[markv123]

Hi all

Running into some trouble with my beloved car and thought I’d reach out for some advice and opinions in an effort to solve this and to help keep my sanity.

I’ve put together the following timeline as my endless forum browsing has taught me that the more detail you have to offer the bigger chance you’ll have of reaching a solution. However, I am well aware that these modern(?) European cars in general are very finicky when it comes to problem solving. So here we go;

Night of Wednesday May 24
- Driving around and all of a sudden all the traction control and ABS brake warning lights start popping on the iDrive.
- Continue to drive for 5 minutes and the Engine Fault/Malfunction with reduced power pops up on the screen as well.
- Car did not have reduced power (i.e. limp mode) so continued on for 3 minutes and pulled into servo. Sat there for 10 minutes, turned back on and all warning lights still present. Turned off for another 5 minutes, turned back on and all warning lights were there still. Figured I’ll just take it home.
- Started to drive and even before I pulled out of the servo all lights went away. I figure that the traction control and ABS warning lights went away as the full-lock turn within the servo probably “corrected” the Steering Angle Sensor. But why the Engine warning light went away I have no idea.
- Drove home and parked her up for the night.

Thursday 25th May.
- Drove car to work. Went out after work. Come home. Car ran fine all day

Friday 26th May.
- Start car to go to work and instantly see the Engine Fault/Malfunction with reduced power warning on the iDrive. Thought it may drive and correct itself after turn off and on a couple times just like the other night so I see what happens. Car is in limp mode. Drive 300 metres and figure I just take it back home. So I did just that.
- Car would start but be in limp mode.
- Friend comes over to run code check. Car did have multiple codes logged in but the new ones were;
--- “DME: Control unit, internal fault: Valvetronic output stage”; and
--- “DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor; power supply”
- Take a visit to a wrecker to buy a Valvetronic motor. After explaining to the guy what happened, he calls a mechanic to look at the screenshot of the codes and he simply says “stuffed up DME”. The guy at the front desk said it’s possible and one way to check the DME, before I buy a Valvetronic motor, is just to simply confirm if it is wet or not.
- At this stage, I’m weary of it being the DME as the DME was talking to my friend’s software and he is also adamant that the DME is communicating without error to his BMW software (unsure if INPA or ISTA) but figure what the hell, may as well check first. Checked DME, did not look wet, nor did the box or the wiring.
- Leave car on the trickle charge as it seems to be running low and call it a day.
- At this stage I have a car to use so I don’t stress about it too much

Saturday 27th May to Sunday 4th June
- A whole week goes by with no action on the car or purchase of parts. The only thing I’m doing is to google the hell out of the Codes I received and gain knowledge (opinions?) on my car trouble.

Wednesday 7th June
- Decide what the hell, and purchase a 2nd hand Valvetronic motor
- Another week will go by before I can organise time with myself and my brother to install the replacement.
- I should note that since I am not using the car I have taken it off the trickle charger

Thursday 15th June
- My brother comes around and we remove the Valvetronic motor with the replacement
- Things to note here are that we ensure it was re-installed properly, trickle charger was still off and haven’t started the car for about 2 weeks now.
- Enter key fob into ignition and press on it to hear the Valvetronic motor click away to cycle it. Repeat maybe 3 -4 times
- Try to start.
--- First start it’s about to fire. No Start
--- Second attempt. Just cranking.
--- Should note. Did not attempt any long cranks due to fear of shortening something else. Ugh
- Hook up multi-meter to Valvetronic. Definitely getting power
--- Does this mean I can rule out the “DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor; power supply” code ???
- Hook up multi-meter while initiating a start on just cranking. Voltage dropped to 10 plus volts.
--- At this point figure that the battery is low due to car sitting idle and the battery charger not being connected.
- Call it a night and leave charger on car

Friday 16th June
- Did not touch car. Left the battery charger on

Saturday 17th June
- Attempt to start the car since battery is charged
--- Just cranking. No fire.
--- Tried it twice. Same result


