1M Owner Test Drive M2C, Comparison

Phil-on-Cars · 09-25-2019, 12:28 AM

Hello everyone, I went to the BMWUSA test drive event @ The Club at Pasadera (aka Nicklaus Golf Club) during Monterey Car Week.
I know, I should have posted this long time ago, but it's been busy...

I post this impression simply because I like the M2C a lot, and would like to share my impressions as a 1M owner. I have my 1M now for 3 years, put 4k miles on it. (weekend car). I daily a e90 n55 6mt.

I've been wandering around on 1addicts, e90posts, f87 forums for a long time, but I actually just registered recently and it's the first time I actually written a drive impression. So any suggestions/improvements are welcome. All pics are from my iphone, not touched.

Also, impressions is personal thought, it's like you like red cars I like blue ones, you like burger I like sandwich, it's personal preference, so don't judge/troll/hatred reply please.

If you want more info about this event, it is written after the comparison.

They allowed the guest to drive alone. And they suggested a nice stretch of mountain road, in total it is an 20 mins test drive. I like all those because I can concentrate more on driving when I drive alone, and that piece of mountain road is actually really great fun to drive, and good test to see how the car feels.

Comparison between M2C and 1M:

Update:

Driving impressions:

My 1M is pretty much stock. PSS tire, tire size not changed.
I changed OE charge pipe to ER charge pipe. No tune.
Everything else stock.
(Thinking of getting maddad mid pipe + Borla atak muffler though, if any 1M owner has this setup, please upload a clip

)

Air temp when I drive my 1m is mostly between 10C - 20C (50F - 70F). I drove the M2C on a hot day, I think around 30C (85F).
M2C is DCT.

Engine:

Power:
The n54 in 1M is powerful, it feels more powerful than the number suggests (340PS, 500 NM (369 lbft)).
Based on my personal experience, I think air temp plays a sensitive factor when it comes to modern BMW turbo engines.
M2C is also very powerful, it feels a bit faster than 1M in straight line on my test drive (hot day). (Also 3655 lbs DCT m2c vs 3295 6mt 1M)
But if the air temp is around same, imo S55 will be a lot faster in straight line than 1M.
(Also I think DCT takes away a little bit of sense of speed...)

Overall feel:
Due to lightened flywheel in 1M, (1.4 kg lighter flywheel than normal N54), I think 1M feels more eager/faster to rev than S55.
To my surprise, these two engines has very similar characteristics.
But the S55 feels a bit more special than the N54 in my opinion. It could be because the higher redline.

Smoothness/Refinement of engine:
N54 in 1M feels extremely smooth, silky smooth, which I love. (I never driven other n54 car. So I don't know other n54 applications. )
No vibration what so ever. And it is as smooth at 2k rpm as at 6k - 7K rpm, which I find amazing.

I thoroughly drove (pounded) an M4 on track for a whole day. It also felt pretty smooth, but imo not as perfectly smooth as 1M.
However, I felt like the S55 in my test M2C must have some kind of problem, it felt a little rough, if 10 is perfectly smooth, and 1 being unbelievably rough, 1M could be 9.5, other S55 I drove is maybe 9, that S55 in m2C felt like maybe 6 or 7.
A couple people had test driven this M2C before me, so when I drive it, it was totally in operating temperature.
No weird noise at all, just running rough throughout the whole test drive.
So idk, I think it could be just a defect.

Throttle response:
The throttle response in 1M is so fast, it's like almost no lag (especially when M button pressed ). Yes more power would appear after 3k rpm, but even before 3k, N54 reacts to tiny throttle input very well. If you tune your N54, you might disagree with me.
1M power feel totally decent and plentiful, and I like its linearity. That's why I didn't put a tune (like MHD or JB4) on my 1M, because I thought although a tune would definitely make more power, the power delivery / throttle response could be changed which is not what I want. But again, personal preference.

In sport+ or sport throttle setting in M2C, I find the S55 can easily make more power with very little throttle input. But it is way too sensitive. It's like first 10% of pedal movement outputs 50% of power. In straight line, it feels great. But I don't want sudden huge wave of power and torque on mountain roads.
If you dial throttle setting back to comfort or eco (I can't remember name), I felt S55 doesn't react to small throttle inputs/adjustments as nicely as N54 in 1M.
In some ways, S55 feels like more heavily turbo charged than N54.

Sound (beaten to death topic):

I would give N54 engine tone a 7.5 out of 10, S55 a 6.5 out of 10.
N54 exhaust tone a 7/10. But way too quiet. S55 exhaust tone a 6/10.
imho, N55 sounds the best among the three bmw turbo motors..... (I daily drive N55 with MPE and MPPK. again personal preference. ) Maybe a 7.5 - 8 /10.

Overall in cabin, the 1M is louder than other none M car from same era, but generally speaking, pretty muted.
When I was in M2C cabin, the sound is really loud, (maybe because of the ASD), let's say at least 50% louder than 1M, maybe more.
I totally understand why people bypass ASD. But I find ASD does not sound too bad, livable.
If I have an M2C, bypassing ASD would not be the first thing that I do. I don't love it, but I don't hate it.

Transmission:

1M's 6MT feels pretty good. Shorter and more slick than my e90 335i 6mt.
It feels more slick, shorter and easier to go into gear than MK7 Golf R (plasticky), NC and ND miata (way tooo plasticky and like a cheap toy, sorry miata fans, miata is great and light car, I just don't like its transmission), and some Subaru manuals that I have driven.
But not as good as honda s2000 tranny.

