[Montaver]

Watching Shmee saw at the wheel is depressing, he couldn't even keep up with the pace car. You would think given the amount of nice cars he has owned and driven he would be better than that.

[ASAP]

I think the Misano blue w black wheels looks great... but HS w Black Wheels

The gold... that doesnt work for this car at all honestly... it doesnt fit the character of the car.

[///AVM]

Do we need Chris Harris to show us the M2C can drift around a track?

Besides, I'm pretty sure Chris already decided what M2 was worth having to HIM.

Does anyone really think anything revolutionary is going to be shared with anymore press releases, reviews or posted track times?

It's a simple $25K question . . . do YOU want it?

///AVM

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MR.

There were four social influencers driving it; three Germans and Tim...

Tim looked nervous during the drive, not quite at ease. OK, he was not familiar with the track and the car, and usually he's not into wild driving antics, but still (Cup2 + dry weather). As if he was struggling to keep the back-end under control. At some point he coined the car's driving dynamics as "playful", but it rather sounded as an understatement for "ants in the pants". You could also see the pace car (skilled driver) slipping out of balance at some point (see 10:07).

It's still early, that's true, but it looks as if a pattern starts to discern in early bird M2 CS reviews: 450hp is a lot of power to process for this compact car with shorter wheel base than M3/M4. Let's keep an eye on what future M2 CS reviews say about keeping the power under control: just right or unsettling ? Driving Cup2's in the rain is already something, but it looks like that will be sketchy with the M2 CS.

Fairly speaking, I'm a bit concerned.

[lax01]

Just let me know when the dealers can't sell them and they are offering 10-15% discounts

Didn't realize BMW put 245/265 Cup2s on the CS too...that's pretty dumb...pretty dumb.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by lax01

Just let me know when the dealers can't sell them and they are offering 10-15% discounts
Didn't realize BMW put 245/265 Cup2s on the CS too...that's pretty dumb...pretty dumb.

I know someone who was offered a 20% discount by a dealer. He refused (though I considered that a decent deal).

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by lax01

Didn't realize BMW put 245/265 Cup2s on the CS too...that's pretty dumb...pretty dumb.

Why would you say that, the tire size or the hazard of of wet-weather driving?

It's tire, for me, they wear out in less than 8,000 miles, I really don't see the big deal with consumables, just replacement them..

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by lax01

Just let me know when the dealers can't sell them and they are offering 10-15% discounts

Didn't realize BMW put 245/265 Cup2s on the CS too...that's pretty dumb...pretty dumb.

They had to put it on cup 2s. Remember, the M2CS is basically a combination of enhanced M performance parts. BMW already sells 763M style wheels with cup 2, makes perfect sense to just include them on a track focused car.

And whether it makes sense from an owners perspective, that's a different story that can be debated.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Artemis

At some point he coined the car's driving dynamics as "playful", but it rather sounded as an understatement for "ants in the pants". You could also see the pace car slipping out of balance at some point (see 10:07).

It's still early, that's true, but it looks as if a pattern starts to discern in early bird M2 CS reviews: 450hp is a lot of power to process for this compact car with shorter wheel base than M3/M4. Let's keep an eye on what future M2 CS reviews say about keeping the power under control: just right or unsettling ? Driving Cup2's in the rain is already something, but it looks like that will be sketchy with the M2 CS.

I mean, from what I read, the extra 40hp is top-loaded, where it only kicks in above 4K RPM, so how much more uncontrollable can it be, over the standard Competition model?

I don't believe overwhelming power would be the CS's claim to fame but just its subjectively better handling.

[AlpsRider]

Anyone that owns a tuned M2C will tell you that it puts out a lot of power for the original chassis and tires. We will see if the CS adaptive is good enough to handle the power. A tuned M2C needs coilovers to handle all that torque.

[lax01]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I know someone who was offered a 20% discount by a dealer. He refused (though I considered that a decent deal).

On a CS? Already?

Originally Posted by Poochie

Why would you say that, the tire size or the hazard of of wet-weather driving?

It's tire, for me, they wear out in less than 8,000 miles, I really don't see the big deal with consumables, just replacement them..

Originally Posted by JCZ5

They had to put it on cup 2s. Remember, the M2CS is basically a combination of enhanced M performance parts. BMW already sells 763M style wheels with cup 2, makes perfect sense to just include them on a track focused car.

