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      07-05-2022, 06:15 PM   #1
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Chris Harris' thoughts on selling his F87 M2 CS after G87 M2 announced

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In the August Top Gear magazine Chris Harris has an interesting article on why he got his M2 CS and the possibility that a new RWD M2 manual may be better.

He raises some interesting points.
"The reasons why people bought the car were, I think, as follows. Many people thought it sounded like a return to a classic BMW recipe of compact dimensions and good power – in other words it was a car they would drive. Others merely saw it as an investment and were much more interested in how many were being built. The one thing both groups had in common was their buying decision was supported by a hunch that the F87 M2 CS was the last of its type. This is the crux of people's indecision around whether to buy or sell. In the case of the M2, BMW has just teased a new M2, which will be 2WD and available as a manual. Both are attributes we didn't necessarily think would be available on the new car. The 'not to be repeated' comfort blanket has just been ripped from under us. Like everyone else, I'm now thinking, "Ah, there will be another [G87] M2 CS and it will be faster and better – and my car will be worth zilch".
Apple news article attached: https://apple.news/AM5CjVeE9QS-1toXLwJE8dQ

Interestingly - I bought it for the first reason plus I loved the OG M2 design and CS embellishments and the fact it was the first gen M2. The last point can't be repeated in the G87, and the second is very subjective - though it's fair to say the F87 design was generally loved by most - again something that can't be taken for granted as improving in the G87.

If you had to choose, and a new M2 C or CS RWD manual emerged that somehow drives better than the F87 CS - would you flip your existing car for it?
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      07-05-2022, 06:34 PM   #2
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No because it'll still look like ass and it'll grow again in size. The F87 is the sweet spot of size and power for me. Nothing out there interests me at this point.
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      07-05-2022, 06:52 PM   #3
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I'm not really one for having to have the "best" possible thing at a given moment. I watch too many people chase that bit of unhappiness. It has a psychology name - the hedonic treadmill. The CS was a special car and moment for me in my life, it meets/exceeds every need I have for that kind of car. Doesn't matter if the new M2 is faster, or better looking, or more rare or whatever. There's ALWAYS something that is + over what you have. Being content in the moment and with what you already have is truly underrated.
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      07-05-2022, 07:07 PM   #4
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Every social media youtuber's headline video reads "I bought my dream car" and after the G87 release "I made the decision to sell my dream car" lol
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      07-05-2022, 07:22 PM   #5
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It's kind of what I'd thought I'd hear. It strikes me that Harris' sentiments don't really represent the type of views I hear about the car on this forum at least.

I'm sure some will flip and turn though others will hang on no matter what.

I suspect in my situation if the new car is great I'll look for a way to add one (as I'd love a small coupe manual) rather than let go of the DCT CS to make space. I am certain in 20 years time I'd regret the day I ever let go of it.
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      07-05-2022, 08:00 PM   #6
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Chris has been known to buy ugly power over beautiful balance, and that's what the new car will be.

The CS is the best, and last of its kind, although BMW knowing that, made sure the new M2 and any future CS version will easily out-perform it.

I desire beauty and balance, so it'll be a CS for me when the time is right.
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      07-05-2022, 08:16 PM   #7
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Last night when I was walking back to my car after picking up a burrito bowl and saw it from a slight elevation in perfect dusk lighting I thought to myself for the 500th time how much I love the way the car looks and drives, and how I should really get a full PPF wrap because I want to keep it forever.

It's the same way I felt when I finally got the perfect custom crossover installed in my Hi Fi speakers, finally content and I've been enjoying those speakers pretty much every day for 18 years now.
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      07-05-2022, 08:29 PM   #8
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Someone like Harris has a completely different perspective and outlook on car ownership than your average M2 owner, given his line of work. The fact is, the new M2 will destroy its predecessor on paper, but when you think about it, it's a drastically different car in many ways, so are they really comparable? Kind of like comparing a e92 to an f80.
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      07-05-2022, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay View Post
Last night when I was walking back to my car after picking up a burrito bowl and saw it from a slight elevation in perfect dusk lighting I thought to myself for the 500th time how much I love the way the car looks and drives, and how I should really get a full PPF wrap because I want to keep it forever.

