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      09-30-2021, 03:55 PM   #1
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Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time. I drove the ZF automatic.
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      09-30-2021, 04:01 PM   #2
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I haven't driven one but have driven an M5 and my summary was the same, muted. Fast as shit, but large and unengaging. I'm sure the M3 is the same just a bit more agile. Not sure if you drove an auto or a MT, but the DCT in the M2 adds so much drama too. That and reduce the noise insulation and the M2 is designed to be different.
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      09-30-2021, 04:27 PM   #3
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It's definitely relative. The M2C feels sterile compared to Z4M, for example. I think it requires more time to get used to the feel of the car before you can really figure out where it stands. My experience is that going from a smaller car to larger car always feels worse initially. It's all about what you're looking for from a car, though.
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      09-30-2021, 04:28 PM   #4
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That’s too bad but not surprising. I’ve abused the M5 and it is crazy fast, crazy stable at all speeds and angles. It just feels like the computers have complete control which for me takes the fun out of the experience.
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      09-30-2021, 04:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time.
I think the reason you're experiencing that is simply the tune of the S58. The M2C S55 is tuned for more low end torque, coupled with a shorter wheelbase and more narrow tires, the car is a completely different experience from the G80.
The G82 I test drove felt super planted around corners and soaked up the bumps pretty well. The S58 makes more power up top & not as much tq down low, so it feels much different than the S55.
Plus, with the wider contact patch and wider overall tires, it's just a different experience.
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      09-30-2021, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
I haven't driven one but have driven an M5 and my summary was the same, muted. Fast as shit, but large and unengaging. I'm sure the M3 is the same just a bit more agile. Not sure if you drove an auto or a MT, but the DCT in the M2 adds so much drama too. That and reduce the noise insulation and the M2 is designed to be different.
Thanks, I drove the automatic.
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      09-30-2021, 09:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time.
I think the reason you're experiencing that is simply the tune of the S58. The M2C S55 is tuned for more low end torque, coupled with a shorter wheelbase and more narrow tires, the car is a completely different experience from the G80.
The G82 I test drove felt super planted around corners and soaked up the bumps pretty well. The S58 makes more power up top & not as much tq down low, so it feels much different than the S55.
Plus, with the wider contact patch and wider overall tires, it's just a different experience.
I agree on your assessment but if I'm going to spend close to a $100K then it should feel special all the time. But it looks like I need to drive this thing like a maniac to extract fun, which is illegal on public roads.

I'm hoping the next M2C or CS will be more entertaining and the S58 should be tuned differently for this application.
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      09-30-2021, 09:53 PM   #8
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That's what I told you before. It is an immensely capable car, that for a non enthusiast is a no brainer choice over the M2C.

The M2C though slower and more bare bones is simply more enjoyable for the enthusiast. Bonus is that you get a decent sensation of speed too. The G80 you literally have no idea how fast you are going as it is so incredibly capable. Amp the enjoyment up another 50+% for M2CS which means 50+% more annoying for the non enthusiast.
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      09-30-2021, 10:04 PM   #9
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That's what I told you before. It is an immensely capable car, that for a non enthusiast is a no brainer choice over the M2C.

The M2C though slower and more bare bones is simply more enjoyable for the enthusiast. Bonus is that you get a decent sensation of speed too. The G80 you literally have no idea how fast you are going as it is so incredibly capable. Amp the enjoyment up another 50+% for M2CS which means 50+% more annoying for the non enthusiast.
Haha true @ M2CS assessment!

I might as well wait and get the next M2CS, given that I already have an X5 for the family.

I will probably still keep the F87 M2C as a daily and save the CS for weekends.
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      10-01-2021, 12:32 AM   #10
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Not an expert by any means but I took the M Car Control Class last week with the M3 and M4's both in Auto. After some braking drills and autocross abusing the hell out of them, I can say I agree that the "fun factor" takes a lot of speed and g-force, since they're so composed and controlled, not to mention that they both can get there so much quicker.
Maybe since they were auto? but I felt just about the same level of "fun" driving out of the empty racetrack roads in my M2C.

Now only if I were to take the M2 to a track...
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      10-01-2021, 08:54 AM   #11
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M2 driver's experiences of the G80 do not get me excited about the G87.
Bigger with a longer wheelbase and less low end torque, I just can't imagine it will be as fun as the M2.
no doubt it will be faster and more capable but prolly less fun.
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      10-01-2021, 11:20 AM   #12
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I test drove both G80 manual and automatic extensively (as I was trading in F80 manual), but finally placed order and took delivery of F87 manual.

