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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      04-02-2020, 06:28 AM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
In before someone accuses me of being connected to a competitor. Installed VRSF decat last week, and a photo of right now with VRSF charge pipes on my makeshift home office waiting for an intercooler that fits my car

I've already got threadlock on the methanol ports to seal them up lol
Looks great. There is no brace like on the stock converter?
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      04-02-2020, 06:54 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
In before someone accuses me of being connected to a competitor. Installed VRSF decat last week, and a photo of right now with VRSF charge pipes on my makeshift home office waiting for an intercooler that fits my car

I've already got threadlock on the methanol ports to seal them up lol
Looks great. There is no brace like on the stock converter?
Yeah. I can never recommend VRSF's downpipe a because of the omitted brace. There's a reason BMW designed a bracket to be used. Every other company integrates a bracket except VRSF and it can't be good in the long term to have that much jostling
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      04-02-2020, 07:43 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Yeah. I can never recommend VRSF's downpipe a because of the omitted brace. There's a reason BMW designed a bracket to be used. Every other company integrates a bracket except VRSF and it can't be good in the long term to have that much jostling
It just seemed odd to me. I'm not in the market though, as I have a sport cat.

Last edited by cecaa850; 04-02-2020 at 09:57 AM..
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      04-02-2020, 03:26 PM   #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
Hi Tiago,

Lesly has told me separate to this thread that the 5" will fit fine, the 6.5" will need the spacers, I asked if the spacers are included with the 6.5" intercooler? and the reply I got was "spacers are included but they arent' necessary"

I just keep getting more and more confused with different information coming all the time, half of the issue is people and distributors getting confused between the 5" and 6.5" comp and 6.5" race.

For the 6.5" Comp intercooler, can you answer the below questions I have, You can PM me if it's more appropriate but it looks like others have the same questions I do:
- Are the spacers included in the kit?
- Are the spacers for unbolting the brace and reinstalling the brace with the spacers in place to purely bring the brace towards the front of the car to give enough clearance so the intercooler doesn't hit anything?
- For install, this requires a full front bar off job, it won't slide up from the bottom like I guess the 5" one would?
- Are there instructions?
- What comes in the box?
- You mentioned the stock cooling fan shroud issues has been rectified, do the spacers throw this out at all?
- What is the 5" rated to (hp/kw)
- How far away is the M2 specific product?
- Will the M2 product fit from the bottom or still require front bar off? If it still needs a front bar removal?

I know I might sound like I'm a pedantic prick, but all I'm trying to do is throw money at your company to get more power out of my car, and i'm really struggling to justify giving my money for a product with minimal and incorrect information. I just want to install an intercooler that will at least do Stage 2 with a possibility of stage 3 in the future, and fit my other bolt on bits that I already have (VRSF catless downpipe and VRSF charge pipe).

I mean this in the most constructive way possible, but the misleading info on your website doesn't help.
Why can't there be 2 separate pages for the two different products with the different applications?
If the dimensions, weight, part numbers, photos, vehicle applications are different between the two, they should be two different product pages.

The amount of confusion having one product page for two different products is amazing, even your distributors get confused like the conversation on Facebook I've posted below. If your distributors get confused, how are the rest of us meant to buy the right product?

I do get that other guys frustration, yes he's finding every opportunity to bag out VRSF intercoolers, but VRSF is just making it way to easy for people to bag out the intercoolers right now. I still want a VRSF intercooler, I just need some basic honest information which a product page should have.
It seems there's a bit of confusion in regards to which spacers both you and Leslie were referencing. Our intercooler's all include two spacers that aren't necessary for installation but are extra pieces in the kit.

If you want to install the 6.5" on the M2 you'll have to use spacers for the brace, not for the intercooler core. Unfortunately the 6.5" will not fit the M2 without modifying the brace whereas the 5" will fit without issue.
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      04-08-2020, 01:16 AM   #555
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I went VRSF 6.5" in the end. Had it installed and it did fit in the spot without taking the front bar off but it was heavily pushing on the front support brace, so had to take the front brace off, front bar etc... put spacers on the brace to move it forward about 20mm and it's sitting fine. Also did BM3 stage 2 OTS at the same time
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      04-08-2020, 11:05 AM   #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
I went VRSF 6.5" in the end. Had it installed and it did fit in the spot without taking the front bar off but it was heavily pushing on the front support brace, so had to take the front brace off, front bar etc... put spacers on the brace to move it forward about 20mm and it's sitting fine. Also did BM3 stage 2 OTS at the same time
Congrats
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      04-08-2020, 02:41 PM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
I went VRSF 6.5" in the end. Had it installed and it did fit in the spot without taking the front bar off but it was heavily pushing on the front support brace, so had to take the front brace off, front bar etc... put spacers on the brace to move it forward about 20mm and it's sitting fine. Also did BM3 stage 2 OTS at the same time
Any photos? Driving impressions? Logs?!
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      04-08-2020, 06:22 PM   #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Any photos? Driving impressions? Logs?!
It's the way the M2 should have come from factory really. No logs as I don't have a cable yet (ordered it this morning so should et it after Easter).

No noticeable turbo lag with the intercooler.

