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      04-29-2020, 04:11 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post
I landed 10% off MSRP last week, and that was after some hard pushing, it felt like a solid deal, especially since it was the exact spec I wanted. 10% off or better, I think, is "buy it" territory right now. Yes, these dealers are struggling, but selling cars for THAT much of a loss probably isn't going to happen. 10.2% is the highest discount I've seen so far. I've heard rumors of 11% but haven't ever actually seen it.
I got a 11.5% discount right before Covid when there were rumors of shutdown. Unfortunately or fortunately I backed out last minute because I realized I wanted LBB instead of HS. Just this week, this vehicle was still available so you can imagine how hard it has been to move.

A day or two ago, I passed it along to a forum member and they're current working out a deal. I definitely thought we would see more discounts, but I guess a lack of incoming supply, furloughing workers and decreased dealer operational capital has resulted in a market hold.

I read somewhere in a month or two when everything opens back up. There will be an influx of vehicles currently awaiting transport and that may further increase the opportunities .
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      04-29-2020, 06:08 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
There will be an influx of vehicles currently awaiting transport and that may further increase the opportunities .
And an increase in demand when people realize that their car doesnt start and that they can get a new one for the "same payment"!!!!
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      04-29-2020, 06:22 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
There will be an influx of vehicles currently awaiting transport and that may further increase the opportunities .
And an increase in demand when people realize that their car doesnt start and that they can get a new one for the "same payment"!!!!
Eh I hear what you're saying about upgrading with the "same payment" story. But let's hope people have learned from recent recessions that by over leveraging it is what caused the previous recession...

One difference is this crisis moved quickly and people were furloughed just as quick. Similarly, businesses are hesitant to re-hire as they have adapted to a more lean and "productive" workforce. So the pragmatic me would be doubtful people will flock to change into new cars even with the same payments...maybe

Regardless, I'm actually glad I didn't get a car earlier. Unfortunately, with me in the city, it would have sat for 2 months and me paying insurance
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      04-29-2020, 06:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Eh I hear what you're saying about upgrading with the "same payment" story. But let's hope people have learned from recent recessions that by over leveraging it is what caused the previous recession...

One difference is this crisis moved quickly and people were furloughed just as quick. Similarly, businesses are hesitant to re-hire as they have adapted to a more lean and "productive" workforce. So the pragmatic me would be doubtful people will flock to change into new cars even with the same payments...maybe

Regardless, I'm actually glad I didn't get a car earlier. Unfortunately, with me in the city, it would have sat for 2 months and me paying insurance
That was a joke...

And no, people have short memories, and never learn.
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      04-29-2020, 08:26 PM   #71
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A little FYI for some of you leasee out there..

It seems that BMW sees the writing on the wall and knows that vehicle values are going to take a hit, after everything goes back to the new normal.

They are apparently offering deep discounts on potential lease buyouts:


BMWFS: My lease ending soon $6k discount-BMW discounted my residual & purchase price! https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1716072
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      04-29-2020, 09:22 PM   #72
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Backing up someone else's post about terrible trade in rates at the moment:

A friend got really excited by some deals being advertised and went to one of those other German brands to buy a boring box with wheels (he doesn't like boring much but needs more doors so that his spouse stops yelling at him about the spawn they are expecting next month). He has a problematic Chevy, at least problematic for the incoming spawn. He almost bought the box of boring right before all this happened and was offered $17.5 for the Chevy.

All excited for the discounts, off he goes and gets offered $7500. He owes 8k, decided not to proceed, went home and told his spouse that if they want the box, they have to keep both for the moment. Apparently she thinks he just can't negotiate. Could be.

The deals are near pointless for so many people. They're only useful if someone is adding another car, not trading in the one they have, unless one could sell the old car in a private sale to someone who has no idea that the bottom has fallen out of the used car market.
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      04-29-2020, 09:58 PM   #73
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@bri1042 and Poochie thank you for sharing your real world examples.

Interesting comment on the preowned market. I too thought this market would drop as much or if not more than the new market.

However, I've been looking around at a few Carrera T's to see if there are any opportunities. And from what I have gathered, 911 sellers are not really budging. Granted I have anecdotally heard preowned 911s tend to hold their value pretty well. But logic would dictate that this would not be the case when even the P car consumer would be shying away from making purchases and new P cars are discounted more frequently as well; thus should push down preowned cars.

