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      11-29-2018, 09:02 AM   #1
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Alternative Energy Vehicles in China Transmit their Location to the Government

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SHANGHAI (AP) — When Shan Junhua bought his white Tesla Model X, he knew it was a fast, beautiful car. What he didn’t know is that Tesla constantly sends information about the precise location of his car to the Chinese government.

Tesla is not alone. China has called upon all electric vehicle manufacturers in China to make the same kind of reports — potentially adding to the rich kit of surveillance tools available to the Chinese government as President Xi Jinping steps up the use of technology to track Chinese citizens.

“I didn’t know this,” said Shan. “Tesla could have it, but why do they transmit it to the government? Because this is about privacy.”

More than 200 manufacturers, including Tesla, Volkswagen, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Nissan, Mitsubishi and U.S.-listed electric vehicle start-up NIO, transmit position information and dozens of other data points to government-backed monitoring centers, The Associated Press has found. Generally, it happens without car owners’ knowledge.

The automakers say they are merely complying with local laws, which apply only to alternative energy vehicles. Chinese officials say the data is used for analytics to improve public safety, facilitate industrial development and infrastructure planning, and to prevent fraud in subsidy programs.

https://apnews.com/4a749a4211904784826b45e812cff4ca
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      11-29-2018, 09:15 AM   #2
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Not surprising, as the Chinese government has been leaning on tech industries to provide this data for almost everything these days.
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      11-29-2018, 11:41 AM   #3
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I actually believe the Chinese government on this one. If they were doing it to track the cars for malevolent purposes, why would they limit it to BEVs? It sounds like the government is trying to get information on usage to plan for future auto requirements.
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      11-29-2018, 03:05 PM   #4
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Self driving cars that apparently everyone in North America wants, will do exactly the same thing.
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      12-03-2018, 11:40 AM   #5
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Self driving cars that apparently everyone in North America wants, will do exactly the same thing.
yep.
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      12-03-2018, 12:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I actually believe the Chinese government on this one. If they were doing it to track the cars for malevolent purposes, why would they limit it to BEVs? It sounds like the government is trying to get information on usage to plan for future auto requirements.
It would be one thing if China actually cared about the rights of its citizens and wasn't run by an authoritarian administration. There's other ways to gather information for auto requirement planning that don't require round the clock monitoring of your location and speed.
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      12-03-2018, 12:03 PM   #7
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This is all very interesting, but...

Pretty funny everyone's first reaction might to be completely outraged at this type of behavior when your iPhone (and Android Phone) have been doing the very same thing for quite some time...

Your Phone, your Smart Watch, your FitBit, your BMW ConnectedDrive, your EZPass, your Amazon Echo, your Shopping Habits, your Browsing Habits, your Search History, the crap YOU post on your Social Media Accounts...

Better save some outrage for all the loss of privacy YOU have been surrendering voluntarily...
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      12-03-2018, 12:23 PM   #8
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I call bs on the guy claiming he didn't know the government will know. I've gone back and forth in China in the past 20 something years, everyone knows. It's a unspoken fact. Most people don't care. It's like a social media app Chinese people use called WeChat. 95% probability that the government reads your stuff but people don't care. And if you try to publicize something like this then everyone calls you out by saying you're corrupt or have something to hide. This isn't news.

EDIT: don't quote me on the numbers I'm just pulling numbers out of my a**.

EDIT: good picture though, they really must want to hit those sales numbers in china especially after the whole D&G debacle lol.
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      12-03-2018, 12:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I actually believe the Chinese government on this one. If they were doing it to track the cars for malevolent purposes, why would they limit it to BEVs? It sounds like the government is trying to get information on usage to plan for future auto requirements.
That's more for control than anything else.
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      12-03-2018, 12:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I actually believe the Chinese government on this one. If they were doing it to track the cars for malevolent purposes, why would they limit it to BEVs? It sounds like the government is trying to get information on usage to plan for future auto requirements.
I'm sorry, where did you read it was limited to BEV's? Maybe because many newer-technology vehicles (regardless if they are BEV) can simply provide this info as they are online 24x7?

...and if you believe the data collection is for the benefit of society, Please send me an email at bridgesales@gmail.com. I'm currently having a holiday sale on a bridges!
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Last edited by evanevery; 12-03-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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      12-03-2018, 01:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
This is all very interesting, but...

Pretty funny everyone's first reaction might to be completely outraged at this type of behavior when your iPhone (and Android Phone) have been doing the very same thing for quite some time...

Your Phone, your Smart Watch, your FitBit, your BMW ConnectedDrive, your EZPass, your Amazon Echo, your Shopping Habits, your Browsing Habits, your Search History, the crap YOU post on your Social Media Accounts...

Better save some outrage for all the loss of privacy YOU have been surrendering voluntarily...
I can turn it all off.
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      12-03-2018, 01:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I can turn it all off.
Dear Mr Snowden,

Good for you! Do you? I'm willing to bet you don't...

Do you take pictures with your smart phone. Do you prevent the MetaData (time, date, GPS loc) from being stamped on each and every photo? Do you then post them to Facebook or elsewhere on the web?

Please tell me how you turn off your EZPass!

I work in the industry. Its specifically part of our job to perform forensic analysis on Phones, PC's and Cloud accounts. I never seen ANYONE who managed to turn it ALL off...
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Last edited by evanevery; 12-03-2018 at 01:14 PM.
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      12-03-2018, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I can turn it all off.
Good for you! Do you? I'm willing to bet you don't...

Do you take pictures with your smart phone. Do you prevent the MetaData (time, date, GPS loc) from being stamped on each and every photo?

Please tell me how you turn off your EZPass!

I work in the Computer Forensics industry. Its specifically part of our job to perform forensic analysis on Phones, PC's and Cloud accounts. I never seen ANYONE who managed to turn it ALL off...
YES to all aside from my EZ pass which I sporadically use. GPS is off on my 4 series as well.

I may/may not use VPN and/or TAILS and/or fully encrypted email.


Point is that I have options to choose what to show and when.
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      12-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #14
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YES to all aside from my EZ pass which I sporadically use. GPS is off on my 4 series as well.
Sure, sure, if you think so....

You drive a 2015 435i and you are located in the Southeastern US. You joined this forum on May 25 2005 so I expect this is not your first BMW. You have 7345 total posts and average 1.49 posts perday. You use an iPhone. Specifically, you use the IOS Bimmerpost app to browse the forum.

I haven't even begun to data mine your 7345 Bimmerpost postings to gather more personal info...
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      12-03-2018, 01:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
YES to all aside from my EZ pass which I sporadically use. GPS is off on my 4 series as well.
Sure, sure, if you think so....

You drive a 2015 435i and you are located in the Southeastern US. You joined this forum on May 25 2005 so I expect this is not your first BMW. You have 7345 total posts and average 1.49 posts perday. You use an iPhone. Specifically, you use the IOS Bimmerpost app to browse the forum.

I haven't even begun to data mine your 7345 Bimmerpost postings to gather more personal info...
LMFAO I love this guy. Someone get him a beer
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      12-03-2018, 01:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion View Post
LMFAO I love this guy. Someone get him a beer
Someone? I happen to know YOU have beer in your fridge and your favorite brand is...

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      12-03-2018, 01:40 PM   #17
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Blank

I don't use an iPhone. There is an option on iDrive to turn off locator btw.

As for my site data, ya, I've mentioned the lack of https. You could probably hack the site and pull an email.
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      12-03-2018, 01:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I can turn it all off.
Just turn off your phone bro, power it down. Call it a day
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      12-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I don't use an iPhone. There is an option on iDrive to turn off locator btw.

As for my site data, ya, I've mentioned the lack of https. You could probably hack the site and pull an email.
Funny, that's not what the statistics page on your Bimmerpost profile says...

Go to "View Public Profile" for your account, click on "Show all statistics", look under "General Statistics", notice you are currently browsing using "Bimmerpost Mobile", Click on "Download it Now" , and you will see it appears to be only offered for IOS/IPad. So maybe you are using an iPad?

Now, I haven't dug any deeper than that (I'm busy looking at your high school yearbook), so I can't be sure of its accuracy, but that is what it implies...

...and who cares if Bimmerpost uses/doesn't use HTTPS if all I have to do is log in and have all of your 7345 Bimmerpost postings served up on request? Its not like I have to intercept your communications (which would be a federal violation of Title 3 WireTap regulations). They have a nice shiny "search" button!
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      12-03-2018, 02:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I don't use an iPhone. There is an option on iDrive to turn off locator btw.

As for my site data, ya, I've mentioned the lack of https. You could probably hack the site and pull an email.
Funny, that's not what the statistics page on your Bimmerpost profile says...

Go to "View Public Profile" for your account, click on "Show all statistics", look under "General Statistics", notice you are currently browsing using "Bimmerpost Mobile", Click on "Download it Now" , and you will see it appears to be only offered for IOS/IPad. So maybe you are using an iPad?

Now, I haven't dug any deeper than that (I'm busy looking at your high school yearbook), so I can't be sure of its accuracy, but that is what it implies...

...and who cares if Bimmerpost uses/doesn't use HTTPS if all I have to do is log in and have all of your 7345 Bimmerpost postings served up on request? Its not like I have to intercept your communications (which would be a federal violation of Title 3 WireTap regulations). They have a nice shiny "search" button!
Touche. I'm not saying you can't find out about someone. History is always there but it's just history.
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      12-03-2018, 02:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
I don't use an iPhone. There is an option on iDrive to turn off locator btw.

As for my site data, ya, I've mentioned the lack of https. You could probably hack the site and pull an email.
Funny, that's not what the statistics page on your Bimmerpost profile says...

Go to "View Public Profile" for your account, click on "Show all statistics", look under "General Statistics", notice you are currently browsing using "Bimmerpost Mobile", Click on "Download it Now" , and you will see it appears to be only offered for IOS/IPad. So maybe you are using an iPad?

Now, I haven't dug any deeper than that (I'm busy looking at your high school yearbook), so I can't be sure of its accuracy, but that is what it implies...

...and who cares if Bimmerpost uses/doesn't use HTTPS if all I have to do is log in and have all of your 7345 Bimmerpost postings served up on request? Its not like I have to intercept your communications (which would be a federal violation of Title 3 WireTap regulations). They have a nice shiny "search" button!
Touche. I'm not saying you can't find out about someone. History is always there but it's just history.


I was a dork in HS.
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      12-03-2018, 02:30 PM   #22
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Touche. I'm not saying you can't find out about someone. History is always there but it's just history.

I was a dork in HS.
Yeah, but Its ALL history after all, isn't it? Any/All collected data is "history"...

(...and I was only kidding about your High School Yearbook)

Sleep well, my friend...
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