BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Another Spun Crank Hub!

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-03-2022, 04:17 AM   #1
Bass_Masterson
RIP E39
Bass_Masterson's Avatar
37
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 95 T/A, 08 GL450, 20 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Somewhere in time.

iTrader: (0)

Another Spun Crank Hub!

So I was one of those who thought it would never happen to me. I have a 2020 M2 Competition M6 with only about 7,500 miles. It was tuned, BM3 Stage 2 AGG. I mostly drove the car like a grandma, and was more about cornering than acceleration, ie. I did not drive it hard very often, and when I did, it usually wasn't high RPM/throttle (why even own the car? I know, I know). Never missed a gear or overrevved the engine. Performed maintenance as or more frequently than required.

Then, lo and behold, cruising down a hill at 0% throttle and 1200 RPM, the drivetrain malfunction message pops up. Exhaust note sounds different. Message says I can still drive, so I do. Car felt like it was out of time (lack of power, obnoxious rap from the exhaust, hesitation on throttle). I drove it very gently once the message popped up. Drove it back home and scanned for codes. Sure enough, camshafts correlation to crankshaft out of tolerance. Reading live data while running also showed VANOS compensating for 16 degrees of timing. Here we go.

Decided to try BMW (I live in Korea with a US spec model, so thought maybe I could flash it back to stock and get away with it). Turns out they had never heard of this problem, but the advisor researched some American websites and found the problem was indeed known. They took the car in and started diagnosis, which must've lasted all of 5 minutes, because BMW Korea wanted a read out from the DME, which obviously showed the software had been tampered with. So, I was on my own (which I was kind of relieved because I didn't want the same parts going back in).

I opted for the Precision Dynamics single pin one-piece design. It seemed most fool-proof for installation. As far as the tune contributing to the problem, I am doubtful of that theory. Until I see some actual evidence or proof, I continue to maintain these failures are just random. Having more power/torque from just a tune doesn't put any additional stress on the crank hub, as long as you stay under redline. If someone DOES have facts to the contrary, please share. I don't accept BMW's answer because of course they would say that.

After being away for work for two months and looking around for a shop that would let me use a bay, I finally began four days ago.

I won't do a DIY write up, as those already exist either on this or other forums or Youtube. But I will describe a few takeaways from my experience.

My crank bolt did not seem as tight as I was expecting it to be. Using a 3/4" breaker bar, it didn't take an excessive amount of force to loosen it. Surely less than it took to torque it. Perhaps that lends to the theory these failures occur because the crank bolt loosens somehow (or maybe weren't torqued properly from factory, or a material issue caused them to stretch too much. Who knows).

You can use a friend and a pry bar pushed into the flywheel teeth (at the bottom of the bell housing) to hold the crank for removal/installation of crankshaft bolt. Not the "correct" tool, but it worked without any issue. Didn't leave marks on the flywheel teeth, either.

Lock the A/C belt tensioner back with a dowel/rod, it will save you a lot of headache with the tight serpentine belt.

The location of the hole for the flywheel/crankshaft index pin (the tool used to locate and hold the crankshaft at #1 TDC). I ended up buying a one day subscription to BMW TIS (well worth the $30, in this case). No other source I found mentioned you had to remove a plastic plug from the hole (picture below). In my case, I could not see it, and I was feeling for a hole, not piece of plastic, so I had a lot of difficulty with this. However, once I saw the picture from TIS, it was easy to pull it out and insert the pin.

With the spark plugs out, it's easy to rotate the engine from the alternator pulley. This makes it easy to set/check timing without trying to get a socket on the crank, and also makes it easy to insert the index pin by yourself.

I found it easiest to insert the pin from below the car, then lower the car to turn the engine while wiggling the pin into place. I was able to do this myself, and I did not remove the J-pipe from the intake manifold. I did have to remove the small wiring bracket near the index pin location, though, as it did not allow the pin to fully insert.

Disconnecting the two wires from the passenger side which go across the engine bay makes dealing with anything around the valve cover much easier.

Finally, one neat feature of the S55 is if you set the timing with the cams 180 degrees off it's non-interference. Don't ask how I know that.

