not released yet back then.

But that was then and an unconfirmed rumor. Fast forward to Autumn 2017: let's wait and see how the 'M2 Director's Cut' with S55 engine detuned to 400-ish hp wil fare. More 'domesticated' in the meantime ? Of course, best would be a 'no holds barred' scenario: BMW, do us all a favor and forget for once about the ///M hierarchy by allowing BMW M to give the M2 the unrestricted S55 firepower. Enthusiasts will be prepared to pay M4 money for it.

Function over form or show: bigger brakes ? Good. Bring it on.

Thinking that the bigger brakes and other improvements we can't see may be an effort to get to a specific lap time, like that of a Cayman GT4. If true, not so easy a task.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bim2er

Thinking that the bigger brakes and other improvements we can't see maybe an effort to get to a specific lap time, like that of a Cayman GT4. If true, not so easy a task.

The Cayman GT4 lapped The Ring in 07:40. But, as you know, that 2-seater sports PS Cup 2 tires, weighs less (and Porsche offers two fuel tanks with different capacity to lower the official curb weight figure a little bit more: 55l standard and 64l optional free of charge) and got the looong 2nd gear ratio of the Cayman GTS. Manual transmission though and of course a great chassis, so hats off.

[dallas06m3]

This will be my next car after my 16 yo totals my M3 in an unauthorized joy ride.

[adc]

I'll have to say, if they keep the S55 torque curve unchanged, this car better have something that improves rear traction. Personally I'd modify the torque curve *and* increase the rear tire width.

I was reminded of this just yesterday after testing back to back my F80 with a 991.2 C2S.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by adc

I'll have to say, if they keep the S55 torque curve unchanged, this car better have something that improves rear traction. Personally I'd modify the torque curve *and* increase the rear tire width.

I was reminded of this just yesterday after testing back to back my F80 with a 991.2 C2S.

What would you rather have, a tire like PS Cup 2, or a 10mm wider tire?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

What would you rather have, a tire like PS Cup 2, or a 10mm wider tire?

Yes ...

[Gatte]

I have been to just 2 track events and still am a relative noob.

Can someone with more experience tell me just how many seconds a lap does a tyre like the PS cup 2 save over something like a Michelin pilot super sport on a lap like the Nurburgring ??

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Gatte

I have been to just 2 track events and still am a relative noob.
Can someone with more experience tell me just how many seconds a lap does a tyre like the PS cup 2 save over something like a Michelin pilot super sport on a lap like the Nurburgring ??

If you want to know the answer from a wealthy private test driver for Ferrari (with an interesting personal stable), while driving his own $5M LaFerrari Aperta in the Imola whereabouts, check 08:34-12:08:

[medphysdave]

Good info, thanks for sharing that. I knew tires made a big difference, but never had it quantified.

Have you run across any m2 specific tire comparisons?

[Artemis]

Back in the day the E46 M3 CSL lapped the Nürburgring in 07:50. That's 2 seconds faster than the nowadays M4 and 8 seconds faster than the M2.

It sported Cup tires (235/35ZR19 front and 265/30ZR19 rear).

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Artemis

If you want to know the answer from a wealthy private test driver for Ferrari (with an interesting personal stable), while driving his own $5M LaFerrari Aperta in the Imola whereabouts, check 08:34-12:08:

That is one sweet car. Do you really think the 458 is 10 seconds faster than the Aperta just with different tyres. That is insane if it were true.

The GT4 on the cup 2 compared to the PSS on the M2/M4 is an unfair comparison then.

[medphysdave]

This tells me that BMW isn't really concerned about lap times. I guess they need to run the same tire for testing so they can measure various improvements in other areas.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to some mystery message, back in 2015 an early-stage M2 test mule sporting the S55 lapped the Nordschleife Nürburgring in the 07:43-07:44 range (M4: 07:52 - base M2: 07:58). And the mighty Michelin PS4S tires were not released yet back then.

In 2015, it would probably be safe to assume that the S55 powered M2 was not even fully developed. If it was 8 seconds quicker then, the fully developed version with the newer tyres and maybe lighter weight should be quite the car.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Gatte

In 2015, it would probably be safe to assume that the S55 powered M2 was not even fully developed. If it was 8 seconds quicker then, the fully developed version with the newer tyres and maybe lighter weight should be quite the car.

Quite likely, back then, it was still the S55 in unrestricted fashion (431hp [metric]). Nobody spotted that unicorn lapping The Ring, so in the future we will find out whether it has truly existed.

Time has lapsed and development moved/moves on with power levels rumored to be toned down to the 400hp range (though zero confirmation, so it remains a rumor that may be accurate at some point in time but outdated later). And if settled for 400hp: maybe less is more (traction wise - getting the power properly down) ?

For the record, as regards the E82 1M development: "We had initially toyed with the idea of a 1M when we were conceiving the [1er] Coupé and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car. Originally in the early days of marketing the standard 135i was originally meant to be an M model." (see here).

Just imagine for a moment that 1M prototype sporting the E46 M3 CSL engine (modified version of the usual 3246cc S54 inline-six): man, that must have been quite a hot puppy with a cool naturally-aspirated airbox soundtrack.

We should actually hope that, before the M2 CS project gets signed off as finalized, competitors would release challenging info on potentially competing models. A matter of lifting the bar another notch when time and budget still allows BMW M some final fine-tuning.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Artemis

We should actually hope that, before the M2 CS project gets signed off as finalized, competitors would release challenging info on potentially competing models. A matter of lifting the bar another notch when time and budget still allows BMW M some final fine-tuning.

As far as competitors go, these are the ones we have so far:
Audi TTRS: This will be out long before the M2 CS,
Audi RS3: Don't think this will be competition for the CS. Likely competing with the base M2,
Porsche GT4: This has been sold out. No more will be made so no point competing with it for sales,
Porsche 718 S: This is apparently faster than the GT4 on the same tyres. Not limited production and definitely something that BMW would want to compete with,
Porsche GT4 RS: This could be out, although I do not think that BMW will be able to compete with this car.

I would think that BMW will know a lot more about models in the pipeline from it's major competitors than us. I sincerely hope that they take that into consideration more than the M Hierarchy when they make this car.

[adc]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

What would you rather have, a tire like PS Cup 2, or a 10mm wider tire?

For the street a 10mm wider tire and a milder torque curve.

Serious people will have different track wheels/tires anyway.

[Karmic Man]

Can't understand why people want milder performance on a CS model.

A CS model is track focus...that's why the bigger brakes and the more aggressive aero.

If people can't handle the M4 power delivery (which is pretty tame for me anyway) then they should just go for the standard M2.

[AntDX316]

I think the tail of the M2 is too cute to be good imo.