It's the same way I felt when I finally got the perfect custom crossover installed in my Hi Fi speakers, finally content and I've been enjoying those speakers pretty much every day for 18 years now.
I like your approach - I find it very relatable. I'm very happy with my speaker set-up after a build up of 20 years. Equally with my camera lenses that have simplified drastically over 25 years to 2 beautiful prime lenses. Once you find something perfect for you, there is a joy in experiencing it over and over again.
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      07-05-2022, 09:44 PM   #10
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I like my M2 CS as I see this car (or even the M2C) as the true spiritual successor to my ol' E46 M3. Nothing BMW has made after the E46 M3 even came close and I don't believe the new M2 will either.
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      07-05-2022, 09:58 PM   #11
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As long as the back seats are the same smaller size as the M240i, not interested.

The car got heavier and bigger yet somehow has less passenger room.
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      07-06-2022, 02:04 AM   #12
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We'll see what the new gen will bring. I was at a BMW dealer recently and they already said if I were interested in the new M2. Well, first I need to see it. Second, I need to see how it'll drive. If it will be a heavy lump, then no thanks. I have no need for such car, as primary use for my CS is track driving. Also, there are P cars that are of more interest then the new M2. Especially, if it will become a heavy piece of kit.

I do not fall into any of the Harris's categories. I bought the car because I was looking at a track toy. Gt4 was considered, a 911 C2S too, an M2C etc. And as I saw that a CS is still available locally, I pulled the trigger - single objective - to enjoy the car and drive it on the track.
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      07-06-2022, 06:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_slo View Post
We'll see what the new gen will bring. I was at a BMW dealer recently and they already said if I were interested in the new M2. Well, first I need to see it. Second, I need to see how it'll drive. If it will be a heavy lump, then no thanks. I have no need for such car, as primary use for my CS is track driving. Also, there are P cars that are of more interest then the new M2. Especially, if it will become a heavy piece of kit.

I do not fall into any of the Harris's categories. I bought the car because I was looking at a track toy. Gt4 was considered, a 911 C2S too, an M2C etc. And as I saw that a CS is still available locally, I pulled the trigger - single objective - to enjoy the car and drive it on the track.
The G87 will be heavy, there's no doubt about it, although the CS is no lightweight either. The biggest breakthrough by many auto manufacturers in the last few years is making cars handle exceptionally despite the weight. BMW has gotten pretty good at this across all models - hell my 3 ton X5 with air suspension handles way better than it should.

What's not being talked about enough, in my opinion, is the S58/ZF8 combo. Everyone just assumes that since it's in the G80/82 that it'll be good in the G87 but I don't think it's a good match. To add to that, an owner of a S55/DCT combo is really going to be in for a shock. We'll see what they do with the tuning, S58 is not nearly as punchy down low and the ZF is about 7/10ths of the DCT in terms of shift quickness. It's a much different driving experience.
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      07-06-2022, 07:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post

What's not being talked about enough, in my opinion, is the S58/ZF8 combo. Everyone just assumes that since it's in the G80/82 that it'll be good in the G87 but I don't think it's a good match. To add to that, an owner of a S55/DCT combo is really going to be in for a shock. We'll see what they do with the tuning, S58 is not nearly as punchy down low and the ZF is about 7/10ths of the DCT in terms of shift quickness. It's a much different driving experience.
There's no way I'd be considering a ZF8/S58 G87 - I've driven the same config in the G80/2 and was 'meh'.

A manual G87 I'd give serious thought to, but not to replace the DCT F87.
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      07-06-2022, 07:38 AM   #15
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It's not whether the new one will be better or not, it's the value hit our current CS' will take as a result.