All in all, it wasn't too bad, and took me about 24 hours total time, including some *cough* re-treading an already walked path. Also includes a ton of time spent looking for tools in an unfamiliar shop and using the wrong tools for the job (it's not an active mechanic repair shop anymore, they mostly do detailing/tint, so they didn't have a ton of tools). I give this job 1000/1000 curses upon BMW's unholy name.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Bass_Masterson; 02-03-2022 at 06:37 AM..
Appreciate 9
FaRKle!3996.00
chris7197273.00
F87source7179.00
GjXray111.50
6speed_M23481.50
kimbow67.50
Got f1?679.50
      01-03-2022, 07:01 AM   #2
CoffeeLife
Coffee Every Day
CoffeeLife's Avatar
397
Rep
359
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: South Korea

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2021 BMW M2C  [10.00]
Oh no, yea engine work is hit or miss out here lol. Glad you got that fixed though and it doesnt seem like there way anything serious.
__________________
-2021 M2C, HS, 6MT
-AST 5100, AP Racing 9660, BMW-788M, RF-GT4, BW-TA5R, APR GT 250 Wing & Front Splitter
-TMS Diffuser, TMS F80 Skid Plate, HEX Armor PPF, CAN-Checked Data Logger, RaceBox
-Recaro Pole Position , 2kBody Half Cage, Pinnacle Motorsports Half Cage (On order), CAE Shifter
-Remus Race + BR EL Mid
Appreciate 1
      01-03-2022, 08:24 AM   #3
M3R1
Colonel
2147
Rep
2,335
Posts

Drives: ///M2cs
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Glad to see you got it sorted. More glad to see that it only threw a code and there was no internal damage as a result.
__________________
BSM ///M2cs, 6spd
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2022, 09:53 AM   #4
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
23795
Rep
190,150
Posts


Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (23)

Thank you for sharing
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/

Phone number 702-494-9435
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2022, 10:05 AM   #5
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

Congrats on sorting it out. Doesn't spun crank usually destroy the engine? Surprised it was that easy for you.
I installed the crank bolt capture plate for extra insurance.
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2022, 12:02 PM   #6
to_riffic
Lieutenant General
to_riffic's Avatar
United_States
3010
Rep
13,745
Posts

Drives: rwd
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (38)

So did BMW essentially void the warranty after the scan as well?
__________________
~loud noises~

Appreciate 0
      01-03-2022, 12:04 PM   #7
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Congrats on sorting it out. Doesn't spun crank usually destroy the engine? Surprised it was that easy for you.
I installed the crank bolt capture plate for extra insurance.
I think most of the time it throws off the timing and goes into limp mode. From what I've read the pistons don't usually go smashing into the valves but it can happen.
That's quite a beefy tune! Stage 2+ is a lot of power for driving like a pensioner 😀.
Appreciate 3
      01-03-2022, 03:49 PM   #8
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7179
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think most of the time it throws off the timing and goes into limp mode. From what I've read the pistons don't usually go smashing into the valves but it can happen.
That's quite a beefy tune! Stage 2+ is a lot of power for driving like a pensioner 😀.
Yeah most of the time valves don't hit the pistons, the only time that really happens from what I have seen is on money shifts.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2022, 03:56 PM   #9
Bass_Masterson
RIP E39
Bass_Masterson's Avatar
37
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 95 T/A, 08 GL450, 20 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Somewhere in time.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Congrats on sorting it out. Doesn't spun crank usually destroy the engine? Surprised it was that easy for you.
I installed the crank bolt capture plate for extra insurance.
Forgot to add, when I read the data with it running, the VANOS was compensating for 16 degrees of timing, so it only slipped a little bit. Thankfully no internal damage, and she runs just fine. I'll probably give it a few weeks on the stock tune to make sure it's all good, then flash it back. Though I don't use that power very often, it's fun to have in my pocket!

I'm pretty sure they voided my warranty. Communication is difficult as I don't speak Korean, haha. They did set a permanent "Software tamper" code that I can't erase with BM3. I requested they do not update the software and they agreed before they looked at the car.