Sunday 18th June
- At this point I’m thinking that the Eccentric Shaft Sensor OR Cam Sensor OR Crank Sensor may be out preventing it to start
- To make sure that it’s not the battery I call NRMA roadside assist who test the battery.
--- I explain the above situation
--- NRMA service man checks the battery and attempts a start with a jumper pack attached. Still no start
--- He rules out the battery and also suspects that it could be one of my sensors acting up

Monday 19th June
- I’m now at a point where I will purchase the sensors mentioned, (and definitely want to replace all sensors that I can in the future), to see if it will fire;
- Will try and get my friend over with the software to read it again;
- Also try to change as many gaskets/seals that I can since there will be a removal of parts/rocker cover (i.e. Vanos Seals, Valvetronic Gasket, Eccentric Shaft Sensor, etc, etc


I’ll update this as it comes along.

Appreciate if you’ve even read this far and would be very thankful for any thoughts that may help solve it.

Cheers
Mark

P.S NRMA is a road side assistance company here in Australia

[nsjames]

How did the service guy test the battery?

because all of the things you described sound like a charging system issue.
low voltage will freak these cars right out.

[eurojulien]

tl/dr.. what kind of bmw is it?

[markv123]

Originally Posted by nsjames

How did the service guy test the battery?

because all of the things you described sound like a charging system issue.
low voltage will freak these cars right out.

With a voltage meter.
And that when hooked up to the jumper pack it was definitely giving out the correct amount of Volts.

Originally Posted by eurojulien

tl/dr.. what kind of bmw is it?

SorryNotSorry I guess. If I went the brief post route I may have left something that may have need be known.

Car is 2007 BMW 325i N52 motor

[5tony]

Most valvetronic motor codes on the N52 engine are caused by a failing eccentric shaft sensor which is what controls the valvetronic motor.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by markv123

With a voltage meter.
And that when hooked up to the jumper pack it was definitely giving out the correct amount of Volts.





SorryNotSorry I guess. If I went the brief post route I may have left something that may have need be known.

Car is 2007 BMW 325i N52 motor

so no load test?

that battery hasn't been tested then.

[markv123]

Originally Posted by 5tony

Most valvetronic motor codes on the N52 engine are caused by a failing eccentric shaft sensor which is what controls the valvetronic motor.

Excellent.
As the next cab off the rank for me is to replace that. I hope it works.
Can a bad ESS cause an engine not to start?

Originally Posted by nsjames

so no load test?

that battery hasn't been tested then.

Shucks. I had a feeling.
Edit: Although he may have done a load test with it right?
I may opt to replace it after the purchase of the sensor(s) as I believe it may still well be the original battery in there

Side questions:
- when replacing the Eccentric Shaft Sensor, should there be anything else I should look to replace while I have the rocker cover off?
- What other sensors do people tend to replace for preventive measures?

[5tony]

Originally Posted by markv123

Excellent.
As the next cab off the rank for me is to replace that. I hope it works.
Can a bad ESS cause an engine not to start?



Shucks. I had a feeling.
Edit: Although he may have done a load test with it right?
I may opt to replace it after the purchase of the sensor(s) as I believe it may still well be the original battery in there

Side questions:
- when replacing the Eccentric Shaft Sensor, should there be anything else I should look to replace while I have the rocker cover off?
- What other sensors do people tend to replace for preventive measures?

Usually the car will start but will go into limp mode soon after.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by markv123

Excellent.
As the next cab off the rank for me is to replace that. I hope it works.
Can a bad ESS cause an engine not to start?



Shucks. I had a feeling.
Edit: Although he may have done a load test with it right?
I may opt to replace it after the purchase of the sensor(s) as I believe it may still well be the original battery in there

Side questions:
- when replacing the Eccentric Shaft Sensor, should there be anything else I should look to replace while I have the rocker cover off?
- What other sensors do people tend to replace for preventive measures?

load tester looks like a big box with a bunch of toaster elements in it.
You clamp it on, it pulls 100 amps, you read voltage while it's under load.
You already stated that battery voltage dropped to 10 volts while cranking, that's getting into weak/bad battery territory.

