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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      11-14-2018, 11:10 AM   #111
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I really hope these tests include enough runs for statistical significance and will replicate actual conditions end-users will experience on the street and track. If a test isn't relatable to actual use cases, then it's pretty meaningless (other than for marketing purposes, which isn't to the end-users' benefit).

Importantly for the track will be how do the reduced IATs translate to speed, which is the ultimate metric being chased.

Sourcing would ideally be from a blind retail channel.
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      11-14-2018, 11:24 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
I really hope these tests include enough runs for statistical significance and will replicate actual conditions end-users will experience on the street and track. If a test isn't relatable to actual use cases, then it's pretty meaningless (other than for marketing purposes, which isn't to the end-users' benefit).

Importantly for the track will be how do the reduced IATs translate to speed, which is the ultimate metric being chased.

Sourcing would ideally be from a blind retail channel.
We have to crawl before we can walk

As of right now this is as close as we've come to any comparison between brands. If we can keep up the momentum and add a couple more brands to the list we'll have a better foundation to build and improve on.
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      11-14-2018, 11:45 AM   #113
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So, are you guys done looking for testers? And why is only VRSF actively looking for participants here and on social media but not CSF (IG stories don't count)?

I hope multiple cars are going to be dyno'd with different ICs on the same dyno on the same day. For example, 1 car can start with VRSF on the dyno then hop off to swap to CSF IC while another car starts on the dyno with CSF -- rinse and repeat. That way, you minimize down time between dyno sessions and temperature variance, while providing near identical conditions to both manufacturers.
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      11-14-2018, 10:45 PM   #114
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I would like to see some track data too, imo (with all due respect to both vendors) a super thick core that doesn't flow well is meaningless to me as it'll be restricting for the radiator behind it and result in limp modes, which m2 track guys see all too often imo.

Track data also means I want to see oil temps, water temps not just iat alone.

Good luck to both vendors, I'm curious to see some results.
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      11-15-2018, 01:19 AM   #115
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use two stock m2 with just the coolers changed and do a couple canyon rips and see which cooler provides the best all round result. (probably the more stock the car is the more accurate the results will be)

It would also be interesting to put the car on the scale and see which one shifts the weight more towards the front, quite relevant for track guys.
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      11-15-2018, 03:23 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristosD View Post
use two stock m2 with just the coolers changed and do a couple canyon rips and see which cooler provides the best all round result. (probably the more stock the car is the more accurate the results will be)

It would also be interesting to put the car on the scale and see which one shifts the weight more towards the front, quite relevant for track guys.
The canyon runs would have to be back to back one car trailing the other, but I don't think you can push the car to it's limit on a public road. It's better to take it to a track, high and low speed (time attack style and auto cross). High speed to see if it can keep temps down underload on and off the gas in high and low speed corners, low speed auto x to test if it'll heat soak and if it does how fast it can drop those temps when air flow returns.

Weight balance would be nice to see (probably would be way to time consuming and not as necessary as performance), but id weight the intercoolers on it's own, as the mass is so small compared to the car it shouldn't tip the mass to the front that much more if the delta between the two coolers isn't significant.
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      11-15-2018, 05:21 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
We have to crawl before we can walk

As of right now this is as close as we've come to any comparison between brands. If we can keep up the momentum and add a couple more brands to the list we'll have a better foundation to build and improve on.
Of course we will appreciate whatever comes of this. As others have said however, testing different scenarios would make for a great comparo and be of even more benefit for the community.

For example, logging the results of multiple 2-5 gear pulls in succession could add another dimension to the simulation, testing for potential temperature inertia.
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      11-15-2018, 09:22 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristosD View Post

It would also be interesting to put the car on the scale and see which one shifts the weight more towards the front, quite relevant for track guys.
You wouldn't need to put the cars on a scale for this.

You would just need to weigh each intercooler. You can do the rest of the math in your head to figure out which one would shift more weight towards the front.
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      11-15-2018, 01:51 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
You wouldn't need to put the cars on a scale for this.

You would just need to weigh each intercooler. You can do the rest of the math in your head to figure out which one would shift more weight towards the front.
+1 especially since it's before the front axle.
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      11-15-2018, 06:08 PM   #120
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Donations should go to animal shelters around the Malibu area or to people who need it due to the fires.
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      11-15-2018, 07:20 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by 963mw View Post
Donations should go to animal shelters around the Malibu area or to people who need it due to the fires.
+1

Edit- I forgot that there was a donation involved in this comparison. But yeah those people down in Cali affect by the fires definitely could use the support.

Last edited by F87source; 11-15-2018 at 07:48 PM..
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      11-16-2018, 11:33 PM   #122
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So is the ER premium over the 5" VRSF worth it for primarily street application with a stage 2 BM3 tune?
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      11-17-2018, 09:26 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magha View Post
So is the ER premium over the 5" VRSF worth it for primarily street application with a stage 2 BM3 tune?
ER intercooler should be compared to VRSF Race since they are of similar size.

I would go with VRSF race
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      11-17-2018, 01:52 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
ER intercooler should be compared to VRSF Race since they are of similar size.

I would go with VRSF race
thanks Mike! between the 5" and 6" is there a noticeable difference? i will track but perhaps a few times a year but do want to run the BM3 stage 2 tune along with a CP & DP.
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      11-17-2018, 03:28 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magha View Post
thanks Mike! between the 5" and 6" is there a noticeable difference? i will track but perhaps a few times a year but do want to run the BM3 stage 2 tune along with a CP & DP.
Assuming everything else is identical , 6" will easily outperform the 5"
I recommend it for any stage 2 setup
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      11-18-2018, 12:11 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Assuming everything else is identical , 6" will easily outperform the 5"
I recommend it for any stage 2 setup
great thanks for the advice!
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      11-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #127
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Quote:
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great thanks for the advice!
My pleasure
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      11-22-2018, 01:57 PM   #128
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Just a quick noob question about "pressure drop": is this the difference between the input and output pressures of the FMIC?

In other words, if the turbo is producing X psi and the throttle body is seeing Y psi,
is the FMIC's "pressure drop" simply X - Y?

Thanks!
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      11-22-2018, 04:17 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
I really hope these tests include enough runs for statistical significance and will replicate actual conditions end-users will experience on the street and track. If a test isn't relatable to actual use cases, then it's pretty meaningless (other than for marketing purposes, which isn't to the end-users' benefit).

Importantly for the track will be how do the reduced IATs translate to speed, which is the ultimate metric being chased.

Sourcing would ideally be from a blind retail channel.
We have to crawl before we can walk

As of right now this is as close as we've come to any comparison between brands. If we can keep up the momentum and add a couple more brands to the list we'll have a better foundation to build and improve on.
@Tiago@VRSF If you're looking for a tester still let me know. This thread is exactly what the people need to see when making a decision on their intercooler. Been wanting to better understand the better product between CSF and VRSF race intercooler. I'm running a BMS Intake, FI Exhaust, VRSF catless downpipe and on BM3 stage1 ready to move to stage 2. Let me know if you still need testers!
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      11-24-2018, 06:16 AM   #130
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Great thread and love seeing the vendors willing to do a comparison and donate to charity.

I'd like to see data between the stock intercooler and aftermarket plug and play (no mods needed to the car to install) intercooler on the stock turbo.

Cheers,
Chris
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      11-24-2018, 06:14 PM   #131
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Anyway the testing will be done before black friday sales are over? LOL
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      11-24-2018, 11:49 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosozoku View Post
Just a quick noob question about "pressure drop": is this the difference between the input and output pressures of the FMIC?

In other words, if the turbo is producing X psi and the throttle body is seeing Y psi,
is the FMIC's "pressure drop" simply X - Y?

Thanks!
Well, yea, but I don't think that's an issue. I think the car would just let more boost in to make up for it.

If you bring this up because of turbo lag due to a larger intercooler, it isn't pressure drop that causes that. It's that the larger intercooler takes longer to fill before passing the air to the engine.
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