I am hoping they did not lock my DME, is there any way to tell besides trying to flash?
Appreciate 1
      01-03-2022, 04:11 PM   #10
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7179
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass_Masterson View Post
Forgot to add, when I read the data with it running, the VANOS was compensating for 16 degrees of timing, so it only slipped a little bit. Thankfully no internal damage, and she runs just fine. I'll probably give it a few weeks on the stock tune to make sure it's all good, then flash it back. Though I don't use that power very often, it's fun to have in my pocket!

I'm pretty sure they voided my warranty. Communication is difficult as I don't speak Korean, haha. They did set a permanent "Software tamper" code that I can't erase with BM3. I requested they do not update the software and they agreed before they looked at the car.

I am hoping they did not lock my DME, is there any way to tell besides trying to flash?
Unless they did a new istep they didn't lock your dme. You can always use the test connection method to check if it's flashable. Mhd has one, and I think bm3 does too
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
      01-04-2022, 03:07 AM   #11
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

unfortunately BM3 doesnt go to great lenghts to hide the tune, its visual in plain sight. Alot of the other tuners do everything they can to hide the updates.
Appreciate 1
chris7197273.00
      01-04-2022, 06:23 PM   #12
tropicatango
Captain
tropicatango's Avatar
Canada
424
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: Bmw f87 M2c hockenheim silver
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (2)

Sad it happened but no damage to your engine.... everything is stronger now, and you'll never have to worry about it again....

In the end it's the best of both world, you run it oem thinking everything would be fine... you were bad lucked and it happened to you ....

Now, you can drive like you stole your grand mother car....without any worries
Appreciate 2
      01-04-2022, 10:21 PM   #13
MadM2C
Private First Class
74
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: Bmw m2 comp
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

can you define stage 2 +?
Stage 2 + E85?
No capture bolt?
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2022, 12:12 AM   #14
Bass_Masterson
RIP E39
Bass_Masterson's Avatar
37
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 95 T/A, 08 GL450, 20 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Somewhere in time.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadM2C View Post
can you define stage 2 +?
Stage 2 + E85?
No capture bolt?
Stage 2 Aggressive is the name of the map I used, for 93 octane.

Only other mods were catless downpipes, straight piped exhaust, ultimate clutch pedal, and Autosolutions short shifter.

I didn't install a bolt capture because there simply isn't any data on if they actually prevent the OEM timing sprocket from slipping. I'm not saying they don't work, but I think it would have failed even if I had installed one.

Last edited by Bass_Masterson; 02-03-2022 at 06:37 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2022, 10:50 PM   #15
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass_Masterson View Post
Stage 2+ Aggressive is the name of the map I used, for 93 octane.

Only other mods were catless downpipes, straight piped exhaust, ultimate clutch pedal, and Autosolutions short shifter.

I didn't install a bolt capture because there simply isn't any data on if they actually prevent the OEM timing sprocket from slipping. I'm not saying they don't work, but I think it would have failed even if I had installed one.
How do you like the UCP and SSK? I'm guessing they didn't notice or care about those in light of the DME.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2022, 11:24 PM   #16
tropicatango
Captain
tropicatango's Avatar
Canada
424
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: Bmw f87 M2c hockenheim silver
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (2)

Ucp and ssk is a must on this car

I recently sat in a g80 m3 and the clutch pedal is a lot higher than my m2c with ucp

Shifter is very soft oem, ssk make everything tighter and bolt action style

Do it ! you can't regret
Appreciate 4
chris7197273.00
mzcp2657.00
(K)1240.50
Got f1?679.50
      01-06-2022, 12:26 AM   #17
Bass_Masterson
RIP E39
Bass_Masterson's Avatar
37
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 95 T/A, 08 GL450, 20 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Somewhere in time.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
How do you like the UCP and SSK? I'm guessing they didn't notice or care about those in light of the DME.
They didn't seem to care. They replaced the serpentine belt tensioner last year under warranty with no issues. Can't blame THAT on a tune!

They're essential mods, in my opinion. UCP is great. So nice being same height as the brake pedal. I set the assist spring in the firmest slot and it's still a little soft, but it's consistent and travel is shorter. CDV delete also done before the pedal, and that is also well worth it.

