[photorph]

Hey guys, I just spoke to Mike @ x-ph. Firstly let me say Mike and Cynthia at X-ph are fantastic to work with and I'll definitely be buying more stuff from them.

Mike did offer to swap out my EL for a single midpipe since mine was unused/uninstalled. He left it up to me but also made a few important points and I ended up keeping the EL. It's being installed next week Tuesday.

Here's what he told me:

-First thing is, do you want the EL sound or not? I could swap for the single which will make it an improvement over stock...but I'll be missing the EL sound, which makes it sound like a non turbo engine. If you really want that deep non turbo sound at higher rpm, AA EL is the only way to go for now.

-Yes cold start and 2kish rpm will haves rasp/drone. So the cold start is a temporary thing, and you can also code it out if you have the older M2C. I can't since mine was recently delivered and has not been cracked. But getting past the cold start is just a matter of waiting a few mins. Next if you drive in efficient mode, none of this is an issue. I do drive in efficient mode since it's a daily driver. I put it sport/sport+ if I want to go fast, in which case I'll be at higher rpm anyway. While this is not ideal, at least there are ways to get around it.

So is this a faulty product? AA doesn't consider this a faulty product. It's not perfect, but it's really the only option we have at this point if we want that deep non turbo that doesn't like a weed trimmer.

Lastly I'm tired of waiting, if I was to swap for the single I'd have to send mine back and cover shipping charges (which is fair), wait for them to get it on the west coast. They would then have active ship me the single and I'd end up waiting another 3 weeks. Summer is short where I am. So given all this I kept the resonated EL along with my Remus race back box. I'll post how they sound next week.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by photorph

Hey guys, I just spoke to Mike @ x-ph. Firstly let me say Mike and Cynthia at X-ph are fantastic to work with and I'll definitely be buying more stuff from them.

Mike did offer to swap out my EL for a single midpipe since mine was unused/uninstalled. He left it up to me but also made a few important points and I ended up keeping the EL. It's being installed next week Tuesday.

Here's what he told me:

-First thing is, do you want the EL sound or not? I could swap for the single which will make it an improvement over stock...but I'll be missing the EL sound, which makes it sound like a non turbo engine. If you really want that deep non turbo sound at higher rpm, EL is the way to go.

-Yes cold start and 2kish rpm will haves rasp/drone. So the cold start is a temporary thing, and you can also code it out if you have the older M2C. I can't since mine was recently delivered and has not been cracked. But getting past the cold start is just a matter of waiting a few mins. Next if you drive in efficient mode, none of this is an issue. I do drive in efficient mode since it's a daily driver. I put it sport/sport+ if I want to go fast, in which case I'll be at higher rpm anyway.

So is this a faulty product? AA doesn't consider this a faulty product. It's not perfect, but it's really the only option we have at this point if we want that deep non turbo that doesn't like a weed trimmer.

Lastly I'm tired of waiting, if I was to swap for the single I'd have to send mine back and cover shipping charges (which is fair), wait for them to get it on the west coast. They would then have active ship me the single and I'd end up waiting another 3 weeks. Summer is short where I am. So given all this I kept the resonated EL along with my Remus race back box. I'll post how they sound next week.

Customer Support by Mike@x-ph was always superb!!! Of course, really great to see @ONLYACTIVE stepping in and engaging their customers, so that is a testament of how great they are. Glad that they are working with those who still have options to return or swap.

You may be lucky: you have resonated EL and a different back muffler. This setup doesn't seem to be plagued by the 2k rpm raspiness as non rez EL and stock setup.

I could be wrong, but with a clear sounding EL, you may not want to drive it in efficient mode, and open 'er up all the way: "beast mode, or bust"!!!!!

[ESB]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Absolutely- this was the money vid that instantly made me order the AA EL non-rez.

I could be mistaken, but the OP (@ESB) was one of the earlier EL adopters (late Winter/early Spring), and he hasn't complained about the bad start up nor ~ 2K raspiness.

Edit: the 4sec mark in @ESB's video ISN'T the raspiness most of us are referring to. See my vid below at 5 sec mark (premise: lunch time start up, car sat for 3-4 hrs).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12-a...w?usp=drivesdk

I got mine in around March. Funny being considered an early adopter haha. But yeah I think right after I ordered is when AA started having delays so I got lucky in that sense.

I actually do (or did?) usually get crappy cold starts. In my thread I think I doubted someone's cold start video because it didn't sound bad. But then when I went to record mine …. It also sounded non-offensive. And I haven't been able to repro a shitty sounding cold start in the last week. I don't know if maybe it got better over time based either on mileage/use or if it's related to me having warmer weather in Seattle now. But it was consistently so bad at first that I got conditioned to expecting it to be bad.

