[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by jimmy9980

So if the tech is saying the m40i is a closed deck wouldn't that also mean the B58 new engine would be closed deck too? According to this BMW tech?

The B58 is already known for sure to be closed deck design. No need to ask anyone about it!

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

I don't know why there was such a controversy about the M2 engine being an open deck VS the M4 engine being a close deck as BMW's own technical documents show their different engine block designs (hence the engine denominations S versus N).

Ok I understand that the Press Releases were misleading saying that the M2 engine is of "close deck design". But that was easily debunked. Maybe M2 owners can use the below information to financially settle with BMW if they feel cheated. I believe if the "close deck" information is still officially available from BMW or was available for a long time, there is grounds to be upset because close deck and open deck designs are very different!

Let's have a closer view with pics and diagrams taken from the engine informations provided by BMW...

M2 N55 engine information here (click on the photo of the engine to download PDF file): http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=854477

M3-M4 S55 engine information here (click on the pdf file with the name "S55 Engine Technical Docs": http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1015603


So let's go a little bit more into details.


The N55 engine family:
The M2 engine is part of the N55 inline-6 engine family, which is an evolution of the N54 engine family. Both N55 and N54 have very similar engine block designs and share the same bore and stroke: 84 mm (3.3 in) bore, 89.6 mm (3.5 in) stroke and 2,979 cc (181.8 cu in) capacity. Both engines are of OPEN DECK design, meaning that there is a space between the engine block and cylinders sleeves to cool the engine. This engine design is the cheapest to manufacture and provides the best cooling efficiency. The difference between the N55 and N54 lies primarily in the fact that the N54 has twin turbochargers whereas the N55 has only one twin scroll turbocharger. Another difference is that the N54 engine did not have the variable valve lift (Valvetronic) whereas the N55 does. Also the N54 had piezo injectors and the N55 has solenoid injectors...


Below are pics of both engines and you can see that they are of very similar design.

Pic of N54 engine block



Pic of N55 engine block


Now, let's go back to the M2 engine. Its official denomination is N55B30T0 (272 kW). That means it uses the N55 open deck engine block. The difference between this N55B30T0 to the "regular" N55 engine (or N55B30O0 in its latest and most powerful version (240 kW)) are, according to BMW, "the M2 gets the pistons and crankshaft bearings from the BMW M3/M4 and also their valvetronic variable valve timing system. The BMW M2 also receives an upgraded cooling and oil sump system."

The M3/M4 engine is a different beast altogether and has a different denomination (S55B30T0 (317 kW)). This engine block is of CLOSE DECK design which means that there is no space between the engine block and cylinder sleeves, which makes for a much stronger engine, but harder to cool. A close deck design engine is a design made for high performance engines and engines used in competition. since there is no coolant space between the engine block and cylinder sleeves, the engine is much stronger and can endure higher loads for a longer time. The drawback is that this kind of engine needs a much beefier cooling system.

Pic of S55 engine block showing close deck design, see how much thicker and sturdier the engine block is...



Now let's have a visual comparison of these engines with images taken from BMW's own technical information:

Visual of N55 engine block showing the open deck design:



Visual of S55 engine block showing the close deck design (and text from BMW confirming it)



S55 engine external view



N55 engine external view

[yousefnjr]

Realoem FWIW: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4446

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Ah, so he wasn't just some marketing spokesman.

Well, then, it is difficult to conclude definitively anything about the design of the block from these latest data, IMO. The omission of the closed-deck language in more recent materials could mean everything, or nothing...

While he is a spokeperson he has an engineering background. He should easily have the technical ability as well as resources for an authoritative answer. In the process of finding the right contact, I even got this initial reply from the Product & Telchnology dept: "I’d like to connect you with Hector who’s our engine expert"...

From BMW Group press release:

Hector Arellano-Belloc brings more than 20 years of auto industry experience including a product and technology background in Sales and Aftersales. He was most recently at BMW Group University at the Woodcliff Lake, NJ headquarters of BMW of North America. Born in Mexico City, Mexico, Hector studied International Relations and holds a degree in Industrial Engineering from the Universidad Iberoamericana in Santa Fe, Mexico. He joined BMW Group Mexico in 2006 as Senior Technical Instructor providing technical training in Spanish and English. During this time he also served as Editor-at-Large for CAR Magazine Mexico, writing monthly technical and vehicle evaluation articles. Hector joined BMW of North America in 2010 as Senior Technical Course Developer at BMW Group University where he led the redevelopment of the company’s technical training core curriculum. He is a certified specialist in BMW ActiveHybrid and BMW i technology. His native languages are Spanish and English.

[zenmaster]

Sounds like jumping the gun.

I also spoke with BMW Genius who, citing from an internal Engineering Technical Training manual, told me that the engine was a closed deck.

- No one from BMW corporate has yet denied that it is closed deck.
- No actual photographs have been shown of N55B30T0 engine with head removed

[BMWZ4]

You sure that last pic is an N55? Mine doesn't look anything like that configuration. Maybe a B58?

[tc328]

WTF is this?

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

You sure that last pic is an N55? Mine doesn't look anything like that configuration. Maybe a B58?

If you are referring to my pics. Yes it is: taken from the BMW own technical information PDF...

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Sounds like jumping the gun.

I also spoke with BMW Genius who, citing from an internal Engineering Technical Training manual, told me that the engine was a closed deck.

- No one from BMW corporate has yet denied that it is closed deck.
- No actual photographs have been shown of N55B30T0 engine with head removed

See my post: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=46

All the evidence is there from BMW'S own technical documents...