If you suspect it's the original battery it needs replaced anyhow, I'd put a $100 battery in it before I took apart the valvetronic and ordered a bunch of sensors to replace things that may or may not be bad.

but I don't like shotgunning parts at shit.
Do you have a kcan cable and ista? Cause if you don't, you should probably get them before you continue tossing sensors at the car.

[geroland]

Have you ever replaced the RDC? i had some similar symptoms and everything was fine after RDC was replaced. 2011 328i

[markv123]

Originally Posted by 5tony

Usually the car will start but will go into limp mode soon after.

I see. Never had a one foul up on me before so wasn't sure what the consequence would be. And originally that's what happenned. Am looking at ordering one.
Is the ESS a serviceable item?

Originally Posted by nsjames

load tester looks like a big box with a bunch of toaster elements in it.
You clamp it on, it pulls 100 amps, you read voltage while it's under load.
You already stated that battery voltage dropped to 10 volts while cranking, that's getting into weak/bad battery territory.

If you suspect it's the original battery it needs replaced anyhow, I'd put a $100 battery in it before I took apart the valvetronic and ordered a bunch of sensors to replace things that may or may not be bad.

but I don't like shotgunning parts at shit.
Do you have a kcan cable and ista? Cause if you don't, you should probably get them before you continue tossing sensors at the car.

I suspect you may be right too. A new battery seems to be on the cards for me too so if anything i should just replace it too. I just don't know where i could find one for $100 round here to try out lol I might try and reach out to some members in my vicinity to see if they would be able to let me try theirs in the interim.

I'm trying to justify replacing all these sensors in thinking it's preventable maintenance and that it'll give me the chance to change gaskets and seals at the same time. Key word being trying lol So I'll throw the same reason onto the battery, although it seems it's well due anyway.

I don't but my friend does which is why it led me down the valvetronic part/path in the first place. Will definitely plug in again and again at each attempt to resolve this. I'm looking at purchasing that Schwaben hand tool but have yet to find anyone in Australia with one to see what it's like.

Originally Posted by geroland

Have you ever replaced the RDC? i had some similar symptoms and everything was fine after RDC was replaced. 2011 328i

Quick Google tells me it's the tire pressure monitor? Can this prevent a car starting and limp mode? Or are you referring to the other codes i got. If so, I'll be keeping it in mind if it comes up again. Appreciate the feedback for me to keep in mind.

[nsjames]

you can use ista to command things to happen for diagnostics purposes.
That's what you need to be doing, not simply replacing parts because it tossed a code related to that part, especially knowing that your battery may suck.

honestly there's no reason to replace sensors as preventive maintenance. most stuff will last the life of the car, and aftermarket/third party engine management stuff can be dodgy. genuine sensors or at least OE level stuff will cost you a fortune, and offer no particular value, they're all subject to failure at any given moment, just the nature of electronics.

[markv123]

Originally Posted by nsjames

you can use ista to command things to happen for diagnostics purposes.
That's what you need to be doing, not simply replacing parts because it tossed a code related to that part, especially knowing that your battery may suck.

honestly there's no reason to replace sensors as preventive maintenance. most stuff will last the life of the car, and aftermarket/third party engine management stuff can be dodgy. genuine sensors or at least OE level stuff will cost you a fortune, and offer no particular value, they're all subject to failure at any given moment, just the nature of electronics.

Thanks for that info James
Really appreciate your replies.
I'll ask my friend in regards to the ISTA & commanding today and see if he hadn't already tried it with me.
Definitely trying to get onto someone with a battery to trial too.

Yeah. Those are also my thoughts regarding electronics in general too. However, having only previously tinkered with Japanese cars my whole car life my experience with them is that a sensor fail doesn't bring on a catastrophic (maybe too dramatic of a word to use lol) event such as the car not willing to start at all whereas an older European car just doesn't seem to function at all should a sensor be faulty or old. Hence the reasoning with myself to justify the costs lol Appreciate the reality check on it though. hehe

[Silver330xi]

I too am having similar problems, ill follow this thread.