Autosolutions SSK is superb. Never been a fan of BMW shifters (my M2C reminded me of a tighter version of my 97 540i shifter, and car had 205,000 miles). BMW doesn't seem to put money into improving its manuals, and for good reason, few buy them. I opted for the 30% reduction, stock height, and bronze urethane bushings. Throw is short but not ridiculous, virtually all play and rubbery feel is gone, and the lever clicks into place in a satisfying manner. Shift effort is a bit higher, which I like, but that might turn some off to going over 20% reduction.
Appreciate 3
chris7197273.00
(K)1240.50
      01-06-2022, 12:44 AM   #18
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass_Masterson View Post
They didn't seem to care. They replaced the serpentine belt tensioner last year under warranty with no issues. Can't blame THAT on a tune!

They're essential mods, in my opinion. UCP is great. So nice being same height as the brake pedal. I set the assist spring in the firmest slot and it's still a little soft, but it's consistent and travel is shorter. CDV delete also done before the pedal, and that is also well worth it.

Autosolutions SSK is superb. Never been a fan of BMW shifters (my M2C reminded me of a tighter version of my 97 540i shifter, and car had 205,000 miles). BMW doesn't seem to put money into improving its manuals, and for good reason, few buy them. I opted for the 30% reduction, stock height, and bronze urethane bushings. Throw is short but not ridiculous, virtually all play and rubbery feel is gone, and the lever clicks into place in a satisfying manner. Shift effort is a bit higher, which I like, but that might turn some off to going over 20% reduction.
Awesome, thinking about doing those mods myself, just a little paranoid about the warranty.

I'll probably go with 15% because I don't really mind the stock throws or effort that much, just the feel.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2022, 05:07 PM   #19
SEAT TIME RULES
Major
SEAT TIME RULES's Avatar
1095
Rep
1,261
Posts

Drives: 20 BMW M2C 17 Mazda MX-5 RF
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: "Get Busy Living, or Get busy Dying"

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M2C  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Congrats on sorting it out. Doesn't spun crank usually destroy the engine? Surprised it was that easy for you.
I installed the crank bolt capture plate for extra insurance.
As others have already posted spinning a crank hub rarely causes exhaust valve piston contact. You would have to spin the hub severely....

This is why I've not worried about a SCH and have also added the CBC....Worst case is several hours labor to get in there and re-align it if it does spin..
__________________
2005-2006 BMWCCA Boston Chapter president
2004 Mazda Rev It Up Finalist
2002-Present HPDE Instructor
My 2020M2C Build: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1696726
Appreciate 2
(K)1240.50
      01-06-2022, 10:57 PM   #20
Bass_Masterson
RIP E39
Bass_Masterson's Avatar
37
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 95 T/A, 08 GL450, 20 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Somewhere in time.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
As others have already posted spinning a crank hub rarely causes exhaust valve piston contact. You would have to spin the hub severely....

This is why I've not worried about a SCH and have also added the CBC....Worst case is several hours labor to get in there and re-align it if it does spin..
Are you referring to only replacing the crank hub bolt and re-timing the engine? I wouldn't recommend that. My friction discs were completely destroyed and I would not trust them to hold it any longer, and mine only slipped 16 degrees.
Appreciate 1
chris7197273.00
      01-07-2022, 11:33 AM   #21
SEAT TIME RULES
Major
SEAT TIME RULES's Avatar
1095
Rep
1,261
Posts

Drives: 20 BMW M2C 17 Mazda MX-5 RF
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: "Get Busy Living, or Get busy Dying"

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M2C  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass_Masterson View Post
Are you referring to only replacing the crank hub bolt and re-timing the engine? I wouldn't recommend that. My friction discs were completely destroyed and I would not trust them to hold it any longer, and mine only slipped 16 degrees.
Whatever needs to be done to re-secure it...

My point is that the engine isn't damaged its just needs to have the timing reset and to replace any parts to secure it.

Many people that have a SCH go with one of the aftermarket SCH solutions available. Your already in there might as well button it up as secure as possible...
__________________
2005-2006 BMWCCA Boston Chapter president
2004 Mazda Rev It Up Finalist
2002-Present HPDE Instructor
My 2020M2C Build: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1696726
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST