[TMR013]

IMO

So had an unfortunate encounter with a wheel weight that trashed my left rear tire. And the dealer had to order replacements, so in the meantime, had a 230i 6 speed loaner for a couple days.

Didn't mind, thought it would be fun to row the gears again for a while. My last manual was a S2000 9 years ago. The base 2 Series, is not a bad little car, peppy, light, and throwable. But I hope the M2 has a different manual. The 230 6 speed was awful. Clutch play felt like it was a mile, and a swear it took at least 30 lbs of pressure to depress. Gear selection was imprecise, throws were long and again felt I had to apply greater pressure just to move the stick than I should have had to. Found it was hard to hit the gear I wanted all the time. Drove on both open roads and traffic, traffic was brutal. My leg got too tired just working the clutch.

I'm assuming the M2 6 speed is a different tranny, so may not be a good comparison. Also know that the S2000 tranny was one of the best ever made, so again, could be clouding my judgement. But when I compare this experience to my DCT; fast, super precise, to me it enhances the driving experience on a challenging road, not detracts. Plus I get the tremendous benefit of easy use in traffic.

So go ahead; I'm not a "real" enthusiast, traitor, too old (have to admit this last one may be the case). But I really wonder if the die hard 6 speeders are just afraid to really give the DCT a chance for fear of being labeled. Like I'm sure I'm about to be.

[DanG]

Haven’t driven a 6 speed M2, but my DCT is the first M car I have had without a 6 speed. Once the DCT had better acceleration and better gas mileage, I couldn’t see buying another 6 speed. I definitely made the right decision given Seattle traffic.

My last M car was an E46 M3 6 speed.

[akkando]

I'm just going to leave this here....

[bi0hazard]

What's the point of this thread? OP likes an automatic trans, and doesn't like a manual gearbox in an unrelated vehicle. Am I missing something here?

[D22M2]

If The M2 manual clutch was anything like the S2000 I’d be driving a manual transmission M2 right now.

DCT + beefed up N55 is a perfect mashup imo

[Poochie]

The the manual transmission is not that bad in all BMWs; from the Mini to the standard BMWs.. If it wasn't, there would be a lot more complaints, like this, by now.. Trust me, people love to nitpick..

Maybe the OP just doesn't like driving a manual? There are a lot of them out there, hence the reason BMW is gradually phasing them out..

And the manual for the 230i and M2 is different part numbers, I'm not sure how they differ but I believe they are now both made by ZF. So how much different can they be?

[heavyD^2]

I get so tired of people expecting every manual transmission to be as good as the S2000 transmission. It's easy to make a butter smooth transmission for an engine making only 163 lb-ft of torque. Miata's also have great manual transmissions but once again not a lot of torque to deal with.

[jason86]

I drove my buddy's S2000 AP2 thousands of time, and currently I am owning the 6MT LCI M2.
But I feel smoother on the M2 when changing gears, and the clutch pedal is so much easier to depress than the AP2 as well. Only thing I like on the AP2 is just the short shift throw travelling and that's it.

[kpaso]

M2 clutch is very easy to push, no worries there. But there is a ridiculous amount of travel and the engagement point is frustrating. The shifter is lifeless and disconnected, but very easy to use.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by TMR013

But I really wonder if the die hard 6 speeders are just afraid to really give the DCT a chance for fear of being labeled. Like I'm sure I'm about to be.

Speaking strictly for the US market, the car comes from the factory with a perfectly functional 6-speed transmission at no additional cost, ready to roll. So technically, for all but those who literally don't know how to drive a manual or who are one-legged amputees and don't physically have enough extremities to drive a manual, the $3000 cost to add the DCT could be considered completely superfluous, as unnecessary for some people as having a set of Tiffany chandeliers bolted to the front fenders. Nice to have, but not at all required. So rather than over-think it, and make it about labels and fears and stigmas, or even enthusiasm for driving, we could just keep it simple...plenty of buyers would rather have the $3K stay in their pocket than have a set of Tiffany chandeliers bolted to the front fenders. And if that 6MT adds a little fun on top of the 3K savings, that's just icing on the cake.

[No Boost]

The 6MT/clutch is more than adequate in this car. Manual and the M2 go together like beer and pizza.

[rich8566]

Yeah, I'm a die hard manual guy. Yeah, I've owned a few auto slush boxes over the years. Yeah, I'm afraid I might actually like a DCT. Nah, don't really want to "waste " $3 grand on a DCT. Nah, the clutch ain't heavy. In any event, I'm sticking with manny trannys as long as I have a functioning left leg.

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by TMR013

Yet another DCT vs 6 speed thread

Translation: Yet another pointless thread

[Dabozo]

Easy clutch to depress; very little travel (thanks to a couple rubber washers); and fun.

Manual guy all my life but must admit, lately I've been curious bout whether I could live with a dct day in and day out.
I actually test drove a ttrs the other day just because and while the car is an absolute beast (and imo looks pretty sharp in and out) that DSG didn't really satisfy. But to be fair it was a short, somewhat civil drive with sales guy next to me.
I guess I would fall into the 'scared' camp. Scared to take the leap ...only to regret it soon thereafter.

[eatingpizzainthef87rules]

Sounds like OP got to be an old man and forgot how to party 9 years after the s2000

[OG///M]

Oh yes, the "I won't buy a manual unless it shifts like a S2000" argument.

Give it a rest. You like automatics and that's ok.

A real manual enthusiast will buy a manual even if it's the worst manual on earth.
It's about the sensation of shifting and driving with a third pedal. No DCT or DSG will ever replace that.

Buying my daily driver cars, I always opt for manuals.
Is it as good as the manual on the M2? No, far from it, but it's still a hell of a lot better than a auto.

[NYC Bimmer]

Originally Posted by MPower_FS

A real manual enthusiast will buy a manual even if it's the worst manual on earth.
It's about the sensation of shifting and driving with a third pedal. No DCT or DSG will ever replace that.

/thread

[XutvJet]

The 230 uses a Getrag 6mt. The M235, M240, M2, M3, and M4 use a much beefier ZF 6mt. The clutch pedal travel, catch point, pedal resting position 1/2" above brake pedal, light weight, and feel (total lack) are terrible in the ZF. The stock shifter is pretty rubbery too. Luckily both these problems are addressed with the Ultimate Clutch Pedal and the M Performance shift knob. HUGE difference and improvement.

If I was competively racing these cars or had a bum left leg, I'd get an auto because they're better performing. Otherwise, 6mt all freaking day. Take note of how people with autos in late model BMWs say they wish they got the 6mt after the automatic honeymoon was over but you never read about a 6mt owner wishing they got the auto.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by kpaso

MBut there is a ridiculous amount of travel and the engagement point is frustrating.

UCP clutch pedal resolves this situation...big fan!

[grl.racr]

I’d rather take the bus than drive a DCT. Different strokes...

[kpaso]

Originally Posted by Franzino

UCP clutch pedal resolves this situation...big fan!

Mine is sitting in my garage waiting for me to install it!

[JustinHEMI]

The beauty of this discussion is that we have the choice and the right to make the choice that's correct for ourselves.

Drive on!