The new car will be objectively better, no doubt. That's what manufacturers do to make money. Whether or not either one stands the test of time is the real question.
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      07-06-2022, 09:08 AM   #16
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The things I care about for a weekend car are not getting better with technology. I'd say the F87 CS is at and probably beyond the straight line speed I need and I will probably never track it.

It's no lightweight but it's not much heavier than an E46 M3, which is the pinnacle of BMW driving and design for me.

Maybe I'll pick up a used G87 manual if demand wanes in 5 years when a subsequent EV/hybrid M2 debuts with 600+ HP.

I'm not selling the F87, and I'm not worried about resale. Worst case it drops in value and I keep it and drive the hell out of it. Best case, I pass down an extremely valuable car to my son in 15-20 years.
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      07-06-2022, 09:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfarrzhp View Post
The things I care about for a weekend car are not getting better with technology. I'd say the F87 CS is at and probably beyond the straight line speed I need and I will probably never track it.

It's no lightweight but it's not much heavier than an E46 M3, which is the pinnacle of BMW driving and design for me.

Maybe I'll pick up a used G87 manual if demand wanes in 5 years when a subsequent EV/hybrid M2 debuts with 600+ HP.

I'm not selling the F87, and I'm not worried about resale. Worst case it drops in value and I keep it and drive the hell out of it. Best case, I pass down an extremely valuable car to my son in 15-20 years.
same , exactly same . with you my friend
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      07-06-2022, 09:46 AM   #18
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the ZF works great in a boat like the X3M and it certainly works well in the G80/82. It works great when you're really womping it for sure and at low speeds makes things quite daily-able. But if you're looking for that "violent" shifting in the DCT, that ZF won't give it to you.
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      07-06-2022, 07:16 PM   #19
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I personally bought now as I prefer the looks of the current/past versions, and if history holds true, it will have some slight growth in size, and possibly weight.
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      07-06-2022, 08:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by to_riffic View Post
the ZF works great in a boat like the X3M and it certainly works well in the G80/82. It works great when you're really womping it for sure and at low speeds makes things quite daily-able. But if you're looking for that "violent" shifting in the DCT, that ZF won't give it to you.
This is great advice about the benefits of the DCT vs the ZF8. Not to mention the G87 M2 will have iDrive 8. To me iDrive 6 is perfect.

I said it before, the G87 M2 CSL may be good but I believe the base and competition G87 will be meh. It may have 455 or whatever horsepower but with a bigger size and 200-300 more pounds. The S58 will be detuned in the G87 M2 as the power won’t be as impressive as the G80/82 M3/M4.
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      07-06-2022, 08:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
This is great advice about the benefits of the DCT vs the ZF8. Not to mention the G87 M2 will have iDrive 8. To me iDrive 6 is perfect.

I said it before, the G87 M2 CSL may be good but I believe the base and competition G87 will be meh. It may have 455 or whatever horsepower but with a bigger size and 200-300 more pounds. The S58 will be detuned in the G87 M2 as the power won’t be as impressive as the G80/82 M3/M4.
Funny enough when I had the X3M, I believe it had iDrive 7, so when I first got into the CS, I bemoaned about the step down in tech, no HUD, and lack of CA. I still bitch about no CA, but I got used to the older iDrive 6 eventually.
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      07-06-2022, 09:17 PM   #22
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Hate to burst his bubble but no way on earth there will be a manual CS in the G series. Of course no DCT either.

G series M3/4 is supremely capable but too refined for me. The G series M2 will carry on this recipe no doubt as that's what most people want.

I find it takes away from the joy of driving. But maybe that's me? What I love most about F87 platform is that it's not that refined. It's an angry little terrier that's fun at all speeds. I also have no intention of ever selling it, so the investment aspect means nothing to me.

If you get enjoyment from stats, racetrack times achieved by professional drivers, comfort & refinement over a raw connection then the G series will be better.
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