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      04-18-2020, 11:00 AM   #1
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BMW TODAY - Episode: THE M2 CS

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EDIT by Artemis: 01:54 - 02:28:
BMW Today: "One thing I have ask you because it's been mentioned so many times in the forums. You brought out the M2. Then you upgraded to the Competition. Now we can see a CS. Will there be also a CSL or what is the overall strategy ?"
Markus Flasch: "To be honest, we haven't decided yet, but we will do more Sondermodelle [special models] than in the past. We want to show that our cars are deriven from the race track and we want to close the gap between competition high-performance car and a race car. And the CS, or maybe even a CSL, alternatives that we are elaborating."
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      04-18-2020, 12:54 PM   #2
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Drives better than it looks.... You can tell he loves this car by the smile on his face when talking about it.
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      04-18-2020, 02:26 PM   #3
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Anticipation is the Best part. To a point!
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      04-18-2020, 02:42 PM   #4
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Very interesting how he alluded to a CSL variant.
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      04-18-2020, 03:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
Very interesting how he alluded to a CSL variant.
People have been complaining about the price of the CS daily for the last five months. Imagine a $100k CSL and the complaints of a six figure 2 Series.
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      04-18-2020, 04:53 PM   #6
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No CSL on the F platform. Even CS racing is heavy and over 100k.
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      04-18-2020, 08:18 PM   #7
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Two remarks:
  • 00:55: "very lightweight": that's rather flattering for the M2 CS:
    • 6MT: 1550 kg DIN / 1625 kg EU;
    • M-DCT: 1575 kg DIN / 1650 kg EU;
  • 03:27: "it's also a robust investment; our limited edition cars have always proven to be very robust investments": seen the M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS prices lately ?
Only tidbit of 'new' information (01:54 - 02:28):
BMW Today: "One thing I have ask you because it's been mentioned so many times in the forums. You brought out the M2. Then you upgraded to the Competition. Now we can see a CS. Will there be also a CSL or what is the overall strategy ?"
Markus Flasch: "To be honest, we haven't decided yet, but we will do more Sondermodelle [special models] than in the past. We want to show that our cars are deriven from the race track and we want to close the gap between competition high-performance car and a race car. And the CS, or maybe even a CSL, alternatives that we are elaborating."
There is already the F87 M2 CS Racing (not street legal). With the F87 M2 EOP (end of production) scheduled for June 2021, it's getting pretty late to start elaborating an F87 M2 CSL project. If an F87 M2 CSL doesn't exist yet or is not yet in the works right now, then it won't come. Except if they lazily make Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 tires and M-CCB standard + throw in bucket seats, a roll cage, a fire extinguisher and add a CSL badge on the boot of the "very lightweight" M2 CS. Anyways, those with an M2 CS on order might think "Say what ?!" when hearing this.
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      04-18-2020, 08:21 PM   #8
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What's the story with this sandwich design roof?
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      04-18-2020, 08:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
What's the story with this sandwich design roof?
4 kg weight saving because of CFRP roof - sandwich-structured composite (BMW: "you can stand on the new roof - you cannot stand on the previous one"). Fringe benefit: you can play chess or chequers on it.



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      04-18-2020, 09:00 PM   #10
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The roof might be the least understood but most advanced addition to this model.
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      04-18-2020, 09:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
[*]03:27: "it's also a robust investment; our limited edition cars have always proven to be very robust investments": seen the M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS prices lately ?[/LIST]
It will be interesting to see what the future holds and if history will be 'kind' to the M2CS. In the USA at least, if we look back, some of the most desirable NOW ///M3 models were total sales duds for their time. Some examples:
  • E30 M3 - was sitting in US showroom as it was considered over-priced and under-cylinder'ed (long standing American belief is 'no replacement for displacement' - it literally needed 'trunk money' to get moved with the 6-cyl E30 325i selling well)
  • E36 M3 LTW - dealers couldn't give them away, and recently several just sold for 6 digits (granted some belonged to Paul Walker, but been a huge price spikes on those). Keep in mind these also did not come with the Euro engine (in fact the lackluster sales of the E30 M3 was the sole reason why we got a very watered down E36 M3 for the USA)
  • E92 Lime Rock Edition - nothing other than a cosmetic Fire orange paint (which you could spec through BMW Individual), and a handful of M Performance catalog parts - sat on dealer lots for long and sold with meaningful discounts, yet there is a significant premium for these now (200 total, only 50 in manual)

I reckon the M2 CS will do well with time.
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      04-18-2020, 09:47 PM   #12
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PS: Juxtapose these statements to Flasch's 'peer' from Porsche - Andreas Preuninger, who came on record stating 'We're not a hedge fund', in reference to Porsche planing to curtail speculators and flippers.

