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      12-06-2021, 08:03 PM   #1
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Lowering on coilovers

What dropped is good for track and street? Lowered same all around or higher on rears? TIA
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      12-07-2021, 07:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2RAW View Post
What dropped is good for track and street? Lowered same all around or higher on rears? TIA
OG M2
Rake (the rear being higher than the front) is used to increase turn in grip, the trade off is more oversteer on corner exit.

The MK3 Focus RS for example had a really pronounced rake for exactly this reason.

I recently fit coilovers and ever so slightly increased the rake (rear is approx 5 mm higher than the front, over the delta from the stock values), hard to say if it made much difference as the car handles different to the previous setup, but that might be due to the new shocks and springs. ie I have no way to isolate the effect of the rake.

Personally I would let a race shop near you take care of the setup. Just tell them if you want an understeer/neutral/oversteering car. It may take several sessions to dial in what you want handling wise.
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      12-07-2021, 10:43 AM   #3
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BMW recommends 595/600, which seems to work great for the street, and general tracking.
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      12-07-2021, 10:47 AM   #4
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And that's lower than you probably think.
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      12-07-2021, 11:15 AM   #5
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And that's lower than you probably think.
You think 590f/595r would so good in terms of comfortably

This measured by fender to the bottom of the wheel right?
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      12-07-2021, 11:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2RAW View Post
You think 590f/595r would so good in terms of comfortably

This measured by fender to the bottom of the wheel right?
Yeah, I've heard of guys running 590/595 without issues at all. And yes, bottom of the wheel to the fender/quarter lip. It's actually pretty hard to do since the bottom of the wheel lip is round, and so is the fender/quarter lip. Your eye reference point has to be exact for each location. Most guys just "eyeball" it. I spend a few hours on it. lol

The thing is, with the MPS all the way down in the rear it's 600, so that's why you don't see more guys running 590/595; they need a different suspension.

Lastly, always remember that the passenger side rear of the body itself sits several mm higher. It's different for every car apparently, but it's absolutely higher. You can go measure it now and see. And even when you bottom out the MPS it's there, so it's in the body. I know, weird.
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      12-07-2021, 07:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2RAW View Post
What dropped is good for track and street? Lowered same all around or higher on rears? TIA
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I lowered 10mm front and rear from Stock height with Ohlins. Works well for me for Street and many Track days.
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      12-09-2021, 11:17 AM   #8
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I prefer a little bit of rake on the F87 both aesthetically & for track performance. The car is on point with this setup. Very manageable exit oversteer (which I prefer) and sharp on entry. Entry push didn't appear until the fronts were done (corded). I like this setup - but front lips might not agree

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      12-09-2021, 06:06 PM   #9
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      12-11-2021, 06:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I prefer a little bit of rake on the F87 both aesthetically & for track performance. The car is on point with this setup. Very manageable exit oversteer (which I prefer) and sharp on entry. Entry push didn't appear until the fronts were done (corded). I like this setup - but front lips might not agree

OG how is the car under heavy braking? My car is similar great turn in, controlable oversteer on exit (gotta learn to be less greedy with the throttle).

On hard braking the car is still a little nervous and I would like to try and minimize that.

Also how low did you go and did you do any roll center correction?

I got some used Bilstein Clubsports and they are great, appart from the spring groan when low speed steering.
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      12-12-2021, 08:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
OG how is the car under heavy braking? My car is similar great turn in, controlable oversteer on exit (gotta learn to be less greedy with the throttle).

On hard braking the car is still a little nervous and I would like to try and minimize that.

Also how low did you go and did you do any roll center correction?

I got some used Bilstein Clubsports and they are great, appart from the spring groan when low speed steering.
What I found was that this setup would accentuate poor braking form on my part. When I would get sloppy with the pedal the car would get nervous like you saw too. Poor form on my part would typically be too hard of an initial press which I started out doing quite often. I left foot brake and when I also use my left leg to keep me stable in the stock seat with the 3pt I can tend to get too hard on the brakes when I bring my foot back over. This setup seemed to be less forgiving with that error giving me a bit of the wiggle. Wasn’t unstable though but yeah something would rather not have. Focusing on my form definitely would clear that up - not a bad thing to help reinforce better habits with me but also would prefer a bit more leeway there too.

Have not done any roll center correction to this point. So far all we are working on is the nitron setup - I want to get this kit as dialed in as possible before making any other changes.
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      12-16-2021, 02:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
What I found was that this setup would accentuate poor braking form on my part. When I would get sloppy with the pedal the car would get nervous like you saw too. Poor form on my part would typically be too hard of an initial press which I started out doing quite often. I left foot brake and when I also use my left leg to keep me stable in the stock seat with the 3pt I can tend to get too hard on the brakes when I bring my foot back over. This setup seemed to be less forgiving with that error giving me a bit of the wiggle. Wasn’t unstable though but yeah something would rather not have. Focusing on my form definitely would clear that up - not a bad thing to help reinforce better habits with me but also would prefer a bit more leeway there too.

Have not done any roll center correction to this point. So far all we are working on is the nitron setup - I want to get this kit as dialed in as possible before making any other changes.
I think part of the problem is the 3 point belt. I right foot brake and brace with the left but my bodyweight still shifts making the release quite tricky.

I guess I brake hard but not into ABS so its a bit lame that the car get a bit twitchy on threshold braking. Maybe thats the downside of the fun short wheelbase.
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      12-16-2021, 04:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I think part of the problem is the 3 point belt. I right foot brake and brace with the left but my bodyweight still shifts making the release quite tricky.

