[10"]

The 230i is garbage in general...so it's not surprising it felt poor. The M2 has a good manual; albeit a little crippled with tech like rev matching...

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by rich8566

I'm sticking with manny trannys as long as I have a functioning left leg.

I really hope this guy is still talking about the car... #badvisual

[2+3=5]

Originally Posted by mrs.boost

I'd rather take the bus than drive a DCT. Different strokes...

Lol TTC

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by MPower_FS

Oh yes, the "I won't buy a manual unless it shifts like a S2000" argument.

Give it a rest. You like automatics and that's ok.

A real manual enthusiast will buy a manual even if it's the worst manual on earth.
It's about the sensation of shifting and driving with a third pedal. No DCT or DSG will ever replace that.

Buying my daily driver cars, I always opt for manuals.
Is it as good as the manual on the M2? No, far from it, but it's still a hell of a lot better than a auto.

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested. If a car doesn't offer a manual, I don't buy the car.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested. If a car doesn't offer a manual, I don't buy the car.

It's the reason I didn't get a Mercedes or Audi; no stick, no sale..

What's the point of getting a BMW if it's not for for the manual :

[bobert]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested.

Drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla, then you will know.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

Easy clutch to depress; very little travel (thanks to a couple rubber washers); and fun.

Manual guy all my life but must admit, lately I've been curious bout whether I could live with a dct day in and day out.
I actually test drove a ttrs the other day just because and while the car is an absolute beast (and imo looks pretty sharp in and out) that DSG didn't really satisfy. But to be fair it was a short, somewhat civil drive with sales guy next to me.
I guess I would fall into the 'scared' camp. Scared to take the leap ...only to regret it soon thereafter.

Manual guy all my life too. Switched to DCT. Love it. Would never go back to manual after using the DCT. Not sure we’ll see another DCT M car in the future though as they seem to be going to autos. The trick with the DCT is to have an open mind and realise it will take some time to learn how best to use it. Most people fear change and are impatient as they age. Can’t recommend it more highly.

[RAM_F30_F87]

I agree, this DCT vs. 6-speed conversation is probably a waste of time, but I'll way in.
The 6-speed transmission is great.
If you don't like rowing the gears, or your driving situation doesn't warrant it, then you can choose the DCT.
My own personal choice was to get a manual on every car I've owned since 1981 including the last three 3-series models.

[dubzz24]

My new to me M2 is my 10th M car. All of them have been manuals. I really want to love the DCT / DSG but just can’t. Last year I took a break from BMWs and bought an Audi S5 6spd manual and really enjoyed it, but it was definitely more luxury focused than sport.

Longing for the M-type performance, I ended up selling it and picked up an RS5 (DSG of course). I Really wanted to love that car. On paper it ticked all the right boxes, but it was just missing something. Drove an M2 and M4 DCT and ended up feeling the same way. Something was missing. Then I drove an M2 6spd and instantly fell in love. Now it’s in my garage.

It’s hard to believe that just the transmission can change the driving enjoyment that much, but for me at least, it really does. I enjoyed the S5 more than the RS5 just because of the MT, and I enjoy the M2 more than anything

If you don’t feel the same way just buy a DCT and be happy.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by 10"

The 230i is garbage in general...so it's not surprising it felt poor. The M2 has a good manual; albeit a little crippled with tech like rev matching...

You’re the only one in the world who thinks that, but carry on, “10-inch”

[3Si]

Originally Posted by afwares

Speaking strictly for the US market, the car comes from the factory with a perfectly functional 6-speed transmission at no additional cost, ready to roll. So technically, for all but those who literally don't know how to drive a manual or who are one-legged amputees and don't physically have enough extremities to drive a manual, the $3000 cost to add the DCT could be considered completely superfluous, as unnecessary for some people as having a set of Tiffany chandeliers bolted to the front fenders. Nice to have, but not at all required. So rather than over-think it, and make it about labels and fears and stigmas, or even enthusiasm for driving, we could just keep it simple...plenty of buyers would rather have the $3K stay in their pocket than have a set of Tiffany chandeliers bolted to the front fenders. And if that 6MT adds a little fun on top of the 3K savings, that's just icing on the cake.

How can you make such an analogy while driving a BMW... and an M2 on top of that.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by 3Si

How can you make such an analogy while driving a BMW... and an M2 on top of that.

I don't hear Snake Plissken complaining...

[dcmac]

Test drive both M2’s, found DCT version efficient but ultimately a bit boring and unengaging. Manual was a lot more fun, so I bought it.

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested. If a car doesn't offer a manual, I don't buy the car.

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested. If a car doesn't offer a manual, I don't buy the car.

I wouldn't go that far, the first manual i ever drove was one I used to take drive license in taiwan, it's a local licensed copy of Nissan from the 80s on 1.2 liter engine with 4 speed manual (doesn't even have a speedometer only a tachometer). That car had the definition of I can't really tell which gear I'm in, upside is super light clutch with the tiny engine.

Though to be fair that thing was probably driven by over 1000 people,and all of them were learning how to drive for the first time..., and it didn't enter the facility new either probably was a taxi in previous life before it take some more beating

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously - I don't even know what a bad manual is. If a car offers a manual, i'm interested. If a car doesn't offer a manual, I don't buy the car.

Maybe you have been lucky to avoid bad manuals or just young because in general they are miles better than they were in the 80’s and 90’s. I’ve been through my fair share in Mustangs, DSM’s, SRT’s etc with poor manual transmissions and IMO nothing ruins a good car more than a bad manual transmission.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Maybe you have been lucky to avoid bad manuals or just young because in general they are miles better than they were in the 80's and 90's. I've been through my fair share in Mustangs, DSM's, SRT's etc with poor manual transmissions and IMO nothing ruins a good car more than a bad manual transmission.

Nah - I'm pretty old. My point was akin to saying any third pedal is better than a car with two pedals. Even the worst manual transmission for sheer engagement is more fun for me. I get why everyone wouldn't feel this way though.

[izzyM2]

My answer for the need to shift was to get a Manual Miata a long with my M2 DCT. Problem solved!

[tranck]

Originally Posted by izzyM2

My answer for the need to shift was to get a Manual Miata a long with my M2 DCT. Problem solved!

What the hell color is that M2?

[qnet]

My KIA Soul is a manual, and I can't say that it adds to the experience of driving it.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by qnet

My KIA Soul is a manual, and I can't say that it adds to the experience of driving it.

Heathen! That is a pure blood sport car u hav there !!!111oneone

[D22M2]

I’d take a BMW DCT over mediocre BMW manual transmission any day - guess I’m spoiled by the manual transmission on my Honda Accord, s2000 and Z06 over the last 25 +years

[chris719]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I get so tired of people expecting every manual transmission to be as good as the S2000 transmission. It's easy to make a butter smooth transmission for an engine making only 163 lb-ft of torque. Miata's also have great manual transmissions but once again not a lot of torque to deal with.

The manual transmissions in the E46 mostly sucked and they didn't really have that much torque to deal with either. Porsche has good shift quality on 911 Turbos so I do think BMW's feel is by (poor) design. It's still better than the VW / Audi products I have driven which feel like they are not connected to anything.

I'd still get the manual in the M2 though. I wish we could find a cause / fix for the throttle delay after shifting though.