To me, it depends on what the person is looking for. G80 is a super awesome package; there is hardly any other offering this package. My personal take was

- G80 is Super comfortable and you can feel the luxury, puts power down very well, keeps gripping and a great $$ value package
- Though I love manual, I felt if I were to G80 I would rather get the auto (auto was delivering better experience for the vehicle size than manual)
- G80 felt way less drama than F87 and it was not a hooligan like F87
- Since I wanted bit more of the raw feel, the hooligan bull dog rowdy nature along with less of the digital distractions, I went with F87 manual.
- Also, as I have a 21'X5M50i with DHP, I was not really looking for comfort, practicality, luxury etc... and wanted just a personal rowdy $60K batmobile

So, to me its depends on what you are looking for. I will for sure change my 21'M2c in next 5years; at that time I might get a F87 CS as a keeper OR a G80 Xdrive / or even an electric Mcar - depending on what my preferences change then .

For now, am super super happy with my M2C and everytime I drive I feel I made the right choice as it fits what I was looking at this point in time. Next week I am doing my breakin service
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      10-01-2021, 07:28 PM   #13
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I've driven the G80C and to me, it's more of a testament to how fun the F87 is rather than how boring the G80 is. I definitely don't agree about this being like the F90 though, it definitely has more personality than that car. It might be heresy to say this on a BMW board but I felt the same way about the E39 M5 (gasp). Amazing car that can do everything well, but def doesn't have a lot of drama.

While some may take it as a negative, I love the F87 because you can clearly tell it doesn't take itself seriously. Whether you're looking at the acceleration times or lap times, it's nothing THAT amazing IMO. But it's exactly this, in combination of its size is what will make it an instant classic. Whereas the G8x grips and grips, the F87 is playful all the damn time.

However, if you're looking for a 4 door manual, the G80 would be my only choice.
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      10-02-2021, 07:52 AM   #14
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I don't think the G8x is overrated in any way - its showing to be a great platform. Lots of power with good grip out of the box - nothing wrong with that at all. Plus it is still one of the few with a 6spd option. The problem though imo is that this platform and many of the current ones like it have so far out driven street limits that they now risk providing a very numb driving experience for some people. They are becoming so fast & have so much grip that it can really just feel like a point & click experience if you are staying within reasonable limits. And if everything else that helps provide the desired driving experience starts to get muted too (sound, steering, etc) - then to me I really start to lose the joy in the car. But that is a personal thing for me - I've gotten to the point in life where my enjoyment on a street drive is about lot more than just speed - and for me that is more than what a car like G8x can provide at this time. Doesn't diminish how great the platform is - just that it is not the best one for some at this time. Going to be a lot of people that love the G8x - truly should be an awesome platform.

BTW - I've gone up the ladder & back down to settle on the E90 M3 being the ultimate street car . Love me some F87 but the E90 M3 gets the nod more often than not.



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Next week I am doing my breakin service
Congrats on the new car! Now get her broken in properly and then out to COTA!

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      10-02-2021, 09:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I don't think the G8x is overrated in any way - its showing to be a great platform. Lots of power with good grip out of the box - nothing wrong with that at all. Plus it is still one of the few with a 6spd option. The problem though imo is that this platform and many of the current ones like it have so far out driven street limits that they now risk providing a very numb driving experience for some people. They are becoming so fast & have so much grip that it can really just feel like a point & click experience if you are staying within reasonable limits. And if everything else that helps provide the desired driving experience starts to get muted too (sound, steering, etc) - then to me I really start to lose the joy in the car. But that is a personal thing for me - I've gotten to the point in life where my enjoyment on a street drive is about lot more than just speed - and for me that is more than what a car like G8x can provide at this time. Doesn't diminish how great the platform is - just that it is not the best one for some at this time. Going to be a lot of people that love the G8x - truly should be an awesome platform.

BTW - I've gone up the ladder & back down to settle on the E90 M3 being the ultimate street car . Love me some F87 but the E90 M3 gets the nod more often than not.



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Next week I am doing my breakin service
Congrats on the new car! Not get her broken in properly and then out to COTA!
Well said. I generally would agree but to me the F87 is at the tipping point where the car is just about to become too sterile - too fast, quiet, and comfortable to be much fun.

