[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

Proof for a miserable guy who spends all day messing with my parts? Lol lay down...

Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but I only offer my opinions on concerns that I feel require it, OP talked about bbk's and shaved calipers popped up so I gave my opinion on both topics.

For example if I were spending all day messing with your parts I would be on every single thread you created but I'm not. That's because not all your parts are bad, some stuff you make is excellent like your brake ducts and your coil over remote reservoir holders. But some stuff you do imo isn't very ideal like shaving down and weaken a brake caliper, or replacing a stiffening plate with a flimsy carbon one.


At the end of the day if someone asks a question I'm going to try to answer it or give my opinion on it, and imo shaving brake calipers without any data showing it's safe to do so is a bad idea.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but I only offer my opinions on concerns that I feel require it, OP talked about bbk's and shaved calipers popped up so I gave my opinion on both topics.

For example if I were spending all day messing with your parts I would be on every single thread you created but I'm not. That's because not all your parts are bad, some stuff you make is excellent like your brake ducts and your coil over remote reservoir holders. But some stuff you do imo isn't very ideal like shaving down and weaken a brake caliper, or replacing a stiffening plate with a flimsy carbon one.


At the end of the day if someone asks a question I'm going to try to answer it or give my opinion on it, and imo shaving brake calipers without any data showing it's safe to do so is a bad idea.

First you said they were shaved, then David told you no, and since you took a big owned like you, then you held on to weak brackets.

You have no idea about anything and you keep talking nonsense, you can publish posts about magnets and bolts and leave the most complex things for people who understand, read and learn and don't go where you don't know, you are the typical geek who failed to do absolutely anything in his life, and he only knows how to put shit in other people's things.


Tomorrow when I wake up I will have to throw away all the brackets I made for the 2NH, M5 F90 and APracing calipers, because some geek has decided that the brackets that do not come from Brembo are garbage










I'll leave you some pics to see if they give you a heart attack ��



































Soon I will make inconel studs stronger than 12.9 range and rust free I hope you don't mess with them

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

First you said they were shaved, then David told you no, and since you took a big owned like you, then you held on to weak brackets.

I think you need to reread the first page because I never mentioned the brackets once.

Someone asked for a link to the thread where you made brackets for the calipers, to which I sent them this: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1984711&page=4


I also thought that you required the caliper to be shaved as well in conjunction to the brackets and rotors, because your thread did not specify.

This was the only thing there:




So I pointed out shaved calipers are a bad idea for the reasons why I explained above. Dave informed me that you can get away without shaving the calipers if you run the bracket, but he followed up with more about the concern about the brake calipers being shaved and I explained in more depth why I don't think they're a good idea.

Again I never said anything about your brackets because I don't have any problem with them, it has always been above the shaved calipers.... But since you don't have to shave the calipers if you use your brackets, then it should be ok given you designed the brackets properly.

Originally Posted by Track/S

You have no idea about anything and you keep talking nonsense, you can publish posts about magnets and bolts and leave the most complex things for people who understand, read and learn and don't go where you don't know, you are the typical geek who failed to do absolutely anything in his life, and he only knows how to put shit in other people's things.

Right, I have shown time and time again you do some extremely sketchy things that completely contradicts BMW thinking you know better. You even believed you knew better than peer reviewed research scientists based on observations alone. So I wouldn't be so proud of myself if I were you.

But for some reason you've never been able to prove me wrong with actual factual data.

Originally Posted by Track/S

Tomorrow when I wake up I will have to throw away all the brackets I made for the 2NH, M5 F90 and APracing calipers, because some geek has decided that the brackets that do not come from Brembo are garbage

I never said Anything about your brackets, just the shaved calipers.

Here's the problem though, you don't have a huge company or a major reputation of engineering products, so if you want people to trust you actually engineered the products instead of designed it on CAD and machined it out (which are 2 completely different things because one actually analyzes the bracket to ensure they are structurally sound) you need to post more data. These are safety critical items, so images wont cut it. Most major companies like AP racing, Paragon etc All having engineers on board to properly design their products and they stipulate they use FEA to ensure it is safe. Burkhart even posts images too:



Notice the areas of high stress around the bolt hole and flat mating surfaces. If there were similar stress areas on the caliper and you didn't know about it and machined metal away carelessly, that could cause issues with material faitgue or failure. That was my problem with your caliper shaving, not with the brackets.

Originally Posted by Track/S

I'll leave you some pics to see if they give you a heart attack ��

I don't really have much to say about those images except the brackets, because they looked about on par with what people offered and nothing stuck out like a sore thumb just seeing more data showing you properly engineered them would be better.


Your brake rotor hats on the other hand might be a step down from Paragon's rotor hats, because your rotor bolt holes don't have the elongated shape required to allow the rotor hats to float radially (if this is the case then they would offer less performance than stock) but this could still be ok if the friction rings holes were slotted, but I can't tell from the picture. And depending on your fasteners/bobbins they might not be able to float axially either, but again I can't tell from the picture. So I'm not sure this is an upgrade more so as a requirement to fit these brakes on an 18" wheel. Again that is the difference between just being able to design things on CAD to fit space constraints vs. being able to engineer from the ground up, and why I personally only buy brake parts from companies specializing in braking technology with tons of experience and knowledge.

Originally Posted by Track/S

Soon I will make inconel studs stronger than 12.9 range and rust free I hope you don't mess with them

I don't think inconcel is stronger than grade 12.9 steel, and I don't think all forms of inconel is stronger than grade 10.9 steel. But good luck with that, like I said I don't hate on all your stuff (just some particular things that imo are poorly designed or utilized), believe it or not I'm actually glad you're making more stuff for the BMW community, because not many people are willing to.