Maybe things will change in a few more weeks as there will be even more supply coming in.

*I understand this is not Rennlist, but figured people may have a POV.
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      04-29-2020, 10:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
@bri1042 and Poochie thank you for sharing your real world examples.

Interesting comment on the preowned market. I too thought this market would drop as much or if not more than the new market.

However, I've been looking around at a few Carrera T's to see if there are any opportunities. And from what I have gathered, 911 sellers are not really budging. Granted I have anecdotally heard preowned 911s tend to hold their value pretty well. But logic would dictate that this would not be the case when even the P car consumer would be shying away from making purchases and new P cars are discounted more frequently as well; thus should push down preowned cars.

Maybe things will change in a few more weeks as there will be even more supply coming in.

*I understand this is not Rennlist, but figured people may have a POV.
There is always going to be consumers for sports, luxury and exotic cars, as they are marketed to a higher caliber of buyers, that can withstand some economic turmoil.

However, eventually, the economics will trickle down and it will have some sort of negative impact on all forms of auto sales.

I don't have a crystal ball but I know one thing; in all my years of being alive, I never, ever seen the entire world, especially the US, completely shut down their entire economy and all forms of commerce, for any given reason, they about their paper 💵.

The aftermath of this pandemic has to have an effect on everything, especially luxury items, such as sports cars.
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      04-30-2020, 08:45 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
They're only useful if someone is adding another car, not trading in the one they have, unless one could sell the old car in a private sale to someone who has no idea that the bottom has fallen out of the used car market.
Exactly, and that is a very tiny portion of new car sales. Most people trade in and even carry loans at that time, so yeah no one knows what the F?
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      04-30-2020, 08:53 AM   #76
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https://www.edmunds.com/industry/pre...forecasts.html

New Vehicle Sales Continue Downward Slide in April, Edmunds Forecasts
Analysts say April will be the worst auto sales month in at least 30 years due to the coronavirus pandemic

SANTA MONICA, CA — April 30, 2020 — The car shopping experts at Edmunds say that April will be a record down month for the auto industry due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, forecasting that 633,260 new cars and trucks will be sold in the U.S. for an estimated seasonally adjusted annual rate (SAAR) of 7.7 million. This reflects a 52.5% decrease in sales from April 2019, and a 36.6% decrease from March 2020. Edmunds analysts note that this is the lowest-volume sales month dating back to at least 1990; the second worst month for sales in the past 30 years was January of 2009, when 655,000 vehicles were sold.

"April auto sales took the biggest hit we've seen in decades," said Jessica Caldwell, Edmunds' executive director of insights. "These bleak figures aren't just because consumers are holding back on their purchases — fleet sales are seeing an even more dramatic drop as daily rental business has dried up. Like many other industries, the entire automotive sector is struggling as the coronavirus crisis continues to cripple the economy."

Edmunds experts note that plans for easing shelter-in-place orders across the country in May could open up opportunities for automakers and dealers to capture some deferred demand, but there is still economic uncertainty ahead.

"April is likely the bottom for auto sales, so hopefully there's only room for improvement from here," said Caldwell. "But with employment and consumer confidence at new lows, the question remains: Will people be in the position to purchase new cars? Although automakers are doing their part by offering landmark incentives, those might not be enough if consumers cannot recover financially from this crisis."


SALES VOLUME FORECAST, BY MANUFACTURER
SALES
VOLUME 2020 April
Forecast April 2019 March 2020 Change from
April 2019 Change from
March 2020
GM 123,408 231,375 167,339 -46.7% -26.3%
Ford 103,105 194,219 169,012 -46.9% -39.0%
FCA 91,766 172,900 127,593 -46.9% -28.1%
Toyota 75,679 183,866 135,730 -58.8% -44.2%
Hyundai/Kia 56,396 108,410 81,500 -48.0% -30.8%
Honda 48,363 125,775 77,153 -61.5% -37.3%
Nissan 35,443 95,698 78,159 -63.0% -54.7%
VW/Audi 25,694 46,333 35,258 -44.5% -27.1%
Industry 633,260 1,333,560 998,268 -52.5% -36.6%
*NOTE: April 2020 had 26 selling days, April 2019 had 25 and March 2020 had 25.