I've thought about trading in the M2C but can't think of a single new car with usable back seats that would replace it without crossing that line.
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      10-02-2021, 12:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time. I drove the ZF automatic.
I’ll be curious how the new CT4-V/Blackwing drive compares to the G80. It very well could be more fun for a lot less $$
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      10-02-2021, 06:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCarMayhem View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time. I drove the ZF automatic.
I'll be curious how the new CT4-V/Blackwing drive compares to the G80. It very well could be more fun for a lot less $$
It could be but then wouldn't you be sad you didn't get the the V8?

I find my possible future car purchases very confusing. I'll be getting married with kids probably in the not too distant future, how much of a factor will that be when I want a new car? Also without having driven any of these cars yet I can't really have an opinion, but this is where my head is at.

G80. The last MT sedan you can get from BMW. People don't seem terribly impressed with the transmission though or the way it pulls. The G80C however seems to impress with speed but the ZF8 on paper seems poor substitute for DCT. Exhaust is a bit quiet people say. Car looks strange but interior is okay. I don't live where I need Xdrive but if I lived someplace with snow do I need this? Wouldn't I need winter tires either way? Car is heavy and big as it is, Xdrive is more weight but if you're going for the auto ZF maybe just go all in? Why does the audio system suck on such an expensive car? Upside is I feel the g80 can accommodate my future family needs, I could custom order it and drive it until I can't afford gas anymore. The ride quality is supposed to be improved but will it seem numb to me? My SO will appreciate the ZF8 I guess.

CT5 Blackwing. This more expensive than the g80. It's bigger and heavier. It looks kind of meh but I don't hate it. At least the g80 looks like something... For such a big car the rear seats and trunk seem smaller than the g80. That just bothers me. How do you make a bigger car with less room? I assume it feels less nimble than the g80 but can't be sure. The engine and transmission seem great, but I'm picky, I like cars that want to rev quickly, but at least this sounds good, feels good, and has character. Would running cost be cheaper than the g80 because parts are cheaper? I bet the sound system is good. The ride is supposed to be great, but I like to feel something.

CT4 Blackwing. I'll feel like I didn't really get what I want. Don't know until I drive it though.

G87 m2. We don't know anything about it really but it has the same bad transmissions as the g80. It's bigger and heavier than my f87 and what do I get for it? Will it be more fun? I doubt it. Will I appreciate the interior upgrades? Maybe. Does it look goofy? Maybe. The way BMW detuned the m2c engine bugs me, I'm hoping the detuned on the s58 here doesn't go flat at 5k rpm otherwise I don't think I'd buy one unless I can tune the engine.

A used f80 CS. More special feeling than the f80. San Marino blue. Smaller and lighter than the g80. It's like getting a g80 CSL for less. I assume more character than a g80. Why no arm rest, comfort access, or dual zone climate? The weight savings seems a bit pathetic over f80 base. Maybe I should look for a well modded f80c in an interesting color instead?

Porsche 997 or 991.1 gt3. The hail marry. Try to get one now before I can't? I pretty much already can't but I could sell something and try and let the chips fall were they fall. I like M cars though because I'll daily drive them. This feels like a weekend car.

G81 m3 wagon. Lol they'll never bring this to the USA. I feel I would be willing to have a more numb ride if I was getting a lot more practicality.

Keep what I have. F87 m2 and e90 m3. The m2 is playful and easy to use and the e90 has some practicality with 4 doors and engine as close to a gt3 as I may ever get. Will these last another 15 years though? I'm nervous to even take the e90 m3 on a road trip now.
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      10-02-2021, 08:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCarMayhem View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Is the M3C G80 overrated?

I drove one and it felt sterile overall. When you push it it drives aggressive just like the M2C but with less drama. It's very stable and comfy and performance (speed) is outstanding. No doubt it's a VERY fast car. Overall felt like it was missing the X factor when compared to my M2C. The M2C felt fun at all speeds, especially at lower speed limit it is still a blast to drive and that's where the M3C just felt so normal and like a 340i. I drove the M3C for 15 minutes, including freeway.

After the test drive I kept thinking of all the auto journalist who have been praising this car but I just felt nothing special out of the ordinary.

Did anyone feel the same? Or did I miss anything? I will try to do a longer test drive next time. I drove the ZF automatic.
I'll be curious how the new CT4-V/Blackwing drive compares to the G80. It very well could be more fun for a lot less $$
It could be but then wouldn't you be sad you didn't get the the V8?

