05-19-2020, 12:23 AM | #45 | ||||
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BMW front engine, rear drive with understated style is best option imo for daily life with some fun available on tap. If your all about the track hard to beat a P car. |
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05-19-2020, 10:11 AM | #46 | |
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I drove the GT4 and the 981 GTS and considered the 718. Found the M2 platform to be far more fun for daily, and more than competent enough for half dozen-ish track days a year, plus I have my E36 for track as well (which I plan to swap for a 981 S in the next couple of years for low cost track duty). I also see SOOO many P-Cars at every cars and coffee, cruise, etc that the BMW's are actually "rarer". So the CS will indeed be far more exclusive for what that will matter. It just looks better to me, and has back seats I can take my kids to car events in as well. It was a no-brainer across the board. The only competition it really had was from the flat plane in the GT350...
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05-19-2020, 11:49 AM | #47 | |
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05-19-2020, 12:05 PM | #48 | |
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Excellent post. The M4 CS removals were especially stupid. Come on guys, let's stop trying to pretend this is an actual race-car. GM does not remove the cupholders from a Camaro ZL1 1LE and that is arguably a more track-focused car than anything BMW builds. I fear that this will still sit on lots. My barometer is if Artemis isn't too keen on it, then they've missed the mark. |
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05-19-2020, 01:55 PM | #49 | |
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Tell me why the M4CS is superior to the M2CS beyond the slightly nicer interior? (I really wish the CS was getting the leather on the lower dash.) There is almost a 100kg difference in weight. M4CS has more stated HP/TQ, The M2CS should keep pace with the M4CS. M4CS was overpriced at $102k. Seems to be well received at $80k and the M2CS is $84k. My guess is that maybe 2500 M4CS got produced? It's a very similar car, but priced where the market seemed to want the M4CS to start. |
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05-19-2020, 02:33 PM | #50 |
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Think the M4CS would have CF driveshaft. I'm not 100% certain on the drive shaft as it got a bit sketchy on dates and at times if that even happened. Don't flame me, maybe they were long gone by the time of the CS.
OLED tail lights, HUD and genuine M colour in terms of SMBlue. Not all luxuries gone and if similar pricing once reduced .... it's extra features.
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05-19-2020, 02:53 PM | #51 | |
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05-19-2020, 02:56 PM | #52 | ||
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M4CS has OLED tail lights so, um yeah it has them
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05-19-2020, 02:59 PM | #53 | |||
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05-19-2020, 03:03 PM | #54 | ||||
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The conversation was around what the M4CS has and stripping our kit etc. Necessarily or not. Luxury item or not. I don't say anywhere one is better than the other. There was already talk about some things being removed being pointless to save weight. So yeah if you feel the M4CS is better because it has OLED might great. It does have them though
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05-19-2020, 03:05 PM | #55 | |||||
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05-19-2020, 03:35 PM | #56 |
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I thought we were discussing whether the fate of the M2CS will follow the M4CS? I say it's almost the same car for the price people were willing to pay for it. Now I want to hear why that isn't true. I'm not super knowledge about the M4CS.
For $80k is M4cs>M2cs or just different aka = If that's the case, then the M2CS may be priced better than we thought and may be desired. Trying to add some method to madness, not trying to bash one or other. |
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05-19-2020, 03:50 PM | #57 |
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the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree
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05-19-2020, 04:04 PM | #58 | |
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If estimations are correct, there are less than 500 M2CS coming to the US. *And comparably equipped, a GT4 will run you significantly more. People who choose the M2CS will buy it for the exclusivity
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05-19-2020, 04:04 PM | #59 |
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In the US the M2CS is not 100K, you can't buy a new GT4 for that (You'll have a hard time buying a 2016 for 85K of a M2CS still as many still float high 80's to 90s, but it's definitely possible), and they made more GT4's than 350 for the US... and more than 2200 for the world.
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05-19-2020, 04:09 PM | #60 |
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Why rarer in the first place , and how do you compare those 2 . Those cars are a lot different ! For my needs , i would choose the CS even if the GT4 RS was in production and cost the same amount of money . Its like comparing a Megane RS with an Alpine A110 - both share same engine , but are totally 2 different cars ! In that logic , no one should have bought a M2 CS and everyone should go for a Cayman ! No , each car - each brand has its own character , its not all about specs on papers etc .. the thing with the GT4 and the M2CS is not new , but each car has its own customers , and for each customer different needs . Is not all about 4 seats , i dont need 4 seats , i may never use the back seats , should i buy a GT4 ? I dont think so !