Edmunds estimates that retail SAAR will come in at 6.7 million vehicles in April 2020, with fleet transactions accounting for 13.0% of total sales.


MARKET SHARE FORECAST, BY MANUFACTURER
Market
Share 2020 April
Forecast April 2019 March 2020 Change from
April 2019 Change from
March 2020
GM 19.5% 17.4% 16.8% 2.1% 2.7%
Ford 16.3% 14.6% 16.9% 1.7% -0.6%
FCA 14.5% 13.0% 12.8% 1.5% 1.7%
Toyota 12.0% 13.8% 13.6% -1.8% -1.6%
Hyundai/Kia 8.9% 8.1% 8.2% 0.8% 0.7%
Honda 7.6% 9.4% 7.7% -1.8% -0.1%
Nissan 5.6% 7.2% 7.8% -1.6% -2.2%
VW/Audi 4.1% 3.5% 3.5% 0.6% 0.5%

More insight into recent auto industry trends can be found in the Edmunds Industry Center at https://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/.

About Edmunds
Edmunds guides car shoppers online from research to purchase. With in-depth reviews of every new vehicle, shopping tips from an in-house team of experts, plus a wealth of consumer and automotive market insights, Edmunds helps millions of shoppers each month select, price and buy a car with confidence. Regarded as one of America's best workplaces by Fortune and Great Place to Work, Edmunds is based in Santa Monica, California, and has a satellite office in Detroit, Michigan. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
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      04-30-2020, 09:05 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
@bri1042 and Poochie thank you for sharing your real world examples.

Interesting comment on the preowned market. I too thought this market would drop as much or if not more than the new market.

However, I've been looking around at a few Carrera T's to see if there are any opportunities. And from what I have gathered, 911 sellers are not really budging. Granted I have anecdotally heard preowned 911s tend to hold their value pretty well. But logic would dictate that this would not be the case when even the P car consumer would be shying away from making purchases and new P cars are discounted more frequently as well; thus should push down preowned cars.

Maybe things will change in a few more weeks as there will be even more supply coming in.

*I understand this is not Rennlist, but figured people may have a POV.
While we may assume that many P car owners have deep pockets, its also safe to assume, many do not (people living beyond there means). Values for new / used P cars will follow what happens to the general market, perhaps not as deep due to sheer supply number, but they wont be immune. As a matter of fact luxury good get hit hard as people try to rebuild their finances
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      04-30-2020, 09:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
@bri1042 and Poochie thank you for sharing your real world examples.

Interesting comment on the preowned market. I too thought this market would drop as much or if not more than the new market.

However, I've been looking around at a few Carrera T's to see if there are any opportunities. And from what I have gathered, 911 sellers are not really budging. Granted I have anecdotally heard preowned 911s tend to hold their value pretty well. But logic would dictate that this would not be the case when even the P car consumer would be shying away from making purchases and new P cars are discounted more frequently as well; thus should push down preowned cars.

Maybe things will change in a few more weeks as there will be even more supply coming in.

*I understand this is not Rennlist, but figured people may have a POV.
While we may assume that many P car owners have deep pockets, its also safe to assume, many do not (people living beyond there means). Values for new / used P cars will follow what happens to the general market, perhaps not as deep due to sheer supply number, but they wont be immune. As a matter of fact luxury good get hit hard as people try to rebuild their finances
Good perspective and I too agree with this. Back to your earlier comment, I am buying a new new car since I will be moving out if the city. So this should be my time to capitalize. But from talking to dealers, this has not been the case.

Guess I will see if the tune changes mid to end of May
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      04-30-2020, 10:40 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Good perspective and I too agree with this. Back to your earlier comment, I am buying a new new car since I will be moving out if the city. So this should be my time to capitalize. But from talking to dealers, this has not been the case.

Guess I will see if the tune changes mid to end of May
Patience will pay off here. Once the economy restarts, dealers will get a lot more incentives from P to move cars, so they can clear inventory and restart their factories. You may not get 15% off, bit you'll certainly get more than average on a P car.
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      04-30-2020, 10:48 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Good perspective and I too agree with this. Back to your earlier comment, I am buying a new new car since I will be moving out if the city. So this should be my time to capitalize. But from talking to dealers, this has not been the case.

