[Mdkcrf250r]

They wouldn’t void the entire warranty only parts directly related or could be related to the modification installed. Flash tunes or piggyback Tunes are a grey area because technically a tune increases the horsepower which is now putting stresses on the differential it was never designed to see such as the op’s case.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by akkando

What did they void the warranty on, the mirrors?

Huh? I doubt much can go wrong with the mirrors, unless something were to happen to the control of the folding or adjustment mechanism, and then, if the car is flashed, theyd likely pull it ... Youre going to tell them you know for a fact that the software you installed had nothing to do with those electronics? Have you seen the code? Good luck. When customers hack into the proprietary software from BMW, you'd better believe they dont look kindly on it..If they can draw any Possible connection to any part, they will.. Since the ecus control the workings of most of the key components, tuning can be treated very differently than replacing part of an exhaust system. Have fun taking them to court..

[akkando]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Huh? I doubt much can go wrong with the mirrors, unless something were to happen to the control of the folding or adjustment mechanism, and then, if the car is flashed, theyd likely pull it ... Youre going to tell them you know for a fact that the software you installed had nothing to do with those electronics? Have you seen the code? Good luck. When customers hack into the proprietary software from BMW, you'd better believe they dont look kindly on it..If they can draw any Possible connection to any part, they will.. Since the ecus control the workings of most of the key components, tuning can be treated very differently than replacing part of an exhaust system. Have fun taking them to court..

Are we talking about voiding a warranty on coding or tuning?

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by akkando

Are we talking about voiding a warranty on coding or tuning?

I'm not really sure whether the dealer was referring to coding or to a tune.. However, I dont see a large difference from BMW perspective, since both either alter or replace proprietary software that lies at the very heart of the operation of the vehicle. When you code, youre usually using unauthorized third party equipment. BMW has no idea what that code comprises, nor is it their business to know. All they know is the electronic heart of the vehicle has been altered. Which specific systems were actually altered, or what impact it had, is really beside the point. Same for tuning.

Im not condemning these endeavors, as in the past, Ive been a big player in that game.. All Im saying is messing with modern vehicle software is a risky business.. Go ahead and engage, if you want, but be prepared there may be consequences.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by boostm3

I'm not really sure whether the dealer was referring to coding or to a tune.. However, I dont see a large difference from BMW perspective, since both either alter or replace proprietary software that lies at the very heart of the operation of the vehicle. When you code, youre usually using unauthorized third party equipment. BMW has no idea what that code comprises, nor is it their business to know. All they know is the electronic heart of the vehicle has been altered. Which specific systems were actually altered, or what impact it had, is really beside the point. Same for tuning.

Im not condemning these endeavors, as in the past, Ive been a big player in that game.. All Im saying is messing with modern vehicle software is a risky business.. Go ahead and engage, if you want, but be prepared there may be consequences.

It's completely different. There are different computer modules that control different things. So for example the module that controls the mirrors may also control exterior lighting, but doesn't control the head unit with nav or gauge cluster. It absolutely doesn't control the engine, transmission, or differential in any way.

So maybe BMW could say if you coded mirroring folding on lock and have problems with other things related to that module it's because of "coding". Maybe they could stretch a bit and say random other unrelated module electrical problems are from coding. However they couldn't ever say it was the reason your engine threw a rod, why your transmission is leaking, or why your differential is making noise. They would have to prove it, and they wouldn't be able to. If they could people would be using esys and bimmercode to tune their engine!

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by akkando

It's completely different. There are different computer modules that control different things. So for example the module that controls the mirrors may also control exterior lighting, but doesn't control the head unit with nav or gauge cluster. It absolutely doesn't control the engine, transmission, or differential in any way.

So maybe BMW could say if you coded mirroring folding on lock and have problems with other things related to that module it's because of "coding". Maybe they could stretch a bit and say random other unrelated module electrical problems are from coding. However they couldn't ever say it was the reason your engine threw a rod, why your transmission is leaking, or why your differential is making noise. They would have to prove it, and they wouldn't be able to. If they could people would be using esys and bimmercode to tune their engine!

I hear you, but I think you're missing the point. How is BMW supposed to know what is in the software that coded your car? Because you tell them, 'All I did was code the mirrors.'? All they have to know from their perspective is you used unauthorized equipment to modify your vehicle.. Period.

You're asking them to vouch for the fact that the product(s) you used to hack your software was bug free and did what it was supposed to do, with no side effects. Its not up to them to debug the tools you used.

How many times have we read in these pages posts stating that after I coded X, Y no longer works. Is it BMW's job to debug this?

Hacking the electronic brain(s) of your car is far different than putting on black kidney grills from BMW's perspective. Im not saying every dealer would take this austere approach, but those that do Im sure would tell you theyre well within their rights to withdraw warranty coverage on part if not all of the vehicle.

Clearly, because a tune affects more of the vehicle's integral components, it could present an even larger potential problem.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by boostm3

I hear you, but I think you're missing the point. How is BMW supposed to know what is in the software that coded your car? Because you tell them, 'All I did was code the mirrors.'? All they have to know from their perspective is you used unauthorized equipment to modify your vehicle.. Period.

You're asking them to vouch for the fact that the product(s) you used to hack your software was bug free and did what it was supposed to do, with no side effects. Its not up to them to debug the tools you used.

How many times have we read in these pages posts stating that after I coded X, Y no longer works. Is it BMW's job to debug this?

Hacking the electronic brain(s) of your car is far different than putting on black kidney grills from BMW's perspective. Im not saying every dealer would take this austere approach, but those that do Im sure would tell you theyre well within their rights to withdraw warranty coverage on part if not all of the vehicle.

Clearly, because a tune affects more of the vehicle's integral components, it could present an even larger potential problem.

I guess if you have a horrible relationship with your dealer, anything can happen. If what you are saying is that changing the time that the seat belt chime dings when unbuckled, or turning off the ASD, is going to get your car blacklisted, that's just silly.

People who are writing their own coding and introducing it by flash into BMW's modules probably have something to worry about, at least if they screw up. The programs that merely access hidden menus that are already present, such as Carly and Bimmercode, and change the check marks, are simply enabling things that BMW has already coded for, and which in many cases are either accessible to the owner through iDrive, by asking the dealer, or the cars are sold with different boxes checked in different countries or regions of the world.

The above having been said, if you go about coding a whole bunch of things on your car you are taking a minute chance every time that you will fry a module. In that case, you have likely bought yourself a module, and maybe you will get lucky and succeed in getting Bimmercode or Carly to pay for it, but I wouldn't count on that. I would suggest that if you are going to code things in your car using one of these mainstream apps, that you should probably limit yourself to things that are absolutely important to you. In my case, that was the ASD (turning it off) and duration of the seat belt chime. I can live with the rest of the stuff and even though I could spend hours fine-tuning every aspect of my car's behavior, I think that is taking a chance and asking for trouble.

The former owner of my 1M (in Canada) unbeknownst to me put a Lojack device into the car. The car had a battery drain and basically needed to be plugged into a float charger all the time or the battery would go dead, which it did at least once. When I took it into the dealer, the tech ultimately found the Lojack device, and it took a lot of time and effort to find and remove it. In the end I paid for this, and also for a new battery, since none of this was the fault of BMW even though the car was still under warranty. I guess if they hated me at the dealership that maybe the car would have been black-listed, but they don't so this was the only complication I faced and the rest of the warranty remained in place for the duration remaining.

[Ktmdriver]

The reviews on Yelp and Dealerater.com are mixed on the place you bought your vehicle from. However on some of the reviews, employees of this place seem to want to fix the customers problems, but we are not talking about a bad burger. A 7k differential replacement is a whole other ball of wax. I’m pretty sure they are going to dig their heels in on this one.

I would give your dealership, “in writing” a chance to remedy the problem. Be clear what you want, keep it simple and short, don’t get angry in your correspondence. If that doesn’t work within a reasonable time period, let them know you will be contacting a DMV investigator, not just the over the counter person that we are all accustomed to. California DMV has a special investigative unit, they have guns and badges and deal specifically with dealerships such as the one you bought your car from.

Then... if that doesn’t remedy the problem, you can take your case to small claims court. The max recovery amount is up to 7.5 k. You have to play the long game here. That means, corresponding via registered snail mail. No phone calls. Document everything and then be prepared to back up everything you claim.

Good luck.

[clubsport]

Any response from the OP? He seems to be quiet the last 3-4 pages. Any follow up?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

They wouldn’t void the entire warranty only parts directly related or could be related to the modification installed. Flash tunes or piggyback Tunes are a grey area because technically a tune increases the horsepower which is now putting stresses on the differential it was never designed to see such as the op’s case.

Agree with you.

Of course BMW just dropped an S55 in and I bet they aren't changing the diff so i bet it's good for 410 hp...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by akkando

It's completely different. There are different computer modules that control different things. So for example the module that controls the mirrors may also control exterior lighting, but doesn't control the head unit with nav or gauge cluster. It absolutely doesn't control the engine, transmission, or differential in any way.

So maybe BMW could say if you coded mirroring folding on lock and have problems with other things related to that module it's because of "coding". Maybe they could stretch a bit and say random other unrelated module electrical problems are from coding. However they couldn't ever say it was the reason your engine threw a rod, why your transmission is leaking, or why your differential is making noise. They would have to prove it, and they wouldn't be able to. If they could people would be using esys and bimmercode to tune their engine!

Exactly. Per Magnusson Moss.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Exactly. Per Magnusson Moss.

Keep dreaming. I mean, yeah, if you replaced your kidney grills with IND stuff or your brake pads with Powerstops and your exhaust blows a weld or something of that ilk, sure, Magnusson Moss to the rescue, if need be. However, the very act of hacking or replacing BMW proprietary software which affects hundreds of parts, parameters, and components with third party tunes may void warranties on those components. How is BMW supposed to know that the software you installed wasnt all kinds of buggy and didnt affect components outside the drivetrain? It's not up to BMW to deconstruct that third party software; easier for them to just void warranties on any component that could conceivably be affected by ecu hacks. It will wind up being up to you to prove what you hacked DIDNT harm those components should something go awry. Just the way things work.. Very few folks are going to want to take BMW to court over this.. Live in the real world!

Ok.. rant over.. the fact is, some dealerships will overlook these things. Others will get the VIN 'flagged' as happened to the OP's car. If a serious problem with a drivetrain component crops up which usually will require a BMW regional rep to examine, in many cases, youll simply be SOL. We've had ex SAs on here confirming pretty much the same thing. You take this risk when you tune your car under warranty. Either wait til warranty is up or take your chances with a friendly dealer.

[Cavpilot2k]

I consider myself very lucky to have a mod-friendly dealer. That said, while under warranty (including CPO), I kept my 135 to things done by that dealer, like my Dinan tune.
So when, for instance, at about 60k Miles My manual transmission crapped out, they covered it without batting an eye.
I've also heard of people going there with DPs with no problem.

[RocketBoots]

It seems like most of these types of threads eventually uncover that the OP was doing something a little less than straightforward, or has not been upfront with the forum when asking for help/advice. Have we gotten to that point yet? I only mention this because there appear to be some parts of the story that don't quite add up*...

*disclaimer: I only read the first and last page of this thread.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Keep dreaming. I mean, yeah, if you replaced your kidney grills with IND stuff or your brake pads with Powerstops and your exhaust blows a weld or something of that ilk, sure, Magnusson Moss to the rescue, if need be. However, the very act of hacking or replacing BMW proprietary software which affects hundreds of parts, parameters, and components with third party tunes may void warranties on those components. How is BMW supposed to know that the software you installed wasnt all kinds of buggy and didnt affect components outside the drivetrain? It's not up to BMW to deconstruct that third party software; easier for them to just void warranties on any component that could conceivably be affected by ecu hacks. It will wind up being up to you to prove what you hacked DIDNT harm those components should something go awry. Just the way things work.. Very few folks are going to want to take BMW to court over this.. Live in the real world!

Ok.. rant over.. the fact is, some dealerships will overlook these things. Others will get the VIN 'flagged' as happened to the OP's car. If a serious problem with a drivetrain component crops up which usually will require a BMW regional rep to examine, in many cases, youll simply be SOL. We've had ex SAs on here confirming pretty much the same thing. You take this risk when you tune your car under warranty. Either wait til warranty is up or take your chances with a friendly dealer.

You're not even installing software. It's BMW's own software. It just has a setting for fold mirrors on lock yes or no, but not exposed through the iDrive to the user because they chose not (because fuck 2 series buyers?). All people are doing in this case is getting access to the settings that are already there and programmed by BMW and selecting something different than what is default or show in iDrive. I would love to hear BMW's explanation for why their very own setting for mirrors folding on lock that they disabled to separate the 2 series from the 3 series may be the cause of rod getting thrown threw the engine when there is no evidence of a performance tune or engine parts.

I don't believe any software is really installed or "hacked" by the "coding" all it's doing changing settings that already exist because they were developed and shipped on the car by BMW but didn't add those settings to iDrive.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

It seems like most of these types of threads eventually uncover that the OP was doing something a little less than straightforward, or has not been upfront with the forum when asking for help/advice. Have we gotten to that point yet? I only mention this because there appear to be some parts of the story that don't quite add up*...

*disclaimer: I only read the first and last page of this thread.

maybe read the thread

[chmura]

Where is the OP? Seems like he’s gone missing, any update on this?

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by akkando

You're not even installing software. It's BMW's own software. It just has a setting for fold mirrors on lock yes or no, but not exposed through the iDrive to the user because they chose not (because fuck 2 series buyers?). All people are doing in this case is getting access to the settings that are already there and programmed by BMW and selecting something different than what is default or show in iDrive. I would love to hear BMW's explanation for why their very own setting for mirrors folding on lock that they disabled to separate the 2 series from the 3 series may be the cause of rod getting thrown threw the engine when there is no evidence of a performance tune or engine parts.

I don't believe any software is really installed or "hacked" by the "coding" all it's doing changing settings that already exist because they were developed and shipped on the car by BMW but didn't add those settings to iDrive.

Yes, I would think youve got a better case to make with coding than with tuning.. But even with coding, they can easily take the position that these menu choices arent in Idrive because they didnt want them to be for our vehicle. Even with ASD coding, they could make the case that they designed the car to have a characteristic sound which they engineered it to have; they dont want you changing that sound. I mean, to me it sounds totally unreasonable, but they can be pricks sometimes.

As for tuning, I think logically, they have a stronger case to disallow.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Yes, I would think youve got a better case to make with coding than with tuning.. But even with coding, they can easily take the position that these menu choices arent in Idrive because they didnt want them to be for our vehicle. Even with ASD coding, they could make the case that they designed the car to have a characteristic sound which they engineered it to have; they dont want you changing that sound. I mean, to me it sounds totally unreasonable, but they can be pricks sometimes.

As for tuning, I think logically, they have a stronger case to disallow.

@boostm3

Coding a vehicle is making manipulations withinBMW's own software. It's akin to changing dip switches on an old school garage remote or accessing the service menu on a television to calibrate the television for better picture quality.

You can't " code" a car to do something that isn't a permitted BMW item. BMW has set defaults for items and coding is simply adjusting a toggle to a list of already available alternatives to the default.



A BMW Genius in my area codes cars as a side job.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Yes, I would think youve got a better case to make with coding than with tuning.. But even with coding, they can easily take the position that these menu choices arent in Idrive because they didnt want them to be for our vehicle. Even with ASD coding, they could make the case that they designed the car to have a characteristic sound which they engineered it to have; they dont want you changing that sound. I mean, to me it sounds totally unreasonable, but they can be pricks sometimes.

As for tuning, I think logically, they have a stronger case to disallow.

BMW can want or not want you to have whatever. That doesn't prove your ASD removal by changing a true flag to false is the reason why your engine was destroyed. Maybe they can have reasonable doubt that your audio system problems are caused by your coding efforts but they can't just say well there's computers all over the car so everything is now void. I would love to see them try.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by akkando

BMW can want or not want you to have whatever. That doesn't prove your ASD removal by changing a true flag to false is the reason why your engine was destroyed. Maybe they can have reasonable doubt that your audio system problems are caused by your coding efforts but they can't just say well there's computers all over the car so everything is now void. I would love to see them try.

Listen, I agree that coding your ASD out would in most cases not void your engine warranty despite what my dealer told me.... However, there are more than a few people here who coded items only to have secondary side effects in other electronic components. They coded A, and now B doesnt work. That could be problematic. I bypassed my ASD in about 15 minutes rather than code it out even though Ive got the wifi dongle and software license to do so. I just didnt want to tempt fate. But Ive said all along that I think tuning is the bigger concern than coding wrt warranty integrity. And remember, you as the customer can say what he/she wants, but its up to BMW to grant or deny coverage, and unless you plan on getting into a legal hassle with BMW, its best to proceed with caution unless you really want to take them to court.

[McPurrs]

All I know is that if BMW flagged it in their system, something was suspect to begin with. i would also check why the car was in there to begin with. OP, send me a PM with your last 7 VIN and I will have my friend at BMW check the history if you would like.