That's why you saw the GT3 Touring emerge, which very quickly cooled off the 911 R market (to the point that the R is just a shade above MSRP these days, vs a multiple of such not that long ago)

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/05/30/...speculators-a/
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      04-18-2020, 10:21 PM   #13
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This guy seemed more of a businessman than msport enthusiast
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      04-18-2020, 11:21 PM   #14
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I thought I was going mad for a minute as the wheels kept changing colour and that ugly reflector kept coming and going along with what seemed like a subtle change in ride height (maybe an illusion).

Jeez those red callipers look good with the gloss black wheels. Not normally a fan of dark wheels but the gloss makes them really stand out instead of giving the lost hubcaps look.
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      04-18-2020, 11:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Fringe benefit: you can play chess or chequers on it.
Ha! I'm just imagining the year long stale mate having to chase down your opponent when they only have one piece left, on a board as big as the roof lol.
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      04-18-2020, 11:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
What's the story with this sandwich design roof?
4 kg weight saving because of CFRP roof - sandwich-structured composite (BMW: "you can stand on the new roof - you cannot stand on the previous one"). Fringe benefit: you can play chess or chequers on it.



Needs gloss paint.

It looks absolutely horrible.

I don't care if you can stand on it or not.
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      04-18-2020, 11:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
I thought I was going mad for a minute as the wheels kept changing colour and that ugly reflector kept coming and going along with what seemed like a subtle change in ride height (maybe an illusion).
Thanks to the US's archaic automotive lighting rules from 1968, that was never revised, only North American-spec vehicles requires those orange reflectors, on the side of the front bumper.

That's how I tell vehicles apart from each region.

I was watching a rap video recently with a 3 million dollar Bugatti in it and even that was marred with side markers... :

The ROW are given clean bumpers without reflectors and illuminated side markers.
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      04-18-2020, 11:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Needs gloss paint.

It looks absolutely horrible.

I don't care if you can stand on it or not.
I think it looks fantastic.
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      04-19-2020, 12:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Needs gloss paint.

It looks absolutely horrible.

I don't care if you can stand on it or not.
I think it looks fantastic.
Not if you've installed real carbon fiber on your car.

Clearly a cost cutting move on BMW's part.
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      04-19-2020, 09:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
What's the story with this sandwich design roof?
4 kg weight saving because of CFRP roof - sandwich-structured composite (BMW: "you can stand on the new roof - you cannot stand on the previous one"). Fringe benefit: you can play chess or chequers on it.
Do we know why the new structural design required a different aesthetic design?
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      04-19-2020, 11:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
Do we know why the new structural design required a different aesthetic design?
In my limited carbon fiber research I found that the larger mesh is stronger. Unsure if this pattern costs less it more, or if the process is less or more costly.

Edit:. When watching the BMW carbon fiber roof production process there is a scene where they throw away the leftover fabric. The large weave pattern can clearly identified. My guess is that this weave is used in the other roofs, but not as much of it.

Found some more info.

Spread tow carbon fiber is a very specific design of fabric, and the rarest seen of all we will discuss. Spread tow means that the filaments of carbon ranging from 3,000 to 12,000 per tow are laid out next to each other for the thinnest ribbon of carbon. Conventional tows are bunched up with many layers of carbon filaments. Spread tow fabrics are identified by large open patterns. The checkerboard pattern of a bidirectional carbon fiber, with spread tow construction, may have squares measuring one inch across.


Because the large tow size forces a looser pattern, the over-under weave points are spread apart. By spreading apart the tow crossover, the frequency of direction change is greatly reduced, and the fabric can lay much more flat over a surface.

As described by Easy Composites, a UK based supplier of materials and resins, “Spread tow fabrics are gaining popularity in advanced composites applications because of their incredibly flat profile which almost eliminates ‘print through’ or texturing of precise surfaces (like aircraft wings).”

Because the resulting plies of fabric are so much thinner, more layers must be employed to achieve the same strength. Often used in applications where aerodynamics are a priority over strength, spread tow carbon fiber has a distinct aesthetic that people either love, or hate.



https://www.turnology.com/tech-stori...in-composites/

https://www.compositesworld.com/arti...-of-spread-tow

Cost seems highly dependent upon fabric weight. For equal weight fabric the spread toe is less expensive.

https://store.acpsales.com/categorie...-carbon-fiber-








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Last edited by medphysdave; 04-19-2020 at 12:25 PM..
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      04-19-2020, 12:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Edit:. When watching the BMW carbon fiber roof production process there is a scene where they throw away the leftover fabric. The large weave pattern can clearly identified. My guess is that this weave is used in the other roofs, but not as much of it.
Name:  BMW_CFRP.png
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