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      10-22-2018, 04:29 PM   #1
DieGrüneHölle
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SportAuto: Nurburgring & Hockenheim Short Laptimes (M2 Competition vs M2 and M4)

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M2C gains 9 seconds over M2 at the Nurburgring, also equals the M4 time.

M2C runs neck and neck with M2 on the tighter Hockenheim Short.

The M2 Competition and S55 advantage takes over on the power track, while on tighter/shorter track the M2 keeps up with the less weight. (note: M2C times done in 30+ degree higher track temps)

M2C - 7:52
M2 - 8:01





M2C - 1:12.2
M2 - 1:12.2



Something both sides can be happy about.
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      10-22-2018, 04:42 PM   #2
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Nice showing on the M2c

OGM2 ain’t too bad for a non-M car eh
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      10-22-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
DieGrüneHölle
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It is kinda cool how they stack up to be honest. Results give credence to both cars. Of which both are very good cars to own.
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      10-22-2018, 05:51 PM   #4
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Now imagine where a Z4M would be considering the Z4 M40i is basically as good as the OG M2.
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      10-22-2018, 05:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Now imagine where a Z4M would be considering the Z4 M40i is basically as good as the OG M2.
Z4M coupe with S58, sign me up.
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      10-22-2018, 06:50 PM   #6
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S55 needs the leg room to fly!
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      10-22-2018, 09:00 PM   #7
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Temp plays a HUGE difference in lap time.

For the Hockenheim test, asphalt temperature was recorded as 41 degree Celsius for the M2C trial and 13 degree Celsius for the M2 trial. This means the M2C has less grip to work.

Ambient temp was recorded as 28 degree Celsius for the M2C vs 9 degree Celsius for the M2. The S55 didn't get the same air density as the N55 during the trail as cooler air increases air density thus more oxygen which means more power. The S55 was at a disadvantage.

On the same day with both cars running the M2C will clock faster time for sure.
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      10-22-2018, 10:04 PM   #8
D22M2
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^ lol ...give it up man… M2c is a great(awesome, superb, fast, dope, sick, spectacular) car, but just slightly more so over the M2 - and that’s ok - trust me - all’s well in the M world

I hope I don’t find it necessary to act like some of you m2c owners when mine arrives
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      10-22-2018, 10:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D22M2 View Post
^ lol ...give it up man… M2c is a great(awesome, superb, fast, dope, sick, spectacular) car, but just slightly more so over the M2 - and that’s ok - trust me - all’s well in the M world

I hope I don’t find it necessary to act like some of you m2c owners when mine arrives
I gave a scientific analysis regarding the track time comparison.

What ‘act’ are you talking about?

Give up what? Be like you and didn’t bring anything worthwhile to the table? No thanks.
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      10-22-2018, 11:56 PM   #10
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The text with the 1:12.2 Hockenheim Short lap says this more or less:


The OG M2 had literally the best outside and tarmac temps to deal with, given the 1:12.2

M2C had to deal with very high outside and tarmac temperatures.
He is not exaggerating when he says in ideal temps/ circumstances the M2C would have gone certainly 1s faster around that track.

-------

FWIW



Cheers
Robin
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      10-22-2018, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Temp plays a HUGE difference in lap time.

For the Hockenheim test, asphalt temperature was recorded as 41 degree Celsius for the M2C trial and 13 degree Celsius for the M2 trial. This means the M2C has less grip to work.

Ambient temp was recorded as 28 degree Celsius for the M2C vs 9 degree Celsius for the M2. The S55 didn't get the same air density as the N55 during the trail as cooler air increases air density thus more oxygen which means more power. The S55 was at a disadvantage.

On the same day with both cars running the M2C will clock faster time for sure.
I hate to say it but that's what SportAuto/GC also said but in a more common way(see my post above)

I don't want to look like an M2C fanboi, but it is what it is.



Cheer
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      10-23-2018, 12:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I hate to say it but that's what SportAuto/GC also said but in a more common way(see my post above)

I don't want to look like an M2C fanboi, but it is what it is.



Cheer
Robin
It's just in my engineering & finance nature to be analytical and quoting figures.

It is what it is indeed!
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      10-23-2018, 01:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
It's just in my engineering & finance nature to be analytical and quoting figures.