And whether it makes sense from an owners perspective, that's a different story that can be debated.

Not the fact that they are used Cup2s....that they didn't increase tire size to something reasonable for the platform - 245/265 is pretty skinny

Also, check the price of Cup2s haha - I wonder how many will replace with them (I wouldn't)

[JCZ5]

@lax01 ah I see what you mean. Yeah, that is a valid point. But I doubt BMW would put in the effort to create a whole new larger wheel for just ~2,200 units. On the other hand, maybe BMW should and just make it as a M performance wheel option. After all, virtually all components in the CS are available or soon to be available in some form in the M performance catalog (eg. Spoiler, mirror caps, splitter, etc.)

Also, in many EU countries, the M2CS have already been receiving "large" discounts and seem pretty hard to move. Also keep in mind the M2CS price tag is significantly higher in EU countries with additional taxes and fees.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by lax01

On a CS? Already?
Not the fact that they are used Cup2s....that they didn't increase tire size to something reasonable for the platform - 245/265 is pretty skinny
Also, check the price of Cup2s haha - I wonder how many will replace with them (I wouldn't)

Lax

You do not have to get Cup 2s, as I think PS4S is the other option and is best suited for most. . . I think it is pretty safe to assume most M2CS buyers are going to spend most of their time on the road and not the track.

///AVM

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I mean, from what I read, the extra 40hp is top-loaded, where it only kicks in above 4K RPM, so how much more uncontrollable can it be, over the standard Competition model?
I don't believe overwhelming power would be the CS's claim to fame but just its subjectively better handling.

M2 CS: 450hp & 550Nm | M4 GTS: 500hp & 600Nm. Different size - different wheel base.

Now look here, Poochie and imagine driving the M2 CS in the wet on Cup2's:

M4 GTS in EVO Car Of The Year 2016:

"I turn the wipers from frisky to frantic, transfer control of the DCT to the paddles and narrow my focus on the crimson flare of brake lights ahead barely penetrating the spray but almost semaphore active. The ease with which the M2 is keeping up - indeed, is all over - the car in front, without asking much from me, is a surprise. I'll reveal what those flashing tail lights belong to in a moment, but the first intriguing insight of the day is starting to form.
If there wasn't much to get worked up about climbing into the M2 after breakfast - the minimally massaged generic 2-series interior is comfortable,
well-designed, nicely made and easy to see out of - it's starting to work a little magic now, though somewhat against type. With its well documented love of drifting locked out by the traction and stability electronics and my desire not to drop it before a single photo has been taken, a degree of dimensionality and the more nuanced aspects of its chassis' dynamic make-up have dropped away. But not its appetite for speed across the ground, even in these filthy conditions. This will become a recurring theme throughout eCoty 2016, but the bolshie wunderkind from M makes it clear from the outset that it won't be pushed around by the big hitters. Its default position is dogged tenacity, a distillation of grip and efficient use of available grunt that remains effective come what may.
When we park up, a slightly fazed Adam Towler steps out of the M4 GTS that the M2 has just kept such close company with. He gets to the point: 'I genuinely thought the GTS wanted to deposit me in the hedge. The combination of wet roads, dry-biased tyres, that chassis with very quick steering, and the huge initial torque delivery of the engine made it almost undriveable at times, and while scary can be fun, this was just too scary.' Given the quasi-race car setup of the GTS, it would be overstating it to call this a bombshell, but it seems that on a far from smooth and evenly cambered road in slippery conditions, the on-paper £76k and 128bhp gap between the M Division's A game and its entry-level representative can be ripped up. Can't say the M2 was fun, much less a finely layered feast for the senses, but driven purely to exploit its seemingly inexhaustible ability to scavenge grip without obviously favouring the purchase of either end, and to mine the last ounce of effort from its brawny but curiously atonal motor, well, it worked a treat."

"A perfect illustration of how big a difference it can make driving a car on domestic roads in Blighty weather is made by the BMW M4 GTS. As you'll see in the final scores, this is a car that widely split opinion. Many of us hadn't driven the car before, but Henry and Dan had both experienced it on smooth and fast Iberian roads that were baked crisp by hot sun. Both came back in love with the car. My first drive in the GTS was along a wet, undulating, twisty, crusty and very challenging B-road. Turning off the traction control would have resulted in disaster and a terribly embarrassing phone call to BMW. The car, so magnificent on dry, smooth roads, was a liability or these ones."