I guess I brake hard but not into ABS so its a bit lame that the car get a bit twitchy on threshold braking. Maybe thats the downside of the fun short wheelbase.
Yeah the 3pt is awful - definitely a negative for the comp. Being stable would be a world of difference.
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      12-18-2021, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Yeah the 3pt is awful - definitely a negative for the comp. Being stable would be a world of difference.
I want some 5/6 points and racing buckets but it is still my "daily" so don't want to go too hardcore.

Mulling over whether the daily bike + a ride share subscription will do for errands etc meaning the M2 can become more of a track car.
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      12-21-2021, 10:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I guess I brake hard but not into ABS so its a bit lame that the car get a bit twitchy on threshold braking. Maybe thats the downside of the fun short wheelbase.
Newb here and I experienced this once or twice my first weekend on track. Was hoping coilovers would help. Guess not

I’m considering the Turner monoball for the front thrust arms to help with this as well. Can anyone speak to any meaningful benefit from those specific to this issue?
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      12-22-2021, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I want some 5/6 points and racing buckets but it is still my "daily" so don't want to go too hardcore.

Mulling over whether the daily bike + a ride share subscription will do for errands etc meaning the M2 can become more of a track car.
I will have our half cage and Cobra Nogaros installed before my next big track outing in the M2C. Trying to find that sweet spot between daily driver and track car. I think it can be done with the proper seat but not sold on the Nogaros being it for me. If not happy with them then going to try the Recaro Sportster CS. Not full on race seat level for the track but I think will still perform well for the intended use.
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      12-24-2021, 08:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I will have our half cage and Cobra Nogaros installed before my next big track outing in the M2C. Trying to find that sweet spot between daily driver and track car. I think it can be done with the proper seat but not sold on the Nogaros being it for me. If not happy with them then going to try the Recaro Sportster CS. Not full on race seat level for the track but I think will still perform well for the intended use.
Looking forward to your comments on this.
I'm struggling with the same goals on this one.

I'm curious as to why the Recaro Sportster CS are a consideration.
IIRC they don't have slots for sub-straps.
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      12-27-2021, 12:15 PM   #18
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Looking forward to your comments on this.
I'm struggling with the same goals on this one.

I'm curious as to why the Recaro Sportster CS are a consideration.
IIRC they don't have slots for sub-straps.
I have an ulterior motive with the CS - looking for seats for my 69 camaro and those are high on the list - so really would like to try one anyways. Can adapt them for a 6pt if need be if happy with them in the M2C. The GT would likely be a better starting point for that though if going with the sportster line.
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      12-27-2021, 01:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I have an ulterior motive with the CS - looking for seats for my 69 camaro and those are high on the list - so really would like to try one anyways. Can adapt them for a 6pt if need be if happy with them in the M2C. The GT would likely be a better starting point for that though if going with the sportster line.
Thanks!
I wasn't aware that the GT has sub-strap as an option.
I really love those seats!
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      12-27-2021, 03:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Thanks!
I wasn't aware that the GT has sub-strap as an option.
I really love those seats!
Yup, only the GT has the sub strap cutout. It wasn't there on the original GTs, but was added to the current revision.

The only thing about the Sportster line is the harness holes are a bit low. Furthermore, if anybody is thinking of getting a Sportster CS/GT to use with a quickfit, don't bother, the harness holes are WAY too low to be safe (unless you're like 5'4").
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      01-01-2022, 11:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Yeah the 3pt is awful - definitely a negative for the comp. Being stable would be a world of difference.
I want some 5/6 points and racing buckets but it is still my "daily" so don't want to go too hardcore.

Mulling over whether the daily bike + a ride share subscription will do for errands etc meaning the M2 can become more of a track car.
Same!
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      01-02-2022, 09:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman’s Brother View Post
Newb here and I experienced this once or twice my first weekend on track. Was hoping coilovers would help. Guess not

I’m considering the Turner monoball for the front thrust arms to help with this as well. Can anyone speak to any meaningful benefit from those specific to this issue?
The monoballs should help the braking somewhat as the car changes from toe in to toe out to toe in etc due to the flex in the suspension rubber. The rear tension arms would also help.

At the end of the day the SWB is the enemy at high speed. I rly want to try my mates M4 to see the difference (we have similar mods) that the LWB makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I will have our half cage and Cobra Nogaros installed before my next big track outing in the M2C. Trying to find that sweet spot between daily driver and track car. I think it can be done with the proper seat but not sold on the Nogaros being it for me. If not happy with them then going to try the Recaro Sportster CS. Not full on race seat level for the track but I think will still perform well for the intended use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvaughan View Post
Same!
I too want the Nogaros and even went as far as to get leather samples...but ive been putting my mod money elsewhere and into seat time

I had the sportster CS seats in my FoRS, they were very comfy but not for bigger people. The hold was better than the M seats on the thighs but about the same on the shoulders/ribcage. Bare in mind im a smaller guy. Also 4 point only and I wouldn't even do that since they are not 1 piece buckets.

The Nogaros can pull a neat trick im just too short for... You can ask for a 2nd custom seat base that is much thinner than the "stock" one. With this you can sink about an 1 -1 1/2 inch into the seat for trackdays giving you more lateral leg support. In my case doing this drops my shoulders below the harness holes which is a no go.
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