It is what it is indeed!
Also the fact you live in Australia and will know exactly what bloody hot weather does to a car’s performance.
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      10-23-2018, 01:37 AM   #14
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Just an example. With my old 1M I drove faster on track (Mugello circuit) on February (14°) with PS2 at 20% than in July (28°) with brand new PSS Same car, same mods, same (bad ) driver
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      10-23-2018, 02:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
The text with the 1:12.2 Hockenheim Short lap says this more or less:


The OG M2 had literally the best outside and tarmac temps to deal with, given the 1:12.2

M2C had to deal with very high outside and tarmac temperatures.
He is not exaggerating when he says in ideal temps/ circumstances the M2C would have gone certainly 1s faster around that track.

-------

FWIW



Cheers
Robin
Exactly this and 1 second is being conservative I think.
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      10-23-2018, 03:16 PM   #16
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      10-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #17
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I feel so happy now that it has been proved that my M2C can take me faster to the office than the regular one...
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      10-23-2018, 03:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Temp plays a HUGE difference in lap time.

For the Hockenheim test, asphalt temperature was recorded as 41 degree Celsius for the M2C trial and 13 degree Celsius for the M2 trial. This means the M2C has less grip to work.

Ambient temp was recorded as 28 degree Celsius for the M2C vs 9 degree Celsius for the M2. The S55 didn't get the same air density as the N55 during the trail as cooler air increases air density thus more oxygen which means more power. The S55 was at a disadvantage.

On the same day with both cars running the M2C will clock faster time for sure.
Sport Auto likes to run those MPSS super low, like 2.2 bar warm, for a street tire that is just too low and speaking from experience, those pressure are killing those super soft MPSS sidewalls, i even spoke to a lot of "specialists" around the ring regarding tire pressure(s) on street tires, they all seem to agree with this.

They even recommended running 2.0 rear and 2.5 bar front on NOS when warm, still far too low for those tires.

I did not finish reading the article, but i'm interested to find out how much pressure they ran on both cars on NOS and Hockenheim Short.

My point is, even at higher temperatures, tire pressure can be adjusted to provide close results. The more concern is the intercooler/turbocharger getting heated up more on higher temps than probably a tad more power in lower.
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      10-23-2018, 03:43 PM   #19
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Higher temps and atmospheric pressure are critical to performance.
Set aside track temp and grip (which have a quantifiable effect). Just looking at the difference in temps and pressures, the M2 had a massive advantage in air temp and a slight advantage in atmospheric pressure.
Even with FI, on a track like the 'ring that could come down a multiple seconds.

It's a big difference.

edit: I looked at the shorter track first where M2 had advantages in both. For the 'ring, M2 was at a slight disadvantage to M2C on pressure, but I doubt it was enough to offset the temperature difference (big advantage to M2).

more edit: as I look at the data (I'm a data dork when I race), note that the OG was 6kph faster on the back straight (Hockenheim) than the M2C. Headwind possibly, but temp was very likely also a factor. S55 should be quicker there I would think (though I have no speed or RPM data for the entry on to that straight). Based on the g reading it might be a lift event which would affect the trap speed but I'm assuming it's flat.
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Last edited by Phantom_9192; 10-23-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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      10-23-2018, 04:17 PM   #20
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Yet another M2 vs M2C thread. Who says we aren't a country divided? Reminds me of the F8x vs E9x endless banter a few years ago.
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      10-23-2018, 04:20 PM   #21
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Car capability is one thing, driver capability is the biggest factor. I have seen an FRS with a great driver spank a F80 M3 with a so so driver. I regularly spank cars that have more capability than my og M2. Instead of getting wrapped up I lap times someone else can generate in your car we should be generating our own and improving them. Most M2 buyers of either generation won't use more than maybe 50 percent of the real capability it the car because they don't have the skills or opportunity (most cases both) to use more.
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      10-23-2018, 04:45 PM   #22
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Overtime the M2C will be the more sought after and valuable M2. Given the current M cars available both now and the past few years, the M2 is the small compact sports car most of us really want in an M car. The S55 engine is easily tunable if you fancy that and will attract more buyers later down the road.

10 years from now a buyer will be searching for M2C’s but will have to weed out all the cheap M2’s that keep crowding his search list.

If I had an M2 I’d trying selling it yesterday.
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