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      06-19-2019, 09:31 AM   #1
MartyE12345
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Savagegeese M2 Competition Review: The Throwback Machine

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I was surprised to hear him say the DCT was one of the best transmissions out there.
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      06-19-2019, 09:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyE12345 View Post
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I was surprised to hear him say the DCT was one of the best transmissions out there.
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
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      06-19-2019, 10:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
+1
Nowdays only PDK (GT2/3 version) and Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren dual clutch transmissions are better than DKG, but those (super)cars cost at least triple the M2, I don't see anything better than DKG on normal street cars.
DSG/S tronic? 7g DCT? Don't joke please
Instead the rubbery 6MT gearbox is not the best and far from the best.
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      06-19-2019, 10:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
I own a DCT, I think it is amazing too. I was just surprised to hear a reviewer say it, usually they still argue the manual is the better choice. I donít know if Iíve heard anyone praise it as much as him. I believe he said it was on supercar levels. My only complaint about the DCT is driving around town at slower speeds it isnít incredibly smooth, or doesnít know what gear it wants to be in. I would have bought a manual if I didnít own a s2000. Overall Iím very happy with the DCT.
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      06-19-2019, 12:11 PM   #5
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In the review he praised the DCT which I tend to agree with even though for me I chose the manual. He did make a disclaimer at the end to check out the Supra/Z4 before signing on the dotted line. I thought that was kinda funny since they have the ZF8 tranny which is good but not the same engagement as the DCT IMHO.
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      06-19-2019, 12:11 PM   #6
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dct calibration is different than the 2016 m2 dct i had before

is faster
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      06-19-2019, 12:13 PM   #7
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After almost 10 months and a lot of "I really wish I had bought a manual" moments that I'm not sure I'll ever get over, I'm OK with the DCT. I think it's an idiot in auto mode at times, but paddle-shifted I have zero complaints. Paddle-shifted, this thing is SO much better than my 340 was in manual mode. On power, then into the brakes headed towards a turn, its deeply clear that this transmission is better than I would be with a manual.

I will always miss the clutch, playing with neutral at various moments, non-sequential shifting, etc... Unless I can come up with a car to get, that I can afford (I'm not on the high-side of income for this board), and that's actually available, I'm just sticking with this fella and the DCT.
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      06-19-2019, 02:13 PM   #8
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Love SG, but have to point out the misinformation @6m36s into the video. I'm sure the revised suspension theorist will chime in shortly.
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      06-19-2019, 02:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyE12345 View Post
I own a DCT, I think it is amazing too. I was just surprised to hear a reviewer say it, usually they still argue the manual is the better choice. I donít know if Iíve heard anyone praise it as much as him. I believe he said it was on supercar levels. My only complaint about the DCT is driving around town at slower speeds it isnít incredibly smooth, or doesnít know what gear it wants to be in. I would have bought a manual if I didnít own a s2000. Overall Iím very happy with the DCT.
I think that might be because he isn't a regular car reviewer that works for a website with a staff. It seems EVERY reviewer from websites will spend at least some amount of time trying to convince us of their car guy credibility by talking about how the MT is what they would prefer, of course that's what they would buy, everyone else should buy it too, it's more fun, it's the correct transmission, why would you buy an auto, especially on a car like this etc, but the DCT is fine for an auto. Then they move on. They also probably throw in a pros and cons list at the end that something like Pros: car is pretty fun and smallest M car. Cons: suspension harsher than town car and doesn't seat 6 with costco cargo + dog so no practical. Such insight!
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      06-19-2019, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
In the review he praised the DCT which I tend to agree with even though for me I chose the manual. He did make a disclaimer at the end to check out the Supra/Z4 before signing on the dotted line. I thought that was kinda funny since they have the ZF8 tranny which is good but not the same engagement as the DCT IMHO.
I think he feels that those cars are a better dedicated sports car platform, and maybe in the Supra's case, cheaper to maintain. If you want the sports car feel, maybe the M2C isn't the place to look considering it sits high and has back seats and reasonable trunk.
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      06-19-2019, 02:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Love SG, but have to point out the misinformation @6m36s into the video. I'm sure the revised suspension theorist will chime in shortly.
Until someone takes apart the suspension on both cars and tests them, I'm going to go with everyone feels it's different, so it is until proven otherwise.
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      06-19-2019, 02:56 PM   #12
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this is a fun car to drive. and fun with DCT. shitting on DCT is just typical douchebaggery.. Let the haters hate
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      06-19-2019, 03:47 PM   #13
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I've always gone with a manual in the BMW cars I've had before but decided to try the DCT this time with the M2C. I should be taking delivery of my car soon and am excited to finally give it a go.
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      06-19-2019, 04:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
Totally Absolutely 100% agree with this post. I have driven manuals for 30 years including the Z4M Coupe (2006) , E46 ZHP sedan (2003) Audi A6 (1996)- with the massive traffic up and down I 35 from Dallas to Austin to San Antonio where I live- the DCT is the only way to go.
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      06-19-2019, 04:24 PM   #15
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I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.
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      06-19-2019, 04:39 PM   #16
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I have always felt that a DCT operating in automated mode at low speeds felt the way a beginner would drive a manual transmission. Awkward and jerky. Feels that way in some high RPM conditions too. Add I have driven a lot of DCTs.

In manual mode they can be outstanding. But then again, if it's a true manual transmission with a good clutch and shifter, that can be outstanding too, in a different way. I much prefer the involvement of a true manual transmission. While a DCT is superior in some ways, it just cannot live up to that same type of experience.

I think most reviewers who pan DCT are in that ballpark -- they just prefer manual transmission. A smaller subset are trying to insinuate it's not a true/proper sports car transmission, but that really doesn't fly since there are so many competent DCTs these days, including in supercars where it's the only choice.

Now if someone buys DCT because they don't know how to drive a manual transmission and DCT is the closest they can get to an automatic, then to me that is kind of lame. Buy a DCT because it's better, not because you can't drive a stick.
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      06-19-2019, 04:45 PM   #17
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Fun factor and faster are 2 completely separate things. And everyone's idea of fun is different. It all comes down to personal preference.

I've always been a manual guy, and will always be a manual guy as long as it's still an option in the cars I prefer. It's more "fun" for me. Your opinion may be different. And that's ok.
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      06-19-2019, 04:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.
I really only let the CPU shift when I am in stop and go traffic. That's less than 5% of my driving. The rest of the time, I use the paddles, and I find it to be a really good transmission.

Totally understand the commitment to the MT - I've had many more manual cars than autos in my life - but saying the DCT is garbage is not consistent with my DCT experience (OG M2 and F80 ZCP). I think it's pretty damn good, and I really enjoy the aggressiveness associated with the shifts in the highest settings. Just my $.02
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      06-19-2019, 04:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Fun factor and faster are 2 completely separate things. And everyone's idea of fun is different. It all comes down to personal preference.

I've always been a manual guy, and will always be a manual guy as long as it's still an option in the cars I prefer. It's more "fun" for me. Your opinion may be different. And that's ok.
This. I will always buy a manual. Hell, I waited until the Supra was 100 percent for sure not getting a stick before I walked into the BMW showroom to order an M2 comp.

But for the love of god, do what makes you happy. If you're going to be happier with an auto or a DCT or whatever, you should not care a lick what other people think. Don't put up with a transmission you don't want to own just because some judgmental asshole on the internet is insecure and talks down to everyone. He doesn't have your commute or your bum knee or your love of serene cruising without ever having to shift.

Sixty grand is a lot of money, it should buy you the car that makes you happiest.
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      06-19-2019, 05:03 PM   #20
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The BMW M2 C- like many other "sport" cars need two reviews -one for everyday driving and one for the track. I will never track mine and dont know the % who will. But I WILL drive it in the Texas Hill Country at an elevated speed LOL. And THATS where most of us will live with the M2C- going to work going to the store and going on the twisties. And it is the absolute perfect car for that- a bit stiff for sure on bad pavement and a bit loud (I will get mine sound deadened a bit) but it is just a magnificent machine. Maybe a Porsche if you really want a track machine? I dont want to spend the cash to track 70-100k cars.
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      06-19-2019, 05:04 PM   #21
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I wouldn't mine a DCT; as a second vehicle.. There is a certain appeal to not having to shift all the time.. No beef with anyone that selects one, for whatever reason..

But a car like the M2, I want it in a manual.. Sorry..

I will commit to an automatic transmission when It's fully autonomous and I can do stuff like this, after a night of hard drinking:



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      06-19-2019, 06:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
Hell, I waited until the Supra was 100 percent for sure not getting a stick before I walked into the BMW showroom to order an M2 comp.
Same deal for me. Supra looks excellent otherwise, and it is certainly a better $$ value than similar hardware with a BMW badge. It would have been a slam dunk for me.
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