The M2C I drove has DCT. Super fast to shift. I like it a lot. Only complains are it takes away some involvement (of course), and somehow it makes me feel the speed comes really easily, so I somehow lost a little sense of speed.
The other small complain is I haven't driven any none manual car for like 3 years. When I drive this M2C, I just can't easily tell which gear I am in.
I know it's shown in dash, but I have to look for the small number in dash. If it's manual, I can tell which gear I'm in by touching gear lever/shifter, I can focus more on road.
I know I'm nitpicking......

Handling:

Size and weight:

M2C feels larger than 1M (25.4 mm or 1 inch longer in wheelbase), noticeable but only by a little.
I wish F87 is smaller, but hey we can't have everything.
M2C definitely feels heavier than 1M, 3655 lbs vs 3295 lbs, 360 lbs (163 kg) difference on paper.
In reality my butt dyno says the weight difference between two car is not as huge as it sounds like; it feels more like around 100kg or 220 lbs. More power & torque from S55 definitely helps a little.

Chassis and Suspension:
I like the fact that both 1M and M2C has non-adjustable suspension.
I didn't drive 1M and M2C on same piece of road, so I'm not 100% solid about my following comments, but most of them should be valid.

1M is not a floppy or loose car at all, in fact, I feel 1M chassis is totally solid and direct, and has very little body lean. Body movement is very well controlled, extremely tossable and is very confidence inspiring.
M2C has a bit less body lean than 1M. One thing that totally amazed me is how structurally strong the front end of M2C feels. I never ever thought 1M front end is not direct or strong enough, but M2C front end feels like a solid piece of metal.

Balance (weight distribution, and damping/suspension setting) of both car is just amazing.
Trail braking into a corner, and slowly apply throttle coming out of it, it feels great in both cars.
If you don't want tidy driving, instead, you want a bit of drifty drifty, they can do both. My 1M does that brilliantly, and a lot. I didn't managed to get tail out in M2C, but I didn't turn TC fully off, I only did MDM. Maybe also M2C has grippier tires. But I believe M2C had no problem as well.

Both cars just go around corner without drama as long as you don't do anything stupid, like heavy braking in the middle of corner, or going into corner at 150 mph, or full throttle without knowing how to adjust throttle or catch and control a slide, both car are just so friendly and tolerant. Confidence inspiring, it's the best compliant I can give to a sporty car.

Steering:
Both steering is extremely direct. Each millimeter of steering movement will result in a clear and determined direction change. 1M has hydraulic steering which gives it advantage over M2C because all kinds of detail is delivered into driver's hands.

But I have to say, M2C steering is not far behind at all. Probably the best electric steering wheel system I have driven, and I have driven a LOT of cars (I haven't driven 991 gt3 so idk about latest P car EPAS, I heard they are great. ) Also combined with the strong front end, M2C is just so confidence inspiring in corners.

Maybe due to shorter wheelbase and (felt like) faster steering rack, 1M felt more active, nimble and lively underfoot (not by much).

Braking:
M2C comes with 2NH for all US cars (upgraded braking package over N55 M2), I think 6 pot front, 4 pot back? I'm not sure, correct me if i'm wrong. 1M has same braking package as E9X M3, which is single piston. And I heard many people shit on 1M brakes. In reality, if you are a track rat/veteran , you are gonna upgrade braking fluid and pads and maybe even disks no matter what the OEM brake is. And if you're not tracking, 1M brake is totally adequate imo.

Brakes on both car provide strong braking power, I never find the limit of 1M brakes cooked or lose braking power. (Well, I only drive my 1M on road, not track. ) During a spirited 20-mins mountain drive, I didn't reach the limit of M2C brakes either. Again, both strong and confidence inspiring.

Grip / Traction:

My 1M is on PSS, my 335i got PS4S, idk what tire the M2C got. (sorry I forgot to look. )
I turn TC fully off in my 1M most of time. I did MDM in M2C most of time (I don't wanna wreck a car that doesn't belong to me) (well, I don't wanna wreck any car).

In straight line, when tire is warm (lets say after 30 mins of pretty fast driving), I can still easily spin wheel in 1st and 2nd gear in 1M, sometimes even in 3rd.

In M2C, at the end of my test drive on an empty straight road, I turn TC fully off to see how easy/hard to spin tires in M2C. Result is I can barely spin tires in 1st gear with some tire scream. Not possible in 2nd. With more power/torque and same tire width/size, I don't know why it's harder to spin tire. I can only think of maybe M2C tire compound is more grippy, and maybe hotter temp?

In fact, I don't like to spin tires. The reason why I did that in my 1M and M2C test car is because it is my method to see how grippy or not grippy the grip/traction condition is. And that gives me an idea of how hard I can/cannot push the car.

So based on my limited observation of M2C, I find 1M a lot easier to slide its tail out.
Well, limited slip differential definitely play a big factor here. But in street driving, I definitely find 1M easier to slide and asks more from the driver (reflection, and ability to control a slide) (otherwise, just keep TC on, but what's the fun in that

).

Non Driving comparison:

Looks:

Some say the exterior of 1M is a face that only the mother can love. Well, I'm that mother.

I love M2C exterior as well, I think the new connected kidney grill looks best on black M2C. But overall, M2C is very handsome and aggressive, which I love.
Needless to say, I love Valencia Orange, in some lighting, sunset orange really looks like VO, maybe even has stronger orange color than VO, which I love. But other times, SO is a bit too copper for my liking....
Old topic, and personal preference, no further discussion from me.