I find my possible future car purchases very confusing. I'll be getting married with kids probably in the not too distant future, how much of a factor will that be when I want a new car? Also without having driven any of these cars yet I can't really have an opinion, but this is where my head is at.

G80. The last MT sedan you can get from BMW. People don't seem terribly impressed with the transmission though or the way it pulls. The G80C however seems to impress with speed but the ZF8 on paper seems poor substitute for DCT. Exhaust is a bit quiet people say. Car looks strange but interior is okay. I don't live where I need Xdrive but if I lived someplace with snow do I need this? Wouldn't I need winter tires either way? Car is heavy and big as it is, Xdrive is more weight but if you're going for the auto ZF maybe just go all in? Why does the audio system suck on such an expensive car? Upside is I feel the g80 can accommodate my future family needs, I could custom order it and drive it until I can't afford gas anymore. The ride quality is supposed to be improved but will it seem numb to me? My SO will appreciate the ZF8 I guess.

CT5 Blackwing. This more expensive than the g80. It's bigger and heavier. It looks kind of meh but I don't hate it. At least the g80 looks like something... For such a big car the rear seats and trunk seem smaller than the g80. That just bothers me. How do you make a bigger car with less room? I assume it feels less nimble than the g80 but can't be sure. The engine and transmission seem great, but I'm picky, I like cars that want to rev quickly, but at least this sounds good, feels good, and has character. Would running cost be cheaper than the g80 because parts are cheaper? I bet the sound system is good. The ride is supposed to be great, but I like to feel something.

CT4 Blackwing. I'll feel like I didn't really get what I want. Don't know until I drive it though.

G87 m2. We don't know anything about it really but it has the same bad transmissions as the g80. It's bigger and heavier than my f87 and what do I get for it? Will it be more fun? I doubt it. Will I appreciate the interior upgrades? Maybe. Does it look goofy? Maybe. The way BMW detuned the m2c engine bugs me, I'm hoping the detuned on the s58 here doesn't go flat at 5k rpm otherwise I don't think I'd buy one unless I can tune the engine.

A used f80 CS. More special feeling than the f80. San Marino blue. Smaller and lighter than the g80. It's like getting a g80 CSL for less. I assume more character than a g80. Why no arm rest, comfort access, or dual zone climate? The weight savings seems a bit pathetic over f80 base. Maybe I should look for a well modded f80c in an interesting color instead?

Porsche 997 or 991.1 gt3. The hail marry. Try to get one now before I can't? I pretty much already can't but I could sell something and try and let the chips fall were they fall. I like M cars though because I'll daily drive them. This feels like a weekend car.

G81 m3 wagon. Lol they'll never bring this to the USA. I feel I would be willing to have a more numb ride if I was getting a lot more practicality.

Keep what I have. F87 m2 and e90 m3. The m2 is playful and easy to use and the e90 has some practicality with 4 doors and engine as close to a gt3 as I may ever get. Will these last another 15 years though? I'm nervous to even take the e90 m3 on a road trip now.
I have an X5 for my family needs and a M2C for myself.

I do feel the itch to get an M3C as a car that I could take my family for trips and still have a blast doing so. With the M2C it's tricky! I just don't want to cram my 2 kids on the back seat and I feel it may not be as safe oversell as an SUV. This is where the M3C will shine though.

I am also looking at the G87 but this time will go for the CS version if it's special enough.
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      10-03-2021, 05:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I've driven the G80C and to me, it's more of a testament to how fun the F87 is rather than how boring the G80 is. I definitely don't agree about this being like the F90 though, it definitely has more personality than that car. It might be heresy to say this on a BMW board but I felt the same way about the E39 M5 (gasp). Amazing car that can do everything well, but def doesn't have a lot of drama.
That's just it with a car like the E39 M5. It was the perfect street missile of its day - an all around great car that was the fastest 4-door sedan in the world back then. I spent 15 years with one (sold it in 2018 on BaT), but I expected way too much from the car initially, in the early years, without sufficiently respecting its intended mission.