However - I have never experienced consistent rasps at ~2k once warm. Or at least I have noticed unpleasant sounds once warm (maybe VERY occasionally but not remotely near to consistent).

I'm non-res so the resonator design change that happened this spring is unrelated.

[ESB]

Okay I made 2 videos. One showing cold start. Got "lucky" and finally got one where it shows the issue. Not as bad as I'm used to. Note that for the past week+ it hasn't been happening.

Pretty clear when it happens.

Next video is once everything is warmed up and I'm trying to keep revs low while in Sport mode. This one is longer and boring but No_curebimmer I'd love if you could spot whether this sounds like yours or not?

I think I hear some tinny noise at 1:12 and 3:20?

Overall I'm not bothered by the sound in the second video. And the short pull at the end brings a smile to my face.

I guess while making it I was constantly thinking how it didn't feel that natural. I'm not usually hanging out in sub-2k rpm to then be able to pass over to 2-2.3k. Car tends to cruise more towards 2.3k and up and so my daily driving is usually spent at ~2.3-3.5k. Main exception is of course rolling from a standstill (red light etc). But that's how second video starts and it sounded fine to my ears. Did it to yours?

[Nicname]

Originally Posted by ESB

Okay I made 2 videos. One showing cold start. Got "lucky" and finally got one where it shows the issue. Not as bad as I'm used to. Note that for the past week+ it hasn't been happening.

Pretty clear when it happens.

Next video is once everything is warmed up and I'm trying to keep revs low while in Sport mode. This one is longer and boring but No_curebimmer I'd love if you could spot whether this sounds like yours or not?

I think I hear some tinny noise at 1:12 and 3:20?

Overall I'm not bothered by the sound in the second video. And the short pull at the end brings a smile to my face.

I guess while making it I was constantly thinking how it didn't feel that natural. I'm not usually hanging out in sub-2k rpm to then be able to pass over to 2-2.3k. Car tends to cruise more towards 2.3k and up and so my daily driving is usually spent at ~2.3-3.5k. Main exception is of course rolling from a standstill (red light etc). But that's how second video starts and it sounded fine to my ears. Did it to yours?

That sound at 1:12 is what people are hearing? That's the only sound that really stood out to me. Was it the recording or the exhaust producing that kind of screech?

[ESB]

Originally Posted by Nicname

That sound at 1:12 is what people are hearing? That's the only sound that really stood out to me. Was it the recording or the exhaust producing that kind of screech?

The screech was construction on the left haha. But if you listen carefully to that segment I guess the exhaust does sound different than normal?

But I can't tell if that's the sound people are talking about at 2k when warm….

[scarygary]

Originally Posted by MaximilianB

scarygary Can you also post a sound clip of the Resonated EL + AA Back Box? I am currently on the fence as to whether I want to pull the trigger on this exact setup but I have yet to find any videos of the resonated EL midpipe paired with AA's backbox.

All this talk about the annoying tinny/raspy noise at startup and around 2k rpm is making me question if maybe I should pair the AA backbox with the single midpipe? Or even just the OEM midpipe? Or a different setup entirely? Personally I don't hate the sound of the OEM setup but the EL sounds great from what I've seen online, so that's what I've been leaning towards until seeing all of the issues in this thread.

I've been holding off on changing the exhaust since I picked up my 21 M2 Comp in December and now I'm not sure which direction I want to go. Any input/advice would be much appreciated!

It’s gonna be a little longer to get it put on now. I guess the guy I bought the midpipe from here on the forum, either knowingly or unknowingly, sold me a M3/M4 EL midpipe. Super inconvenient considering the 4 month wait for the back box. Got stock exhaust off at the shop just so they could tell me the pipe won’t fit.

[scarygary]

I’m dumb I guess cause I just noticed the metal tab welded on the Active logo and serial. Has F80 on it so this was easily avoidable on my part.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by ESB

Okay I made 2 videos. One showing cold start. Got "lucky" and finally got one where it shows the issue. Not as bad as I'm used to. Note that for the past week+ it hasn't been happening.

Pretty clear when it happens.

You sir - ROCK...thank you for making these vids, they will provide another data point that indicates it isn't a one-off instance.

So yes, in your start-up vid, the raspiness is clearly heard around say 10s and 20s marks for instance. This is EXACTLY the (or one of) troubling noise that is my primary concern. The other one is occasional 'pistol going off' at start up (still need to capture that on video)...but I could live with that if we can eradicate the low RPM one, which is more prevalent.

I will say, or update, my findings as follows: if you're looking for the raspy/tinny sound, you will find it, however...

- during normal driving conditions, the culprit raspy noise is harder to discern, primarily due to cats/engine being warm, road noise, closed windows, maybe radio on, etc. I went for a very spirited drive last night (>1.5hrs, always in Sport+) and my experience, again, mirrors @ESB's 2nd video. Yes, occasionally I heard it while taking off from a light, but it wasn't as pronounced...