Interior:
I didn't take any interior pics of M2C, I just sat in and drove lol.
Undeniably, M2C feels newer because the infotainment (Nav screen, full digital dashboard). My 1M didn't have nav. I also like the exposed carbon trim in M2C.
I wish the dokota leather in both cars feels better. But I don't mind that much.

Seats:
They all hold you very well. But I feel the seats in 1M (same sport seats in any E9X, E8X 1 and 3 series) offer better side bolster support at the lower back, pelvis area, while side bolster of M2C seats (aka all F8X M3/4 seats) mainly hold one's mid back, ribs area. Therefore sometimes I felt M2C seats blocks some of my shoulder/arm movement a little bit.

Looks wise M2C seats looks newer/fancier. Also, my 1M comes with manual seats, which I believe sits 10 mm lower than electric seats. (I truly don't understand why m2c doesn't come with manual adjust option is USA...)
Seating position are both great, but I felt like maybe M2C is a bit higher than 1M.
If I have to pick one, I prefer 1M seats which holds my side lower back area. Maybe if I own a M2C, I would get used to it. again, personal preference / different shape of body.

photo credit: bmwusa.com

Gauge/Dash:
I have to say, although M2C LCI digital dash looks pretty good, (much better than F90 digital dash imho), I like analog needles. Maybe BMW just tried really hard to improve and impress people who keep saying BMW interior is too old.

Steering wheel:
I love both. It's a tie between the two. They both have similar diameter which is small, leather feels great on both wheel. They are both on the thick side, but I don't mind at all.
I also like that they are both round and not flat bottom.

Conclusion:
It's pretty late again, maybe I forgot to write something, and I will add in later when I remember.
I didn't know I had this much to say about these two cars.
But if you made it to the end, thank you very much for reading.

Generally speaking, both cars are brilliant baby M cars. They can both do tidy fast stuff, and both can offer a wild slidey ride.
I probably mentioned some negatives in my post about either car, but at the end of the day, they are all nitpicking and both are already brilliant as it is.
(Okay rant about weight is not nitpicking, if they could made lighter, I would love them even more. )

1M is a great car, it involves you, and likes to play with you, and extremely tossable. It asks a little bit more from the driver comparing to M2C. And something that M2C doesn't have (or no current M car has) is 163 kg (360 lbs ) lighter in stock form, and a little bit smaller (actually the only M car that has smaller wheelbase than 1M is E30 M3, Z3M Z4M coupe).

M2C is just also great. It feels more refined, but still totally fun and involving. In my mind, something M2C has and 1M doesn't have is a more solid front end structure, more refined interior, and more sophisticated LSD. Maybe a bit too grippy for my liking though; it has more track capability, but lost some fun at the same time. Also it can come with DCT, so more choices for more people.

If one is in the market looking for a small fun rwd, I think you can't go wrong with either 1M or M2C (maybe also M2). I know, cliche.
Actually, after my 335i retires, I might grab a black M2C with 6mt. (Or a M2CS

)

Thanks guys for reading.

Information about the event.

The location and environment is just great. Kudos to BMW!! Nice car selections, nice environment, and nice atmosphere. I would give the whole event a 8.5 out of 10. The score would be higher if it didn't get so crowded so quickly. Test drive is first come first serve, that's why I only managed to drive M2C and M5C. I really wanted to drive X3M because S58, also I wanted to drive B6 because I always love Alpina but didn't get a chance.

Test Drive car fleet (if I remember correctly) has M2C, M4 Coupe, M4 vert, M5C, B6, 745e?(the hybrid one), 850, z4 30i, I8 coupe, and I8 roadster, and X3M X4M (maybe X5) and X7 50i. And for each model, there are a couple of cars available.

B7 is shown but I don't think it's available for test drive.

ASAP · 09-25-2019, 06:21 AM

Really need to hear the driving impressions.... as far as the LCI gauges, I think it's a large step forward... the car does not need a full digital dash but electronic gauges certainly help.

My main driving impression was overall extremely positive... the car has great size, great tossability and handled super well. The only negative that I could take away was that it was not as fast straight line as the M3 / M4 I had driven. They clearly differentiate the cars by the top end power.

BroDoze · 09-25-2019, 07:39 AM

Pics aren’t showing...

pizza240 · 09-25-2019, 12:14 PM

I also give BMWs a 10/10 on steering wheel roundness.

CosmosMpower · 09-25-2019, 03:30 PM

You forgot the best part the M2C has a S55, the 1M has a turd N54.

FreeDarko · 09-25-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You forgot the best part the M2C has a S55, the 1M has a turd N54.

I had that N54 before when the 335 first came out.

Thought it was ridiculously good!! Especially on a lively car as the 1M.

chris719 · 09-25-2019, 10:18 PM

Nothing wrong with N54 from a performance standpoint. It's not the most responsive engine when you compare it to S54 or S65, but it's good. The only problem with it is long term reliability.

Karmic Man · 09-26-2019, 08:53 AM

I had so much issues (oil gasket leaks, excessive carbon build up, injectors failure, vanos faults, cam shafts and bearings replaced) with the N54 in the 1M that I sold it.

Performance aside the S55 is heaps more responsive and reliable. There is no comparison

Phil-on-Cars · 09-26-2019, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

Nothing wrong with N54 from a performance standpoint. It's not the most responsive engine when you compare it to S54 or S65, but it's good. The only problem with it is long term reliability.

I agree, of course not as responsive as S54 or S65, but very good for turbo motor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

I had so much issues (oil gasket leaks, excessive carbon build up, injectors failure, vanos faults, cam shafts and bearings replaced) with the N54 in the 1M that I sold it.

Performance aside the S55 is heaps more responsive and reliable. There is no comparison

I feel ur pain bro. I guess N54 reliability could be lottery? I heard many people didn't have any issue (or minimum issue), but some people just had nightmare trying to keep N54 running, reliability can be especially bad with previous owners' negligence on maintenance (if there's any, thats the risk of buying any used car). or just bad luck

Poochie · 09-26-2019, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You forgot the best part the M2C has a S55, the 1M has a turd N54.

You obviously never had a vehicle with a N54 motor; aside from its water pump issue, that motor was an absolute gem.

All forged internals, Piezoelectric injectors and two turbos, it paved the way for what the S55 is today and put BMW on the map for hidden power potential.

akkando · 09-26-2019, 03:30 PM

The m2 LCI gauges are analogue, just backlit so they look digital to untrained eye.

Phil-on-Cars · 09-26-2019, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akkando

The m2 LCI gauges are analogue, just backlit so they look digital to untrained eye.

infinitekidM2C · 09-26-2019, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

You obviously never had a vehicle with a N54 motor; aside from its water pump issue, that motor was an absolute gem.

All forged internals, Piezoelectric injectors and two turbos, it paved the way for what the S55 is today and put BMW on the map for hidden power potential.

yep yep
modded n54 over here. water pump yeah i replaced a couple times, and the usual maintenance stuff, plugs and whatnot. Did have some oil leaks though but more likely because i didnt take care of the oil seals enough. It's like a tile shower, you gotta redo the seals every once in a while or you'll have leaks. Ask me how i know!

10" · 09-26-2019, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil-on-Cars

I agree, of course not as responsive as S54 or S65, but very good for turbo motor.

I feel ur pain bro. I guess N54 reliability could be lottery? I heard many people didn't have any issue (or minimum issue), but some people just had nightmare trying to keep N54 running, reliability can be especially bad with previous owners' negligence on maintenance (if there's any, thats the risk of buying any used car). or just bad luck

the N54 is a MORE responsive engine than the S65, IMO. The N54 is one of the finest engines BMW have made in the past 25 years which explains the cult following it has. Without the N54 there would be NO S55.

Most of the problems with the N54 have been ironed out and people who are aware of them can easily handle them. With over 90k miles on my car i have 0 complaints about the engine. It still feels tight and alive.

BTW good write up man.

chris719 · 09-26-2019, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10"

the N54 is a MORE responsive engine than the S65, IMO. The N54 is one of the finest engines BMW have made in the past 25 years which explains the cult following it has. Without the N54 there would be NO S55.

Most of the problems with the N54 have been ironed out and people who are aware of them can easily handle them. With over 90k miles on my car i have 0 complaints about the engine. It still feels tight and alive.

BTW good write up man.

The N54 is a fine engine, but it's not as responsive as an S65, not even close. You might be confusing throttle mapping / pedal sensitivity with responsiveness. The S65 is a NA V8 with 8 throttle bodies. The N54 is a twin turbo engine with one throttle body and doesn't even have valvetronic like the N55.

KevinM · 09-26-2019, 10:51 PM

Thanks for your thoughts. I had a lot of seat time in my friend's 1M and really enjoyed it. I almost bought it from him, but wanted to do a European Delivery and so ended up with a F80 ZCP, from which I transitioned to the M2C. As you did, I find many similarities between the cars.

I find it quite easy to spin the M2C's tires even in MDM mode, not that I try to do this often...

. I like the S55 in the M2C even more than I did in the F80, and I am not sure why this is. It just seems more responsive; it must be in my head. Just as an FYI, all M2Cs are delivered with PSS. When these wear out, I will fit PS4s.

I agree with you on the M2C's electronic steering. I think it is quite good, even better than my 2016 F80. I have been driving BMWs since 1999 and still have the Z4M coupe and E39 M5, so I understand how good BMW hydraulic steering is (my favorite steering is probably my previous 2002 E39 530 MT). I'm surprised that some car pundits (C&D, etc.) continue to bang on about how horrible the M2Cs steering is. Truthfully, I"m wondering if I just don't notice or care or said pundits have an axe to grind. I drove a 718 Cayman before I ordered the M2C, and I honestly find the steering comparable. But of course, I am not a professional reviewer.

Enjoy the 1M!

Robin_NL · 09-27-2019, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10"

the N54 is a MORE responsive engine than the S65, IMO. The N54 is one of the finest engines BMW have made in the past 25 years which explains the cult following it has. Without the N54 there would be NO S55.

Most of the problems with the N54 have been ironed out and people who are aware of them can easily handle them. With over 90k miles on my car i have 0 complaints about the engine. It still feels tight and alive.

BTW good write up man.

This.
N54 is way underrated, S65 abit overrated in my book(had 1M and E90 M3 6MT in the past) because when 'mated to' the E9x body/chassis it's like the S65 didn't want that in the first place. It wanted to be in a Z3/Z4....

God I hated the long gearing in M3 E90, no grunt at all midrange, but that's also because E90 weighed way too much. S65 is nice engine but not for a piggy saloon like E90.

Cheers
Robin

rj45m · 09-27-2019, 06:19 AM

Great review! Thanks.

FreeDarko · 09-27-2019, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10"

the N54 is a MORE responsive engine than the S65, IMO. The N54 is one of the finest engines BMW have made in the past 25 years which explains the cult following it has. Without the N54 there would be NO S55.

Most of the problems with the N54 have been ironed out and people who are aware of them can easily handle them. With over 90k miles on my car i have 0 complaints about the engine. It still feels tight and alive.

BTW good write up man.

This.
N54 is way underrated, S65 abit overrated in my book(had 1M and E90 M3 6MT in the past) because when 'mated to' the E9x body/chassis it's like the S65 didn't want that in the first place. It wanted to be in a Z3/Z4....

God I hated the long gearing in M3 E90, no grunt at all midrange, but that's also because E90 weighed way too much. S65 is nice engine but not for a piggy saloon like E90.

Cheers
Robin

All true but N54 is not even remotely close to as responsive of an engine as the S65.

Agreed, the S65 in a Z car chassis or the 1M chassis like member ilikebmx did would have been more appropriate.

10" · 09-27-2019, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10"

the N54 is a MORE responsive engine than the S65, IMO. The N54 is one of the finest engines BMW have made in the past 25 years which explains the cult following it has. Without the N54 there would be NO S55.

Most of the problems with the N54 have been ironed out and people who are aware of them can easily handle them. With over 90k miles on my car i have 0 complaints about the engine. It still feels tight and alive.

BTW good write up man.

This.
N54 is way underrated, S65 abit overrated in my book(had 1M and E90 M3 6MT in the past) because when 'mated to' the E9x body/chassis it's like the S65 didn't want that in the first place. It wanted to be in a Z3/Z4....

God I hated the long gearing in M3 E90, no grunt at all midrange, but that's also because E90 weighed way too much. S65 is nice engine but not for a piggy saloon like E90.

Cheers
Robin

Totally agreed. The S65 is definitely overrated. I'm very glad the 1M came with an N54 rather than the S65. Hated the gearing on the E9X as well. I like urgency and purpose and to me driving the 1M and E9X back to back felt like a young punk (1M) and a stockbroker (M3). I prefer young punk.

BMW ended up doubling down on the N54 formula big time when they made the S55; which is essentially a further developed idea based on the N54.

M3GymNut · 09-27-2019, 08:51 AM

Great write up!

Funny you mentioned the S2000 transmission. Best manuals I've driven have been from Honda and Acura without question. Like butter.

Robin_NL · 09-28-2019, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeDarko

All true but N54 is not even remotely close to as responsive of an engine as the S65.

Responsive as in: Between 2000 and 4500rpm responsive? Almost nothing happened in E90 M3 6MT when I floored it.

I do understand what you mean. But S65 is not even remotely close as powerful(usable power) in a broad rev-range as N54/N55 and certainly S55.

It's a sort of racy engine but misses torque, that's a pity imo.

The way N54/55/S55 kick in (wheelspin galore etc) make you be aware much more and gives me way more satisfaction, than ALWAYS revving it to beyond 6000rpm in real life to get some effective speed out of it.

Porsche knows how to build smaller 6 pot NA engines(997S 2005 , great engine, lots of torque)

On trackdays it's ok off course.

Cheers
Robin

09-25-2019, 12:28 AM	#1
Phil-on-Cars New Member 27 Rep 28 Posts Drives: 11' E90 335i 6MT, 1M Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: US iTrader: (0)	1M Owner Test Drive M2C, Comparison Hello everyone, I went to the BMWUSA test drive event @ The Club at Pasadera (aka Nicklaus Golf Club) during Monterey Car Week. I know, I should have posted this long time ago, but it's been busy... I post this impression simply because I like the M2C a lot, and would like to share my impressions as a 1M owner. I have my 1M now for 3 years, put 4k miles on it. (weekend car). I daily a e90 n55 6mt. I've been wandering around on 1addicts, e90posts, f87 forums for a long time, but I actually just registered recently and it's the first time I actually written a drive impression. So any suggestions/improvements are welcome. All pics are from my iphone, not touched. Also, impressions is personal thought, it's like you like red cars I like blue ones, you like burger I like sandwich, it's personal preference, so don't judge/troll/hatred reply please. If you want more info about this event, it is written after the comparison. They allowed the guest to drive alone. And they suggested a nice stretch of mountain road, in total it is an 20 mins test drive. I like all those because I can concentrate more on driving when I drive alone, and that piece of mountain road is actually really great fun to drive, and good test to see how the car feels. Comparison between M2C and 1M: Update: Driving impressions: My 1M is pretty much stock. PSS tire, tire size not changed. I changed OE charge pipe to ER charge pipe. No tune. Everything else stock. (Thinking of getting maddad mid pipe + Borla atak muffler though, if any 1M owner has this setup, please upload a clip) Air temp when I drive my 1m is mostly between 10C - 20C (50F - 70F). I drove the M2C on a hot day, I think around 30C (85F). M2C is DCT. Engine: Power: The n54 in 1M is powerful, it feels more powerful than the number suggests (340PS, 500 NM (369 lbft)). Based on my personal experience, I think air temp plays a sensitive factor when it comes to modern BMW turbo engines. M2C is also very powerful, it feels a bit faster than 1M in straight line on my test drive (hot day). (Also 3655 lbs DCT m2c vs 3295 6mt 1M) But if the air temp is around same, imo S55 will be a lot faster in straight line than 1M. (Also I think DCT takes away a little bit of sense of speed...) Overall feel: Due to lightened flywheel in 1M, (1.4 kg lighter flywheel than normal N54), I think 1M feels more eager/faster to rev than S55. To my surprise, these two engines has very similar characteristics. But the S55 feels a bit more special than the N54 in my opinion. It could be because the higher redline. Smoothness/Refinement of engine: N54 in 1M feels extremely smooth, silky smooth, which I love. (I never driven other n54 car. So I don't know other n54 applications. ) No vibration what so ever. And it is as smooth at 2k rpm as at 6k - 7K rpm, which I find amazing. I thoroughly drove (pounded) an M4 on track for a whole day. It also felt pretty smooth, but imo not as perfectly smooth as 1M. However, I felt like the S55 in my test M2C must have some kind of problem, it felt a little rough, if 10 is perfectly smooth, and 1 being unbelievably rough, 1M could be 9.5, other S55 I drove is maybe 9, that S55 in m2C felt like maybe 6 or 7. A couple people had test driven this M2C before me, so when I drive it, it was totally in operating temperature. No weird noise at all, just running rough throughout the whole test drive. So idk, I think it could be just a defect. Throttle response: The throttle response in 1M is so fast, it's like almost no lag (especially when M button pressed ). Yes more power would appear after 3k rpm, but even before 3k, N54 reacts to tiny throttle input very well. If you tune your N54, you might disagree with me. 1M power feel totally decent and plentiful, and I like its linearity. That's why I didn't put a tune (like MHD or JB4) on my 1M, because I thought although a tune would definitely make more power, the power delivery / throttle response could be changed which is not what I want. But again, personal preference. In sport+ or sport throttle setting in M2C, I find the S55 can easily make more power with very little throttle input. But it is way too sensitive. It's like first 10% of pedal movement outputs 50% of power. In straight line, it feels great. But I don't want sudden huge wave of power and torque on mountain roads. If you dial throttle setting back to comfort or eco (I can't remember name), I felt S55 doesn't react to small throttle inputs/adjustments as nicely as N54 in 1M. In some ways, S55 feels like more heavily turbo charged than N54. Sound (beaten to death topic): I would give N54 engine tone a 7.5 out of 10, S55 a 6.5 out of 10. N54 exhaust tone a 7/10. But way too quiet. S55 exhaust tone a 6/10. imho, N55 sounds the best among the three bmw turbo motors..... (I daily drive N55 with MPE and MPPK. again personal preference. ) Maybe a 7.5 - 8 /10. Overall in cabin, the 1M is louder than other none M car from same era, but generally speaking, pretty muted. When I was in M2C cabin, the sound is really loud, (maybe because of the ASD), let's say at least 50% louder than 1M, maybe more. I totally understand why people bypass ASD. But I find ASD does not sound too bad, livable. If I have an M2C, bypassing ASD would not be the first thing that I do. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. Transmission: 1M's 6MT feels pretty good. Shorter and more slick than my e90 335i 6mt. It feels more slick, shorter and easier to go into gear than MK7 Golf R (plasticky), NC and ND miata (way tooo plasticky and like a cheap toy, sorry miata fans, miata is great and light car, I just don't like its transmission), and some Subaru manuals that I have driven. But not as good as honda s2000 tranny. The M2C I drove has DCT. Super fast to shift. I like it a lot. Only complains are it takes away some involvement (of course), and somehow it makes me feel the speed comes really easily, so I somehow lost a little sense of speed. The other small complain is I haven't driven any none manual car for like 3 years. When I drive this M2C, I just can't easily tell which gear I am in. I know it's shown in dash, but I have to look for the small number in dash. If it's manual, I can tell which gear I'm in by touching gear lever/shifter, I can focus more on road. I know I'm nitpicking...... Handling: Size and weight: M2C feels larger than 1M (25.4 mm or 1 inch longer in wheelbase), noticeable but only by a little. I wish F87 is smaller, but hey we can't have everything. M2C definitely feels heavier than 1M, 3655 lbs vs 3295 lbs, 360 lbs (163 kg) difference on paper. In reality my butt dyno says the weight difference between two car is not as huge as it sounds like; it feels more like around 100kg or 220 lbs. More power & torque from S55 definitely helps a little. Chassis and Suspension: I like the fact that both 1M and M2C has non-adjustable suspension. I didn't drive 1M and M2C on same piece of road, so I'm not 100% solid about my following comments, but most of them should be valid. 1M is not a floppy or loose car at all, in fact, I feel 1M chassis is totally solid and direct, and has very little body lean. Body movement is very well controlled, extremely tossable and is very confidence inspiring. M2C has a bit less body lean than 1M. One thing that totally amazed me is how structurally strong the front end of M2C feels. I never ever thought 1M front end is not direct or strong enough, but M2C front end feels like a solid piece of metal. Balance (weight distribution, and damping/suspension setting) of both car is just amazing. Trail braking into a corner, and slowly apply throttle coming out of it, it feels great in both cars. If you don't want tidy driving, instead, you want a bit of drifty drifty, they can do both. My 1M does that brilliantly, and a lot. I didn't managed to get tail out in M2C, but I didn't turn TC fully off, I only did MDM. Maybe also M2C has grippier tires. But I believe M2C had no problem as well. Both cars just go around corner without drama as long as you don't do anything stupid, like heavy braking in the middle of corner, or going into corner at 150 mph, or full throttle without knowing how to adjust throttle or catch and control a slide, both car are just so friendly and tolerant. Confidence inspiring, it's the best compliant I can give to a sporty car. Steering: Both steering is extremely direct. Each millimeter of steering movement will result in a clear and determined direction change. 1M has hydraulic steering which gives it advantage over M2C because all kinds of detail is delivered into driver's hands. But I have to say, M2C steering is not far behind at all. Probably the best electric steering wheel system I have driven, and I have driven a LOT of cars (I haven't driven 991 gt3 so idk about latest P car EPAS, I heard they are great. ) Also combined with the strong front end, M2C is just so confidence inspiring in corners. Maybe due to shorter wheelbase and (felt like) faster steering rack, 1M felt more active, nimble and lively underfoot (not by much). Braking: M2C comes with 2NH for all US cars (upgraded braking package over N55 M2), I think 6 pot front, 4 pot back? I'm not sure, correct me if i'm wrong. 1M has same braking package as E9X M3, which is single piston. And I heard many people shit on 1M brakes. In reality, if you are a track rat/veteran , you are gonna upgrade braking fluid and pads and maybe even disks no matter what the OEM brake is. And if you're not tracking, 1M brake is totally adequate imo. Brakes on both car provide strong braking power, I never find the limit of 1M brakes cooked or lose braking power. (Well, I only drive my 1M on road, not track. ) During a spirited 20-mins mountain drive, I didn't reach the limit of M2C brakes either. Again, both strong and confidence inspiring. Grip / Traction: My 1M is on PSS, my 335i got PS4S, idk what tire the M2C got. (sorry I forgot to look. ) I turn TC fully off in my 1M most of time. I did MDM in M2C most of time (I don't wanna wreck a car that doesn't belong to me) (well, I don't wanna wreck any car). In straight line, when tire is warm (lets say after 30 mins of pretty fast driving), I can still easily spin wheel in 1st and 2nd gear in 1M, sometimes even in 3rd. In M2C, at the end of my test drive on an empty straight road, I turn TC fully off to see how easy/hard to spin tires in M2C. Result is I can barely spin tires in 1st gear with some tire scream. Not possible in 2nd. With more power/torque and same tire width/size, I don't know why it's harder to spin tire. I can only think of maybe M2C tire compound is more grippy, and maybe hotter temp? In fact, I don't like to spin tires. The reason why I did that in my 1M and M2C test car is because it is my method to see how grippy or not grippy the grip/traction condition is. And that gives me an idea of how hard I can/cannot push the car. So based on my limited observation of M2C, I find 1M a lot easier to slide its tail out. Well, limited slip differential definitely play a big factor here. But in street driving, I definitely find 1M easier to slide and asks more from the driver (reflection, and ability to control a slide) (otherwise, just keep TC on, but what's the fun in that ). Non Driving comparison: Looks: Some say the exterior of 1M is a face that only the mother can love. Well, I'm that mother. I love M2C exterior as well, I think the new connected kidney grill looks best on black M2C. But overall, M2C is very handsome and aggressive, which I love. Needless to say, I love Valencia Orange, in some lighting, sunset orange really looks like VO, maybe even has stronger orange color than VO, which I love. But other times, SO is a bit too copper for my liking.... Old topic, and personal preference, no further discussion from me. Interior: I didn't take any interior pics of M2C, I just sat in and drove lol. Undeniably, M2C feels newer because the infotainment (Nav screen, full digital dashboard). My 1M didn't have nav. I also like the exposed carbon trim in M2C. I wish the dokota leather in both cars feels better. But I don't mind that much. Seats: They all hold you very well. But I feel the seats in 1M (same sport seats in any E9X, E8X 1 and 3 series) offer better side bolster support at the lower back, pelvis area, while side bolster of M2C seats (aka all F8X M3/4 seats) mainly hold one's mid back, ribs area. Therefore sometimes I felt M2C seats blocks some of my shoulder/arm movement a little bit. Looks wise M2C seats looks newer/fancier. Also, my 1M comes with manual seats, which I believe sits 10 mm lower than electric seats. (I truly don't understand why m2c doesn't come with manual adjust option is USA...) Seating position are both great, but I felt like maybe M2C is a bit higher than 1M. If I have to pick one, I prefer 1M seats which holds my side lower back area. Maybe if I own a M2C, I would get used to it. again, personal preference / different shape of body. photo credit: bmwusa.com Gauge/Dash: I have to say, although M2C LCI digital dash looks pretty good, (much better than F90 digital dash imho), I like analog needles. Maybe BMW just tried really hard to improve and impress people who keep saying BMW interior is too old. Steering wheel: I love both. It's a tie between the two. They both have similar diameter which is small, leather feels great on both wheel. They are both on the thick side, but I don't mind at all. I also like that they are both round and not flat bottom. Conclusion: It's pretty late again, maybe I forgot to write something, and I will add in later when I remember. I didn't know I had this much to say about these two cars. But if you made it to the end, thank you very much for reading. Generally speaking, both cars are brilliant baby M cars. They can both do tidy fast stuff, and both can offer a wild slidey ride. I probably mentioned some negatives in my post about either car, but at the end of the day, they are all nitpicking and both are already brilliant as it is. (Okay rant about weight is not nitpicking, if they could made lighter, I would love them even more. ) 1M is a great car, it involves you, and likes to play with you, and extremely tossable. It asks a little bit more from the driver comparing to M2C. And something that M2C doesn't have (or no current M car has) is 163 kg (360 lbs ) lighter in stock form, and a little bit smaller (actually the only M car that has smaller wheelbase than 1M is E30 M3, Z3M Z4M coupe). M2C is just also great. It feels more refined, but still totally fun and involving. In my mind, something M2C has and 1M doesn't have is a more solid front end structure, more refined interior, and more sophisticated LSD. Maybe a bit too grippy for my liking though; it has more track capability, but lost some fun at the same time. Also it can come with DCT, so more choices for more people. If one is in the market looking for a small fun rwd, I think you can't go wrong with either 1M or M2C (maybe also M2). I know, cliche. Actually, after my 335i retires, I might grab a black M2C with 6mt. (Or a M2CS) Thanks guys for reading. Information about the event. The location and environment is just great. Kudos to BMW!! Nice car selections, nice environment, and nice atmosphere. I would give the whole event a 8.5 out of 10. The score would be higher if it didn't get so crowded so quickly. Test drive is first come first serve, that's why I only managed to drive M2C and M5C. I really wanted to drive X3M because S58, also I wanted to drive B6 because I always love Alpina but didn't get a chance. Test Drive car fleet (if I remember correctly) has M2C, M4 Coupe, M4 vert, M5C, B6, 745e?(the hybrid one), 850, z4 30i, I8 coupe, and I8 roadster, and X3M X4M (maybe X5) and X7 50i. And for each model, there are a couple of cars available. B7 is shown but I don't think it's available for test drive. Attached Images Last edited by Phil-on-Cars; 09-26-2019 at 09:15 PM..
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09-25-2019, 06:21 AM	#2
ASAP Major General 10133 Rep 8,611 Posts Drives: '23 X3 M40i Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Really need to hear the driving impressions.... as far as the LCI gauges, I think it's a large step forward... the car does not need a full digital dash but electronic gauges certainly help. My main driving impression was overall extremely positive... the car has great size, great tossability and handled super well. The only negative that I could take away was that it was not as fast straight line as the M3 / M4 I had driven. They clearly differentiate the cars by the top end power.
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09-25-2019, 07:39 AM	#3
BroDoze Captain 168 Rep 807 Posts Drives: Stuff Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Pics aren’t showing... __________________ ///M
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09-25-2019, 12:14 PM	#4
pizza240 Lieutenant 793 Rep 457 Posts Drives: 2023 M3 Competition xDrive Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	I also give BMWs a 10/10 on steering wheel roundness.
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09-25-2019, 03:30 PM	#5
CosmosMpower Brigadier General 2051 Rep 3,714 Posts Drives: F87c, GT3, MK7 GTI Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	You forgot the best part the M2C has a S55, the 1M has a turd N54.
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09-25-2019, 10:18 PM	#7
chris719 Major General 7332 Rep 7,294 Posts Drives: '08 M Roadster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	Nothing wrong with N54 from a performance standpoint. It's not the most responsive engine when you compare it to S54 or S65, but it's good. The only problem with it is long term reliability.
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09-26-2019, 08:53 AM	#8
Karmic Man Lieutenant Colonel 1996 Rep 1,759 Posts Drives: M2C Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: World iTrader: (0)	I had so much issues (oil gasket leaks, excessive carbon build up, injectors failure, vanos faults, cam shafts and bearings replaced) with the N54 in the 1M that I sold it. Performance aside the S55 is heaps more responsive and reliable. There is no comparison
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09-26-2019, 03:30 PM	#11
akkando Major General 5863 Rep 6,634 Posts Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	The m2 LCI gauges are analogue, just backlit so they look digital to untrained eye.
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09-26-2019, 10:51 PM	#16
KevinM Brigadier General 2936 Rep 3,285 Posts Drives: 2002 M5;2007 M Coupe;2020 M2C Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Tucson iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 M2 Competition [10.00] 2007 E86 M coupe [8.38] 2002 E39 M5 [9.00]	Thanks for your thoughts. I had a lot of seat time in my friend's 1M and really enjoyed it. I almost bought it from him, but wanted to do a European Delivery and so ended up with a F80 ZCP, from which I transitioned to the M2C. As you did, I find many similarities between the cars. I find it quite easy to spin the M2C's tires even in MDM mode, not that I try to do this often.... I like the S55 in the M2C even more than I did in the F80, and I am not sure why this is. It just seems more responsive; it must be in my head. Just as an FYI, all M2Cs are delivered with PSS. When these wear out, I will fit PS4s. I agree with you on the M2C's electronic steering. I think it is quite good, even better than my 2016 F80. I have been driving BMWs since 1999 and still have the Z4M coupe and E39 M5, so I understand how good BMW hydraulic steering is (my favorite steering is probably my previous 2002 E39 530 MT). I'm surprised that some car pundits (C&D, etc.) continue to bang on about how horrible the M2Cs steering is. Truthfully, I"m wondering if I just don't notice or care or said pundits have an axe to grind. I drove a 718 Cayman before I ordered the M2C, and I honestly find the steering comparable. But of course, I am not a professional reviewer. Enjoy the 1M! __________________ 2020 F87 M2C Hockenheim Silver/MT 2002 E39 M5 Sterling Gray/Caramel 2007 E86 Z4M Coupe Silver Gray/Black 2021 Kia Telluride (hauler)
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09-27-2019, 06:19 AM	#18
rj45m New Member 12 Rep 14 Posts Drives: '20 M2C Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Great review! Thanks.
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09-27-2019, 08:51 AM	#21
M3GymNut Major 908 Rep 1,211 Posts Drives: 2021 M3Comp Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (0)	Great write up! Funny you mentioned the S2000 transmission. Best manuals I've driven have been from Honda and Acura without question. Like butter.
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