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05-19-2020, 04:29 PM | #61 | |
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I don't think the M2CS will sit. Boils down to two reasons: 1) The M2 has consistently been bought/sold/reviewed as the "fun" M car and in the US at least, isn't on the lots much and holds its value very well. I've also met more M3/M4 owners that buy them just because it's the "top" 3 series, not because they wanted a performance car. Even more the case with the M5. I have not encountered that with M2 owners. 2) The sixth digit. It's a big psychological barrier. Suddenly getting some nice window dressing, the maximum inline six configuration, and a special trunk badge at regular M3 money (plus the options for CCB's or manual transmission if you so choose). Sold! The M3/M4CS broke the psychological barrier and was still carrying the baggage of the F80 platform "not being very good" from the earliest reviews bashing it when it launched. I don't think people wanted to dish out even more money to see if it had really finally been "fixed" (sound, feel, whatever). The M2 doesn't need fixing. So anything added is something gained.
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2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S Last edited by sdhotwn; 05-19-2020 at 04:45 PM.. |
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05-19-2020, 04:38 PM | #62 | |||
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I guess the M2 was not boujee enough for them to spent the engineering budget on new lights. So I say you're also correct, if that's important to your argument but it's by mere chance that the M4 CS got the swanky OLED taillights and maybe that's reflected in the lower price M2 CS, so I say it's a toss-up. Until then, there is nothing Photoshop can't fix |
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05-19-2020, 09:30 PM | #64 | ||||||||||||||||
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05-20-2020, 10:48 AM | #65 | ||
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Spend the same and get a GT4 - have you tried? Good luck getting one for $100K, and if you do, you'd wish you had added a few options to the stripper as the bare bones 718 looks rental car like inside without some must-have options (buckets, full leather, deviated stitching). I suggest you drive a GT4 before you come to any conclusions. Having owned 2 brand new 981 GT4s, I will tell you openly for me that car will forever be etched in history as 'the car it could have been'. It was pretty clear PAG stopped short from having its reach its full potential (giving it a very pedestrian non-GT engine and very tall gearing that was a buzz kill). The 718 is a facelift of the 981, and the new 4.0 engine while marginally better, still has same tq while dealing with increased weight, and the same tall gearing. Even a modestly equipped GT4 will run you in the 120s. (FWIW, I feel they nailed the Spyder, this time making it truly the top-less GT4 with the same engine, brakes, and suspension specs as the GT4, which was not the case with the 981 Spyder). Quote:
I get it - for existing M2/M2C owners the delta to CS is pretty steap price-wise. But for folks like myself - and I assure you - there is more than 400 of us States-side, we have been patiently waiting the entire model lifecycle for the pinnacle of the M2. So back on topic - I do not see these 'sitting' on dealer lots and getting massive discounts given both the limited supply, and enough demand to meet that. Heck, EAG can scoop any 'residual' and wait till you see what they will reappear as on their site a few weeks later And btw, the delta between the M2C/M2CS and the M4C/M4CS is far greater. In the M4 you can get CF roof, adaptive suspension, CCBs, etc. (and needless to say the delta in power output was slimmer) - all forbidden fruit on the M2C, so there is even a stronger argument the jump between the C and CS respective models offers a much higher delta (and thus 'value' to those that are value-driven) on the 2 than on the 4. |
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05-20-2020, 11:13 AM | #66 | |
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We must be sensitive to the M2CS being significantly pricier in other markets. I agree with all you have stated being a fellow US buyer. I would also agree that the changes to the M2CS from C is greater than M4CS from C. This is why I'm beginning to think that the M2CS isn't overpriced. It just doesn't present much value over the M2C. The M4CS appearing nonsensical now that I'm looking at it since most options were available on the C. Edit: As a point of reference I do frequent PorscheUS to see what is out there. It's hard for me to find a spec that I like in a color that I want. Most colors I don't find appealing. This morning I was looking a 991GTS manual with aerocup kit. List at $106k. I could probably get it under $100k. It's certified, low miles etc. I just don't see the value there between the M2CS and a used GTS that isn't exactly what I want. Especially when factoring in on-paper statistics and usability of coupe vs sportscar. I can certainly get a used 991.1S in the $80s the way I would want. I'm a value buyer. I'm driving my current car because I got a great deal and it's a good value to me. M2CS is a good value to me when shopping used 991/992 variants. If I were purchasing a used 991.1 it would have to have an original sticker in $140s and me buy it in upper $70s to low $80s with under 25k miles. Those deals are out there. The value to me being the 50% off MSRP for a low milage excellent car vs actually loving the 991. Last edited by medphysdave; 05-20-2020 at 11:32 AM.. |
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