M4 GTS and TopGear:

"And in the wet?
Bloody liability. No rear end traction whatsoever. The tyres don’t help, but the big-torque, rapid delivery engine and low-grip-commitment rear axle are a spiteful pairing. You need to be properly on your game if you’re to disable the stability control, which you sort of need to, because even if placed in M Dynamic mode, it’s a bit too keen to get involved, and it does so rather abruptly. I don’t think I’ve ever driven a car with a bigger discrepancy between dry and wet weather behavior.
Bottom line: it’s nearly the same money as a Porsche GT3 RS. Which would you have?
The Porsche every single time, but you’re talking the wrong rival. If Merc does a Black Series C63 Coupe, or even GT Coupe, that’s where this sits. It’s a burlier car than the Porsche. That’s a surgical instrument, a car for picking apart apexes (apices?), this is more of the just-wanna-have-a-good-time type machine."

[lax01]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

@lax01 ah I see what you mean. Yeah, that is a valid point. But I doubt BMW would put in the effort to create a whole new larger wheel for just ~2,200 units. On the other hand, maybe BMW should and just make it as a M performance wheel option. After all, virtually all components in the CS are available or soon to be available in some form in the M performance catalog (eg. Spoiler, mirror caps, splitter, etc.)

Also, in many EU countries, the M2CS have already been receiving "large" discounts and seem pretty hard to move. Also keep in mind the M2CS price tag is significantly higher in EU countries with additional taxes and fees.

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Lax

You do not have to get Cup 2s, as I think PS4S is the other option and is best suited for most. . . I think it is pretty safe to assume most M2CS buyers are going to spend most of their time on the road and not the track.

///AVM

haha maybe I'm not being clear - I don't understand why they didn't go to a bigger tire - the 763m is wide enough to handle 295s or 305s even

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by lax01

On a CS? Already?

No silly, I guess you don't understand subtext, so let me break it down to you; my own personal car, non-CS or PC2, tires don't last long, so what's the point of bitching about them, they'll be up in smoke and have to be replaced, in no time.

Then you can take your pick of a different model of tire, from there on out..

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by lax01

haha maybe I'm not being clear - I don't understand why they didn't go to a bigger tire - the 763m is wide enough to handle 295s or 305s even

Gotcha

I do not know either . . . but I have a good idea as to why

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by lax01

haha maybe I'm not being clear - I don't understand why they didn't go to a bigger tire - the 763m is wide enough to handle 295s or 305s even

Because you can't comfortably fit 295s, on a M2's body-width, without physically altering the quarter panel or using aftermarket spacers.

Physically enlarging the quarter panel is not possible, at the plant where it was created, due to factory limitations.

Artemis Can you please link the thread/interview where it discussed the limitations of the Leipzig plant, when designing the original M2, I can't seem to find it. Thanx!

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Because you can't comfortably fit 295s, on a M2's body-width, without physically altering the quarter panel or using aftermarket spacers.

Physically enlarging the quarter panel is not possible, at the plant where it was created, due to factory limitations.

Poochie

What about 275 and 285 rear tires, which I assume one, or both is available with PS4S and Cup 2?

///AVM

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Artemis

... You could also see the pace car (skilled driver) slipping out of balance at some point (see 10:07)...

Though they were in MDM, I was surprised when I saw the pace car's back end wiggle, enough that the traction control had to kick-in, especially with the dry track + Cups.

Confirms why I don't mess w/the traction control for street driving where there's just too many unexpected variables that can take me out.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

What about 275 and 285 rear tires, which I assume one, or both is available with PS4S and Cup 2?

///AVM

Sorry, the questions are coming pretty rapidly, hang in there, I'll locate the reason soon.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Anyone that owns a tuned M2C will tell you that it puts out a lot of power for the original chassis and tires. We will see if the CS adaptive is good enough to handle the power. A tuned M2C needs coilovers to handle all that torque.

I have a stock M2C w/MPC. When I goose the gas, I need to make sure the car is pointed straight and that I'm paying attention b/c I can feel all 4 tires break free and loose traction for a few seconds and that's all it takes to be in the trees.