Guess I will see if the tune changes mid to end of May
Patience will pay off here. Once the economy restarts, dealers will get a lot more incentives from P to move cars, so they can clear inventory and restart their factories. You may not get 15% off, bit you'll certainly get more than average on a P car.
Thank you, BigKutta. Just to be clear, not looking for a new P car, but preowned. Regardless, hoping the trend would be the same in the preowned market.

However, the M2C is still not out of the question yet. But I would aim for least 11%, since they were going for 10% before Covid. However, during this specific time, dealers are holding onto the M2Cs and not giving 7-10% as readily as before. And it makes sense from a dealers perspective with less operating costs and more manufacturer support in terms of cost to hold cars on lots.

The next month and early June would be very interesting. I will be sure to update everyone on progress.
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      05-02-2020, 11:31 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by liontomic View Post
Got another offer for 58k MSRP

I'm trying to push another 1-2k off MSRP but I doubt they'll budge. I'm in San Diego

Buying cars in Cali is a pain
$1 to 2K off MSRP in Socal is a good deal. I am in Socal, just pulled the trigger on a 2020 M2 comp with $2K off $68,590 MSRP from an OC BMW dealer. In the current COVID 19 climate, Socal dealers rarely discount.
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      05-04-2020, 06:25 AM   #82
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$1 to 2K off MSRP in Socal is a good deal. I am in Socal, just pulled the trigger on a 2020 M2 comp with $2K off $68,590 MSRP from an OC BMW dealer. In the current COVID 19 climate, Socal dealers rarely discount.
That's definitely not true - I got a dealer quote me for slightly under invoice in Socal. Heck I'd even ask around the forums to see if there's a sponsored dealer on this forum to give you a better deal than that.
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      05-04-2020, 11:39 AM   #83
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That's definitely not true - I got a dealer quote me for slightly under invoice in Socal. Heck I'd even ask around the forums to see if there's a sponsored dealer on this forum to give you a better deal than that.
I went back to the OC BMW dealer over the weekend, sold out of all M2 comps.
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      05-04-2020, 01:32 PM   #84
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Economists have a term for this, called "revenge buying". Normally it's pretty prevalent in retail where when shops reopen, they see a surge of sales for the short term (yes, even during a recession). Obviously, cars are a lot larger purchase, but I can tell at least for regular cars, there will be a slight upswing as more States open up.

Now the OC market is super interesting because it does not necessary follow logic you would see in other areas. One reason is due to the the OC's apparent price in-elasticity. There is so much wealth concentrated that people do not care about the marginal price considerations of discounts or lack thereof.

That is why for price conscious folks, always check out markets in the Midwest and the South.
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      05-04-2020, 02:21 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Economists have a term for this, called "revenge buying". Normally it's pretty prevalent in retail where when shops reopen, they see a surge of sales for the short term (yes, even during a recession). Obviously, cars are a lot larger purchase, but I can tell at least for regular cars, there will be a slight upswing as more States open up.

Now the OC market is super interesting because it does not necessary follow logic you would see in other areas. One reason is due to the the OC's apparent price in-elasticity. There is so much wealth concentrated that people do not care about the marginal price considerations of discounts or lack thereof.

That is why for price conscious folks, always check out markets in the Midwest and the South.

Thanks JCZ5.
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      05-04-2020, 04:35 PM   #86
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
That's definitely not true - I got a dealer quote me for slightly under invoice in Socal. Heck I'd even ask around the forums to see if there's a sponsored dealer on this forum to give you a better deal than that.
I went back to the OC BMW dealer over the weekend, sold out of all M2 comps.
Irvine bmw has like 3
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      05-04-2020, 11:22 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Irvine bmw has like 3
Sold out...
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      05-05-2020, 01:11 PM   #88
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I tried regionally to get 10-15%. I have been very patient. You get the same speech from every dealer. Eventually I found a new local car that is coming into inventory and was able to get 7% off. I am happy with that because I am very particular with specs of the vehicle. In addition, I am happy with the service the dealership has provided so far and the relationship with the guys there. We'll see how it goes...
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