Examples: (1) rolls too much, destroys outer front edges on track (literally 0 degree front camber spec, no adjustment) so on went Dinan springs, Konis, rear sway bar, Ground Control camber plates, rear wheels up front for square setup. Now (2) even using HT-10s, I eviscerated the caliper dust covers and even melted a caliper piston seal at VIR (running R-comps and driving the car very hard). The stock brakes are way undersized for the weight and power of the car, so on went the Stoptech BBK -- huge improvement and now unreal braking from triple digit speeds with PFC-08 pads and Ti shims; greatly improved feel and modulation also.

Somewhere along the way I added the Dinan monoballs when they came out, and they added a lot of NVH especially over sharp chassis inputs like Botts markers. Nice improvement in steering feel, especially under heavy trail braking. However, it was around that time I realized how far I had strayed with the car from the original intent for the car.

This feeling was particularly apparent after I bought an E90 M3 in 2012 and had it as a comparison which it blows away the E39 M5 in so many performance experience areas, especially the steering (fast rack and pinon versus lethargic recirculating ball), brakes, and LSD. The M5 uses a traditional BMW Salisbury LSD with equal ramps, so it enhances the push, understeer, on corner entry helping to make the 4000lb M5 a pig in slow speed corner entry -- it feels horrible compared to the E90 M3 with its Visco-LOK essentially open on slow speed corner entry.

Long story long, I ended up taking off the BBK and monoballs and returning the car closer to stock with stock front wheels (no more horrific tramlining!), and the car was wonderful to drive on the street again. Compared to the E90 M3, it was much quieter, more comfortable, sedate feeling -- the perfect car to drive across country (actually did this in the M5 in 2004).
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      10-03-2021, 11:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by veenut28 View Post
Well said. I generally would agree but to me the F87 is at the tipping point where the car is just about to become too sterile - too fast, quiet, and comfortable to be much fun.

I've thought about trading in the M2C but can't think of a single new car with usable back seats that would replace it without crossing that line.
Absolutely agree - the M2C is right there on the line for me as well.
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      10-05-2021, 02:54 PM   #21
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I've owned both and tracked both as well. They are different cars and don't think you can go wrong with either depending on what you're looking for.
I would say that for me, the M2C felt a touch more "raw" due to the smaller size and tighter cabin feel paired with the DCT which is sharper and more engaging to use than the ZF. On the same note, the M2 was also more twitchy and edgy around corners or from a dig. This can also add to the drama. The S55's low to mid range torque delivery is most likely responsible for this and it does make the M2 feel more intense in that power band. This can be both good and bad depending on what you're looking for.

On the other side, the G8x is much more "mature" in the sense that it puts the power down extremely well both from a stop and out of corners, it rotates much better under trail braking, the increased chassis rigidity makes it feels and behave more stable and composed at the limit and the engine/transmission tuning makes it deliver its torque very smooth and rev out without any jerkiness especially in the 1st or 2nd gear. All this is fantastic for performance but it does take away some of the "raw" feel that the M2 had.

I loved the M2C but the main reason I traded it in was because I got a great deal on the trade in and I wanted the new generation platform with all its improvements.

So if you want a smaller, tighter car with more edginess and a touch more rawness, the M2C is just fantastic. If you want more pure performance, the new G chassis will deliver!
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      10-06-2021, 12:41 AM   #22
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2020 BMW F87  [9.50]
We got an X5M Comp with 617hp. That's 33% more HP than the M2C! But the X5M is minivan in comparison. The little car is feisty, way fewer techy things and visceral at all speeds. It's just more raw, but confidence inspiring and is always ready for more. I don't mess around with TC off, but I exclusively drive it in sport + and MDM. So a lot of work is done by TC still, but it's still pretty squirly.

When I drive the X5M, its in the sportiest configuration available, except for TC. Keep that in MDM also.Even so, it remains very sedated and civilized despite the monster engine. It will destroy almost anything else on the market regardless of size and cost....and it's really easy. It does all the work and all wheel drive is amazing. It feels at ease doing anything that's considering 'pushing it'.

I absolutely prefer the M2C. And not just because I prefer manual transmissions. It's sporty and leaves me happier knowing that. The raw feeling and doing a good share of the work to be fast is cool.

The one caveat though, on a closed course, I got real surpassed by the X5M with all the TC off and the trans in manual shift mode. (The requirement for launch control and even with the trans in manual mode, it does the shifting during the launch and I forgot) It'll get out of shape real fast without TC. And being new to the rig, I was slapping at every lever thing I could find. Just trying to grab upshifts to get back in line without lifting.
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