02-04-2014, 04:25 PM | #287 | ||
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02-04-2014, 04:38 PM | #288 |
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I think a reasonable expectation for power would be 320-350hp. Getting that out of an I4 without lag, though, will be extremely tough. I hope BMW trickles some of the S55 engine tech down to reduce lag. Perhaps they could increase the 2.0L displacement a bit, who knows.
Keeping in line with the M4, the weight savings would put it somewhere in the 3100 lbs range, unless they go hardcore and take out the back seats. The resulting power/torque to weight ratio would definitely put it at the top of it's class. By contrast, the CLA45 is 3600 lbs and the 2-seater TT RS is 3300 lbs. |
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02-04-2014, 05:24 PM | #289 |
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Totally agree,I appreciate the info from Scott26 but he is starting to sound like a politician.
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02-04-2014, 05:46 PM | #290 | |
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I get that the M2 needs to forge its own identity, but I sure hope the folks at M are paying attention to the feedback in these forums. Even the reasonable folks are going to hold the M2 to an incredibly high standard. The 1M was a raging success because it was built on a formula that blew people's minds: small car, big engine, crazy wide stance. If the M2 has to make too many compromises to protect its older brothers, BMW will have a flop on their hands.
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02-04-2014, 05:49 PM | #291 | |
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Again, I will be massively disappointed if BMW screws this up and puts a turbo 4 in the M2. I have driven the N20 328i and no thanks. 4-cylinder turbos anre twitchy, laggy, and peaky and do not have the same dynamics as an inline 6. I feel like I would be taking a step down moving to a 4 cylinder. 4 cylinders make me think of hondas and toyotas... Inline 6 makes me think BMW. I dont want to buy an M4 not because I can't afford one, but because it is TOO BIG. Basically I'm saying "BMW come take my money" if you put the S55 in the M2. If not, forget it, I won't be buying any BMW next and I will have to start looking at something else. Highly disappointed.
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02-04-2014, 05:58 PM | #292 | ||
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I'd really like 1,350kgs (~3000lbs). But to achieve BMW would need to find 180kgs (~400 lbs) compared to M235i Euro weight of 1,530kgs (~3,400lbs). I4 N20 over I6 N55 already nets 60kg (~130lbs). (Ignoring some weight increase needed for S20). Assume 5% weight reduction (M4 savings) for using carbon-fibre plastics nets 80kgs (180lbs). This still leaves us around 40-45kg (90-100lbs) short. Can they get 7.5% weight reduction? If they could - where would it come from? +1. Very well put. Last edited by Aust350z; 02-04-2014 at 06:04 PM.. |
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02-04-2014, 06:58 PM | #293 | |
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If Scott's input regarding extensive use of carbon fiber is put into action, BMW should be able to bring the M2 in under 3000 lbs. All things considered, a 6 cylinder will still make it a better car! |
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02-04-2014, 07:24 PM | #294 |
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Everyone seems to think the option should be either a turbo 4 or turbo 6, but I would love a nice 350ish HP naturally aspirated inline 6. That would be awesome. Keeps the M4 unique, and gives the 2 series a unique, but less powerful engine.
I just hate the idea of a 4 cylinder, regardless of HP, lightness, smoothness, etc. |
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02-04-2014, 08:08 PM | #295 |
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to follow up what almost all of us are saying here, i'd like to add that:
i'd rather have a 3100 lb M2 with an inline-6 than to have a 2975 lb M2 with a 4-banger. |
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02-04-2014, 08:14 PM | #296 | |
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And the average joe that can afford the m4 will never think about the m2. Imagine that. |
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02-04-2014, 08:27 PM | #297 |
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Possibly. Hopefully. They achieved a 7.8% decrease in weight from the standard M3 with the E46 M3 CSL.
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02-04-2014, 08:54 PM | #298 | |
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Honest question. I tried to build a m235 comparatively equipped to my f30 335 and the price difference was about $4k and came around $53k. I can see a well equipped m2 nearing $65k. I'm all for a m2 but, at over $60k and knowing BMW will protect the m4, I can see people having a hard time justifying it over a m4. But I guess the same can be said for a fully optioned 335... Im surprised how close in size, weight, and price the 2 series is to the 4 series. Side point, it looks like there is a good chance of the 2 series "race" car being made available so there's that too. |
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02-04-2014, 10:04 PM | #299 |
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i vote for inline 6 for the record....
this car wont be come out for a couple years in that time they will want 30+ mpg and will realistically put a 4cylinder in the M2, can they do a tri-turbo? do tri-turbos exist now? how about in a few years.
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02-04-2014, 10:52 PM | #300 | |
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Not sure what would be involved with tri-turboing a 2.0 I4... maybe a baby one that is produces full boost between 500-1300rpm to remove turbo lag |
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02-04-2014, 11:09 PM | #301 | ||
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02-04-2014, 11:31 PM | #302 | |
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02-05-2014, 12:20 AM | #303 | |
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I have never heard anyone complain about the C63 AMG being a "poor relation" because it uses a detuned version of the engine used in the E63, S63, CL63, CLS63 and SL63. I have never heard anyone complain that the "spotlight" was taken away from the E63, S63, CL63, CLS63 and SL63... because the C63 used the same engine in a car placed lower in the size and marketing hierarchy. Like wise I have never heard anyone say such things regarding the fact that the RS4/RS5 use the same engine as the R8 V8. Rather I surmise that BMW wishes to employ the 911 vs Cayman marketing model. Artificially limiting its best and lightest chassis/platform for a sports car... in order to protect the inferior more obese one. |
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02-05-2014, 12:35 AM | #304 | |
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Also, I do think having a 4 cylinder gives M Division a certain amount of play room. What can they do with a turbo 4? This is a question no one has really answered? It's kinda like, "What if Honda made a 4 door S2000 with a turbo?" |
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02-05-2014, 02:32 AM | #305 |
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Have you seen how much an M235i is going to weigh? I doubt its going to be much (if any) of a performance improvement over my 1er. I would rather keep my 135 at this point, toss a jb4 in it, and drive it into the ground. Looks like this first go round with the 2 series isn't for me...
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02-05-2014, 02:37 AM | #306 |
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Completely agree.
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02-05-2014, 05:50 AM | #307 |
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Many on here look at I4 vs. I6 only from a perspective of number of cylinders. But we have to look at this case from what I would call a quality perspective.
If I say the M4's S55 engine is crap, it is just a cheaply tuned N55, sold for a über-premium price, many will disagree. An they are right to some extent, the S55 is more than just a tuned N55, it is not "cheap" as one could think (has still to be proven with R&D financial numbers compared to S65, but will never happen). Shortly said, in ///Mystic language, the S55 is a "true" M engine. So an S55 in an M2, even detuned, I'm fine with that. But will that happen? NO. Why? Because M2 would be to close to M4, and with the same power output as the M4 it would be in all ways faster than the M4. BMW will not allow this just a Porsche does not allow the Cayman to be faster than a 911. Even the Cayman GTS will not the 350 PS output that the 911 Carrera has. So do you want a really cheaply tuned N55 in the M2? Me not. I then prefer a I4 that is reengineered like the S55 has been. I could consider that a true M engine, but a tuned N55, what the S55 is not, has no place in an M car. So as the M2 is unlikely the get the S55 M engine, I prefer a true M I4 than a cheap I6. To support this point: 325i E30 ("cheap" I6) or M3 E30 (true M I4)? Last edited by BMW269; 02-05-2014 at 05:55 AM.. |
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02-05-2014, 07:29 AM | #308 |
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I seriously don't understand this whole concept of not wanting the lower numbered models outperforming the higher numbered. I mean, smaller cars *should* be faster, particularly on the track. If you want more doors, leg room, and luxury, then you should expect some performance trade-offs and you should expect to pay more.
The current approach strikes me as very small-minded thinking... "bigger number car must be faster!!!" |
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