[Track/S]

If I make them with an ax and measure them with a ruler, the atrocities that I have to read, my god....







With you it is wasting time, since you have no idea what you are talking about, you just watch and enjoy

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

If I make them with an ax and measure them with a ruler, the atrocities that I have to read, my god....







With you it is wasting time, since you have no idea what you are talking about, you just watch and enjoy

That's a 3D scan, nice to have and makes designing parts easier. But that isn't an FEA analysis, and you said I don't know what I'm talking about... This possibly means that you likely just designed the part in CAD and didn't do any testing - which could be bad news when it comes to the rotor hats which do see alot of stress forces...


But like I said before your brackets weren't really a cause for concern, it still would be nice to see they have been designed with FEA in mind so that customers know they are 100% safe. They are pretty close in diamensions to the stock parts, have a standard design, and there are no obvious glaring red flags that could be a cause for concern.


The concern is shaving the calipers, because you could be introducing weakness into the caliper themselves.

For instance this is an image of the CCB caliper:



You can see the bridge region, you can see some parts are recessed and machined away (where the BMW words are stamped on), this was likely done to save weight and because FEA showed that there is enough material there to withstand the strain that it can be a bit thinner there. However the rest of the bridge is thicker, likely because FEA showed these parts to be regions of high stress and therefore Brembo didn't machine them away to ensure they are still strong. What you did that concerns me is you machined all of that off indiscriminately. You also machined off other parts of the caliper as well, and that can introduce new stress points in the caliper body. On the street that might not be a problem, but when you're driving hard on the track and the calipers start heating up significantly then that might be a problem.

[Track/S]

You keep talking without knowing, the floating system has nothing to do with the hat, it is independent, keep reading and learning.

You don't have to show me anything, because I can instruct you and 10 others like you.

FEA. ��

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

You keep talking without knowing, the floating system has nothing to do with the hat, it is independent, keep reading and learning.

You don't have to show me anything, because I can instruct you and 10 others like you.

FEA. ��

Well it depends, most rotors do utilize the hat for the rotor to float radially, because they slot the holes in the hat. But it also heavily depends on the type of bobbin used. If you have those H style bobbins then the bobbin rides in the slots, this is how the GTR brakes are from factory. Some rotors do the opposite and slot the rotor rings and the floating occurs there. But saying rotor float has nothing to do with the hat is really uninformed.

Axial float on the other hand is totally dependent on the bobbin system.


You could post the pictures of the back side of your rotors and show the bolts and bobbin system your rotor utilizes, also show the friction rings themselves to see what the bolt holes on those look like. That'll show what it's capable of in terms of float.



I don't think your physics, chemistry, and mathematical skills are remotely high enough to even come close to instructing me on anything.

[Track/S]

First you claim that my hats are not floating and after informing you on Google you tell me that it depends on the bobbins ahahaha you are pathetic.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

First you claim that my hats are not floating and after informing you on Google you tell me that it depends on the bobbins ahahaha you are pathetic.

No I just realized that paragon doesn't always use their H bobbins (I think that's their flag ship bobbin system) on all their rotors, that they actually have straight bobbins too. So that initially lead me to believe that you didn't reuse their H bobbins, when in reality you could have just gone with a straight bobbin.

But since you haven't posted any images there's still a changes it's just directly bolted to the hat.

But it's why I said "if your rotor doesn't float" not that they don't float.

[Track/S]

You talk as if only paragon exists in the world of brakes.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

You talk as if only paragon exists in the world of brakes.

You're right they're not the only company, but I assumed you used paragon because your post said you used their rings. It's not a bad decision because paragon makes great stuff for a great price.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

You're right they're not the only company, but I assumed you used paragon because your post said you used their rings. It's not a bad decision because paragon makes great stuff for a great price.

I make hats for any rings, ap/paragon/alcon, the simplest floating system is apracing/alcon.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

I make hats for any rings, ap/paragon/alcon, the simplest floating system is apracing/alcon.

Good to know, so long as they retain the proper floating system (so depending on the bobbin system and rings) and are structurally safe then no problem. So if you ever have some time just look into FEA (there are courses online that teaches it and iirc solid works supports it) and that'll ensure all your products are perfect (but it only really matters on safety critical parts everything else doesn't really matter).

I think the best bang for the buck is paragon, it has the cheapest rotor cost out of the bunch and still offers excellent performance. AP racing likely has the best performance though, they are tried and true and have been proven time and time again to be the best.

You should create an E shop so it's easier for people to buy your stuff, you won't have to handle PM's either.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

You should create an E shop so it's easier for people to buy your stuff, you won't have to handle PM's either.

I do it as a hobby

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

I do it as a hobby

I know I nit-pick on everything, but that's because I like perfection. So what im saying is if you pushed for perfection this could be more than a hobby for you, because some of the stuff you make is seriously good and no one else out there is willing to spend the time and money to develop the things you do - coil over canister holders, stiffening plate cover, brake ducts.

[samsamdar]

Bro I bought an M2 because i thought M2 owners weren't F80 owners 😭

[Bee Pee]

Do you do a F8x 18" wheel kit (brackets and rotors) for oem F90 blue caliper ?

Originally Posted by Track/S

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Do you do a F8x 18" wheel kit (brackets and rotors) for oem F90 blue caliper ?

Yes i can do

[Toroinu]

Update: I have the paragon pa035 kit installed for two weeks now and loving it! Clears te37 so will most likely clear other common 18s. I also had the chance to compare them side by side with the AP kit and while the AP racing build quality is amazing, the paragon kit is not far behind especially for half the price! I’ll likely creat a seperate post and provide some pics