[markv123]

Originally Posted by Silver330xi

I too am having similar problems, ill follow this thread.

Sorry to hear.
What problems are you having and what have you tried so far?

[markv123]

Another detailed post warning for those that don’t like reading.

7th July 2017 Update.

- Just for more info, my brother isn't a mechanic by trade but is very good with cars. We’ve tinkered with cars for a very long time. New and old. We've fixed all sorts of cars before, completed engine swaps, bodywork, etc Just thought I'd say that in case you were wondering who's been touching the car so far.


So, I ended up buying the lot. Eccentric shaft sensor and seal. 2 cam sensors. Crank Sensor. 2 vanos solenoids and seals. Oil cap (for new seal). Valvetronic seal (but need to get the correct one as I got the wrong one). Rocker Cover Gaskets. Oil filter housing and oil cooler gaskets. And a crank sensor. All of this arrived on Monday 3rd July 2017.

This is what followed:

To prepare for work on the car and to (hopefully) avoid any battery issues I put the battery charger on the car on Wednesday night so that my brother and I could work on the car come Thursday night.

Thursday night rolls around. Battery charger showed the battery being fully charged.

My brother and I get to work on the car. Midwinter here in Australia right now but thankfully had the car port to keep the single digit temperatures at bay. Note to self: Must buy an outdoor heater for these expeditions lol

To put some sort of method into this madness we decided to put some sort of order on the parts to install and then hopefully eliminate any problems along the way.

First cab off the rank was definitely the easiest of the night. 2 Vanos solenoids with their seals and the 2 cam sensors. One for Intake and the other for Exhaust. Since they are at the front of the engine took all of 10 minutes. Probably not even that. Old ones removed seemed to “look fine”. Although when taking off the Vanos Solenoids both the seals stayed on the block. Not sure if they are meant to be like that but we sort of assumed that it would just come out with the Solenoids. No biggie or anything just thought I’d note it. Connectors looked all good as well. Started up. Still the same. Cranking but it seems it is just one step away from actually firing. Big yellow Engine Fault error on the iDrive remained.

Decide to pour a couple of glasses of Canadian Club and get stuck into the rocker cover removal to get to the Eccentric Shaft Sensor. This was surprisingly not “too hard”. Just very tedious. All forum posts and videos state a timeline of 3 to 4 hours (sometimes more), to remove rocker cover, replace eccentric shaft sensor & seal and install rocker cover again. I do think that with 1 person I can see it taking that long. Fortunately with me there to give my brother a hand it took us about an hour or so. Add some more time for drinks and smokos.
On the job itself: After undoing all the bolts, taking out the coils and removing the Valvetronic motor comes the tedious part. You need to remove the strut brace, hold the overflow bottle out of the way, keep the wiring loom on top hovering to give you room to lift the rocker cover and when you eventually do get there you need to lift it in all sorts of weird angles to get the clearance to get it out of there that you need. Was able to replace the Eccentric Shaft Sensor & seal, the Rocker Cover Gaskets and oil cap. Put the rocker cover back on to try again.

Unfortunately, hit the same result. Car is cranking but not starting/firing.
Crank seemed “slightly weaker” this time round so we decided to connect the jumper leads from the 4WD to the car. Tried it once. Same result. Left the 4WD running to hopefully provide extra charge, still the same.

It really seems like it is almost/”one step”/very close to firing up but just isn’t getting there.
During this process the Engine Fault Warning is still there.

My brother decides to take a look at the DME box. Fuses look ok. Connectors look ok. DME doesn’t look corroded.

I pull out the laptop that my friend generously lent me with his ISTA program. Run the fault checks and still come up with the same errors as mentioned in my original post. Try to clear, but they still remain. I have taken a photo of this and will upload if needed. Codes I’m referring to are:

--- “DME: Control unit, internal fault: Valvetronic output stage”; and
--- “DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor; power supply”.