- primarily, the noise is very much evident (like in @ESB's 1st video) upon cold startup, and if you are 'focusing' on stationary revving the engine up to 2k RPM. Similarly, aggressively taking off from a stop light, occasionally the noise occurs.

- revving up a warm engine, the raspiness occurs more around 1.5k RPM, not 2k like I originally reported


Cliff notes:
Q1: is the AA EL non resonated better than stock?
A1: absolutely yes!

Q2: is the resulting sound clean throughout the entire RPM band, especially on a warm engine?
A2: no

Q3: how can you duplicate the tinny/raspy noise?
A3: either starting off, or stationary revving through 1.5k up to 2k RPM

Q4: what else do I need to know?
A4: the following use cases:
1. Sport or Sport+ modes (no issue for Efficient)
2. abrupt/fast acceleration. Seems that, at least in my controlled test cases, deliberate slow and controlled take offs don't exhibit the tinny rasp
3. very common for stock DPs and stock muffler and non-resonated EL midpipe
4. may be mitigated/minimized with aftermarket mufflers like Remus Sport/Race, AA valved or others (awaiting more feedback from other users)
5. not as pronounced for resonated AA EL midpipe...regardless of OEM muffler setup or not

[Nicname]

Would love to hear more videos of those with the resonated pipe to see if it helps reduce this sound.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by scarygary

It’s gonna be a little longer to get it put on now. I guess the guy I bought the midpipe from here on the forum, either knowingly or unknowingly, sold me a M3/M4 EL midpipe. Super inconvenient considering the 4 month wait for the back box. Got stock exhaust off at the shop just so they could tell me the pipe won’t fit.

Ooh man, that's a bummer!!! Not sure if I am over-simplifying this, but to my knowledge, the F80 and F87 EL midpipes are pretty much same…just the M4 EL is slightly longer.

Can it be cut/shorten to match up with the beginning of the muffler? The 2 end pieces that match up with the muffler are more or less parallel, just longer for the M3/4 platform. I've attached a picture of my F87 AA EL setup w/ stock muffler. I think it can happen, call up AA to verify (if you still have the m4 EL).

[scarygary]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Ooh man, that's a bummer!!! Not sure if I am over-simplifying this, but to my knowledge, the F80 and F87 EL midpipes are pretty much same…just the M4 EL is slightly longer.

Can it be cut/shorten to match up with the beginning of the muffler? The 2 end pieces that match up with the muffler are more or less parallel, just longer for the M3/4 platform. I've attached a picture of my F87 AA EL setup w/ stock muffler. I think it can happen, call up AA to verify (if you still have the m4 EL).

For sure it’s possible, but I’d rather not risk ending up with the wrong length on one side. I feel like the midpipe is in demand enough that somebody with an M3/M4 will buy it from me. The difference in the midpipes seems to be the bends by the crossover, too risky I feel to modify.

[No_curebimmer]

So, while we all are trying to pinpoint a resolution or a a possible install culprit….can anyone who DOES NOT have the raspiness validate what a good installation is?

I posted a picture of my own AA EL non rez…nothing looks suspicious to me, but some suggested to check the welds, bolts clearance etc. Can anyone see something off or not kosher per se? I suspect everyone else's should be identical…

[Finz]

I am the lone vote thus far for EL non res and stock axle back. I hit that button by mistake on my phone. I have the same cold start issue but will say it is not a deal breaker. I either let the car warm up or just drive off very slowly for 1/4 mile, then it is gone. Perfect? No. Huge improvement over stock? Yes. I also am having the AA axle back installed tomorrow so I'll give an update after that.

[photorph]

Nice updates everyone. Look out for an update from me mid next week. Having the RESONATED AA EL installed with Remus RACE. Stock downpipes of course. Let's see if any issues of raspiness/tin can sound occur or not.

[Navy Davy]

Originally Posted by photorph

Nice updates everyone. Look out for an update from me mid next week. Having the RESONATED AA EL installed with Remus RACE. Stock downpipes of course. Let's see if any issues of raspiness/tin can sound occur or not.

Can you please post vids of your AA EL resonated with the Remus without burbles? I'm on the fence on ordering that setup or a Dinan catback with an AA EL resonated.

[Supadice]

Originally Posted by photorph

Nice updates everyone. Look out for an update from me mid next week. Having the RESONATED AA EL installed with Remus RACE. Stock downpipes of course. Let's see if any issues of raspiness/tin can sound occur or not.

I can't wait for this

[No_curebimmer]

Hope everyone had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend!

I just reviewed this clip of a fellow F87 member @AM///M2C who has stock DPs, the non-rez EL + AA new valved muffler


I didn't distinguish the raspiness around 1,5k or 2k RPM that the majority here are complaining about, so I'm thinking that adding an aftermarket muffler does help quite a bit?