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

See my post: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=46

All the evidence is there from BMW'S own technical documents...

Sorry to say this, but what you posted proves nothing.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

BMW Group email response excerpt from 10/11/16:

Blatant lies.... see my post for evidence... http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=46

[BMWZ4]

Bizarre. Doesn't look remotely like my 2016 N55 engine, specifically the pipe to the left and the rectangular box on the right side of the block. Sure looks like the B58 but what do I know.

[BMWZ4]

This isn't my car, but this pic is exactly my config. Doesn't quite look the same. Wonder why.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Bizarre. Doesn't look remotely like my 2016 N55 engine, specifically the pipe to the left and the rectangular box on the right side of the block. Sure looks like the B58 but what do I know.

Here's a picture of the B58 engine and crankcase from BMW's own technical information (http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1171642). You can see the closed deck design and also because of that the block is much beefier than the N55.

This hints that this engine block will probably be the base of the next generation M3-M4 engines as it is over-engineered from the start. I suspect that the M240i will have the potential of much higher hp via tuning than the current M2 just because of the inherent sturdiness of the B58 engine...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Law

More marketing trickery by BMW.
I'm quite saddened that BMW has come to resort to these tactics as of late.
Let's exaggerate the facts while the hype is strong and then, by the time buyers figure it out, the hype train would've already taken off.

Remember when all the initial data at the time of the F8X announcement claimed that the S55 was an "over-square" design with a different displacement than the N55? "Oh yes the S55 must be bespoke!"
Well it was proven to be false down the line. In fact not only was the displacement (bore x stroke) and compression ratio identical to the N55, "75% of the engine components were adopted from the N55 production engine."


I gotta say, I was involved with much debate with some members on the M2 discussion boards who swore on their soul that the N55B30T0 (in the F87) had the same block as the S55 because the phrase "closed-deck" in all the BMW propaganda.
It should come as no surprise that N55B30T0 is not a closed-deck.
The name of the engine itself implies that it is a variant (i.e., Technical Update) of the N55B30O0, not a "detuned S55" as many initially alleged it to be.
I tried to dispel the conspiracy theory to no avail that was widespread at the time, the belief that the F87's N55B30T0 was actually a [detuned] variant of the S55 but was not given the "S" code because it would cannibalize sales from the F8x.
One year later, nothing from BMW's technical drawings/literature or any aftermarket shops/tuners were able to supply evidence of a closed-deck in the M2.
And then the phrase slowly gets washed away in marketing literature as well.

Shameful a tactic as it is, BMW marketing was successful. Most people believed it initially and for those who bought the cars already, the newfound truth is unlikely to make them ditch their cars.

" Marketing trickery " sure is a strong statement. Potentially libel.

Personally I would say your stance regarding this is much too strong without clear evidence.

It's much more likely that the error was an oversight. So many people in these threads barely know the difference between open and closed deck and it wouldn't be surprising at all to me to find that the person that wrote the material was in error or reversed the wording.


I would think that's a lot more likely than a deliberate plot to fool the customer.

Anyone of course that feels that they got ripped off after relying on minor details in a press release ( like what type of tires will come on the vehicle ) will likely have a difficult time proving their case ...

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

While he is a spokeperson he has an engineering background. He should easily have the technical ability as well as resources for an authoritative answer. In the process of finding the right contact, I even got this initial reply from the Product & Telchnology dept: "I’d like to connect you with Hector who’s our engine expert"...

From BMW Group press release:

See my post. All the evidence was there from the beginning. The N55 engine of the M2 is NOT a close deck design. http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=46

On the other hand, the new B58 engine is!

[BMWZ4]

oh crap.... just realized that image for the n55 was an M2 engine not a 235 n55. Dang. Sorry!

[Tag]

@1m21s, what's that look like?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

BMW Group email response excerpt from 10/11/16:
"Happy to help and have your business.
The starting point for the engine design was the N55. However, the engine has been heavily modified and carries a different suffix designation to the N55 in the M235i. The heavy modification include changes to the engine block, rotating assembly, and forced induction system.
The N55 in the BMW M2 and BMW X4 M40i xDrive are indeed closed deck. The head gasket is the same as it didn’t require any adaptations even if it is now a closed deck design.
Should you have any other question I am sure our team at Customer Relations will be happy to assist.
Best regards,"
[...]

zenmaster, point taken, but that was then.

Given the obvious change in the "Powerful Engines" M2 section of the official BMWNA website in the meantime, would be interesting to know what is exactly stated in the internal M2 Technical Training (US) nowadays re the M2 engine deck design.

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by Corinne

Ah ! Thanks Artemis... now it's clear. The closed deck has that extra thingy on the left !

:

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

To complete my case, here's the excerpt from the technical training material of the M2. The attached is the section on the engine.

First here are the regular N55 engine (code: N55B30O0) and the M2's N55 engines side by side (code: N55B30T0). You can see that they share the SAME engine block. Therefore there is NO WAY possible that this engine block could be of closed deck design. It would need to be much sturdier in design .

The difference between the 2 engines are:

1. Intake manifold
2. Crankshaft bearing shells (from S55 engine)
3. Pistons (from S55 engine)
4. Oil supply and oil sump (from S55 engine)

N55B30O0 and N55B30T0 side by side, note the same crankcase



Except from the M2 Technical training showing the difference between the N55B30O0 and N55B30T0:












S55 engine for comparison. Note that the crankcase is much sturdier. and of different design...





I guess this says it all!

[zenmaster]

That document is unofficial. Could be an early draft for all we know.