My brother and I didn’t change the crank sensor as it doesn't "seem" like it could be it. It’s definitely cranking just not starting. But who knows...In addition, we didn’t actually know where it was until we looked it up and found out that it’s underneath starter motor. W.T.F lol Why place it there?
Anyway, since it was 1am and I had the prospect of another day on the train at 5:30am thanks to this issue we didn't even want to figure out how to get to it :-(

Remaining thoughts are now:

I suppose again that the battery could be questionable. But it has been charged fully over and over again. It is cranking. And have also tried jumper leads and a jumper pack. Again, just not sure.

On the DME. It seems to me that it is “talking” to the ISTA. In my experience this means it is still working. Although, are there cases where it is just one part that is stuffed up on mine which is making this the culprit?

Ruling out some more basics:
Spark. Ruling out the plugs since they are quite new, will be looking to see how the coil packs are.
Fuel. Making sure there is fuel in the first place (lol). And then making sure it’s purging.
Air/Flow Meter. Will run my brothers E90 Air/Flow meter on my car to see how it reacts.

If all that fails then will have to go to an Indy shop.

Again, appreciate if you’ve read this far.

Any thoughts from here would be greatly appreciated as I’m really stuck on where to go from here
=(

[PhaseP]

2007 at least in US if memory is serving me right had positive battery connection problem at the connection box under glove box, or something like that. There was a recall or TSB on it.
I kind of remember others posting here same codes (power supply to valvetronic etc) that was related to that, or the battery not being good.

[markv123]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

2007 at least in US if memory is serving me right had positive battery connection problem at the connection box under glove box, or something like that. There was a recall or TSB on it.
I kind of remember others posting here same codes (power supply to valvetronic etc) that was related to that, or the battery not being good.

I see. Thank you for that. i suppose I can test mine somehow. Wouldn't hurt.

[PhaseP]

Check this video:

You wrote you had ABS and other errors first. Those all together could mean intermittent power supply issue.

[Ken Oath]

Originally Posted by markv123

Any thoughts from here would be greatly appreciated as I’m really stuck on where to go from here
=(

Whilst you are checking all the wiring from the IBS forward, the N52 has a VVT relay (K6319) which could be open.

Check ISTA+ WDS to confirm if this vehicle has a relay.

[markv123]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Check this video:

You wrote you had ABS and other errors first. Those all together could mean intermittent power supply issue.

This seems like a good place to start outside of the engine bay

Thank you for the suggestion and hunting down this video. Will try this tomorrow (Sunday 9th July)

Originally Posted by Ken Oath

Whilst you are checking all the wiring from the IBS forward, the N52 has a VVT relay (K6319) which could be open.

Check ISTA+ WDS to confirm if this vehicle has a relay.

Perfect. Will add this on my list to check Ken.
Thank you.

[markv123]

09/07/2017 update

Have been able to run a few more checks on the car with my brother:

First we checked if there is spark. On cranking attempt it seems there is.

Next we mulled over whether or not I had fuel in the tank. It's been so long that I can't remember anymore but it's very rare that I have next to no fuel...

Checked fuel pressure by undoing the nipple and sure enough fuel spurts out confirming there is pressure.

Injectors may possibly not be firing. Is there a way to confirm this?

Or maybe my fuel pump is no longer working. Is there a way to confirm this too?

Armed with a multimeter we checked the terminals for current. It is AOK.

Then went back to the valvetronic.... it's not getting power. As per the code that's being read out.

So am now back to working out how to check for power to the valvetronic motor.

Have now removed the battery in order to check out the connectors as per the youtube video posted above. Will do so later tonight. Note: It is a little wet in there but nothing seems out of the ordinary in there either.

Ken, that relay you are referring to. Where do I find it and how do I check it please?

Thanks again guys.

Edit: Just watched the video again. It is referring to the relay (I think). Will look for corrosion tonight and try to get around to hunting the 40A fuse and relay in the junction box too.