Thoughts, comments?

Edit: just listen to this via headphones...much better/realistic/engaging vs. phone or laptop, and really, IMO, this is the best sound I have heard from an S55 motor.

Sidebar: I could be mistaken, but is it possible that the burbles could somehow interfere with the raspy noise or somehow mask it? My burbles are coded off via BimmerLink. Do all of you who reported as having the rasp have burbles on or off?

[No_curebimmer]

Folks - if you're running stock DPs, non-rez EL + some aftermarket muffler/exhaust, please post vids.

@mike@x-ph.com: judging from the video that I posted above, it seems that having an axle back muffler significantly minimizes (some or most) raspiness. Probably you received this question quite a bit, but now that you're in tune (pun intended) with the concern on this thread...and given your experience since you are the DE FACTO F87 tuning vendor for us: can you recommend which muffler will best be suited to alleviate the raspiness we reported <2k RPM, while also improving the overall tone?

IMO currently the only feasible/affordable options are:

- Remus Sport: if you're looking for a louder/cleaner tone without being too bombastic, obnoxiously loud (especially if stock DPs)
- Remus Race: it you want to be bonkers as most users have reported this is the loudest
- AA new valved: this is still somewhat new product, but more users are getting this installed as a Remus Sport alternative
- Dinan axle back - can this even be mated with the AA EL (resonated or not)? I guess one would have to remove the x-pipe that the Dinan comes with

I am not really considering less desirable, common or affordable options like AWE, Akrapovich, Eisenman or Milltek.

[Supadice]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Hope everyone had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend!

I just reviewed this clip of a fellow F87 member @AM///M2C who has stock DPs, the non-rez EL + AA new valved muffler


I didn't distinguish the raspiness around 1,5k or 2k RPM that the majority here are complaining about, so I'm thinking that adding an aftermarket muffler does help quite a bit?

Thoughts, comments?

Edit: just listen to this via headphones...much better/realistic/engaging vs. phone or laptop, and really, IMO, this is the best sound I have heard from an S55 motor.

Sidebar: I could be mistaken, but is it possible that the burbles could somehow interfere with the raspy noise or somehow mask it? My burbles are coded off via BimmerLink. Do all of you who reported as having the rasp have burbles on or off?

This sounds great

[ESB]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Hope everyone had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend!

I just reviewed this clip of a fellow F87 member @AM///M2C who has stock DPs, the non-rez EL + AA new valved muffler


I didn't distinguish the raspiness around 1,5k or 2k RPM that the majority here are complaining about, so I'm thinking that adding an aftermarket muffler does help quite a bit?

Thoughts, comments?

Edit: just listen to this via headphones...much better/realistic/engaging vs. phone or laptop, and really, IMO, this is the best sound I have heard from an S55 motor.

Sidebar: I could be mistaken, but is it possible that the burbles could somehow interfere with the raspy noise or somehow mask it? My burbles are coded off via BimmerLink. Do all of you who reported as having the rasp have burbles on or off?

I guess my only comments are that his videos are once everything is warmed up and not everyone is reporting raspiness at 2k in that scenario. So it's hard to pinpoint whether it's the muffler that is making the difference.

His video is also from March which is around the time I got my midpipe. If you have a theory that perhaps the earlier batches are immune then that would apply to these videos as well :/

With all of that said, someone commented on my YouTube cold start video that they experience much less rasp at cold start with aftermarket muffler. So you indeed may be on to something but I'd caution against using this video as a proof point.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by ESB

I guess my only comments are that his videos are once everything is warmed up and not everyone is reporting raspiness at 2k in that scenario. So it's hard to pinpoint whether it's the muffler that is making the difference.

His video is also from March which is around the time I got my midpipe. If you have a theory that perhaps the earlier batches are immune then that would apply to these videos as well :/

With all of that said, someone commented on my YouTube cold start video that they experience much less rasp at cold start with aftermarket muffler. So you indeed may be on to something but I'd caution against using this video as a proof point.

10-4, understood! Although convincing, the video from @AM///M2C is merely 1xdata point and can't be conclusive or representative of a proven solution...until many other users post their feedback with non-res EL and any aftermarket axle back muffler.

With that in mind though...my baseline may be unique in that I can have the raspy noise regardless of cold or warm engine. Thus, if I can eliminate the raspiness once the engine/cats are warm, I will be golden....

Lastly, to eliminate that this wasn't an install issue, tomorrow I have an appt. with my indy BMW shop who installed my non-rez EL: I'll have them check for any clearance issues, bolts/brackets touching, exhaust leaks etc. I will post my findings...

P.S. @ESB given the videos you posted a few days back, your setup sounds suspiciously similar to mine - so I take it back that you're no longer considered an early adaptor of the non-rez AA EL.