VRSF still need to put out more accurate info about their product and vehicle application, I'm still annoyed at how long it took to get some basic info and most of my questions weren't answered by VRSF. That brand could be doing so much more if they look at their business from the customer's perspective.
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      04-08-2020, 10:35 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Any photos? Driving impressions? Logs?!
It's the way the M2 should have come from factory really. No logs as I don't have a cable yet (ordered it this morning so should et it after Easter).

No noticeable turbo lag with the intercooler.

VRSF still need to put out more accurate info about their product and vehicle application, I'm still annoyed at how long it took to get some basic info and most of my questions weren't answered by VRSF. That brand could be doing so much more if they look at their business from the customer's perspective.
They don't even publish pressure drop data lol
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      04-14-2020, 09:39 PM   #560
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Went through this entire thread and other than Mikes super helpful data I lost brain cells. VRSF and CSF never happened, CSF got banned for some reason....anybody know why?

FWIW I picked up a Wagner EVO II Preformace Intercooler for my FBO M235i, stock vs the Wagner was a world of difference. IAT's dropped during 3ed gear pulls and stayed extremely low through out an entire 2 to 6th pull with minimum IAT increase. Throttle response became better as well. car is MHD Stage 2+.
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      04-14-2020, 11:58 PM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_otherM235i View Post
Went through this entire thread and other than Mikes super helpful data I lost brain cells. VRSF and CSF never happened, CSF got banned for some reason....anybody know why?

FWIW I picked up a Wagner EVO II Preformace Intercooler for my FBO M235i, stock vs the Wagner was a world of difference. IAT's dropped during 3ed gear pulls and stayed extremely low through out an entire 2 to 6th pull with minimum IAT increase. Throttle response became better as well. car is MHD Stage 2+.
Sometimes vendors show up as banned due to inactivity from not paying the vendor fees. Probably that.
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      04-15-2020, 11:00 AM   #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_otherM235i View Post
Went through this entire thread and other than Mikes super helpful data I lost brain cells. VRSF and CSF never happened, CSF got banned for some reason....anybody know why?

FWIW I picked up a Wagner EVO II Preformace Intercooler for my FBO M235i, stock vs the Wagner was a world of difference. IAT's dropped during 3ed gear pulls and stayed extremely low through out an entire 2 to 6th pull with minimum IAT increase. Throttle response became better as well. car is MHD Stage 2+.
Very interesting thread

I run a Wagner Evo 2 comp + 300 cell dp for 2 years already. Just a few days ago I got bootmod3 license and did some logs to check the latest mods on cooling I did (water cooler, oil cooler). I noticed a quite high increase in IAT in both runs, first run from 78 to 108, which is 38 %, ambient temp was about 38F. So many guys report a slight increase in IAT using aftermarket ICs, I wonder if my one fails in some way. The car is only used on track, I wonder what it will show during a 1 hour session.

Many thanks for your comments.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e91...729b5ecc22119f
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      04-15-2020, 11:03 AM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_VIE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_otherM235i View Post
Went through this entire thread and other than Mikes super helpful data I lost brain cells. VRSF and CSF never happened, CSF got banned for some reason....anybody know why?

FWIW I picked up a Wagner EVO II Preformace Intercooler for my FBO M235i, stock vs the Wagner was a world of difference. IAT's dropped during 3ed gear pulls and stayed extremely low through out an entire 2 to 6th pull with minimum IAT increase. Throttle response became better as well. car is MHD Stage 2+.
Very interesting thread

I run a Wagner Evo 2 comp + 300 cell dp for 2 years already. Just a few days ago I got bootmod3 license and did some logs to check the latest mods on cooling I did (water cooler, oil cooler). I noticed a quite high increase in IAT in both runs, first run from 78 to 108, which is 38 %, ambient temp was about 38F. So many guys report a slight increase in IAT using aftermarket ICs, I wonder if my one fails in some way. The car is only used on track, I wonder what it will show during a 1 hour session.

Many thanks for your comments.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e91...729b5ecc22119f
Yeah i kid you not, iats went from 10c to 13c on a 2ed go 6th gear pull. Ambient temps were 10c.
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      04-15-2020, 12:55 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_VIE View Post
Very interesting thread

I run a Wagner Evo 2 comp + 300 cell dp for 2 years already. Just a few days ago I got bootmod3 license and did some logs to check the latest mods on cooling I did (water cooler, oil cooler). I noticed a quite high increase in IAT in both runs, first run from 78 to 108, which is 38 %, ambient temp was about 38F. So many guys report a slight increase in IAT using aftermarket ICs, I wonder if my one fails in some way. The car is only used on track, I wonder what it will show during a 1 hour session.

Many thanks for your comments.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e91...729b5ecc22119f
Sorry, but itís too small for serious track duty. A bigger core like the VRSF or Evo 3 would be ideal
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      04-16-2020, 12:56 PM   #565
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Was eyeballing the Wagner Evo3...it hands down looks the business....but it will essentially require removing the entire front end brace..or chopping it up. I'm not even sure if companies did their due diligence when it comes to that. But at the same time we have the only N55 that runs the same brace in place as the M2c/3/4.

I'm almost certain it can't be safe not running that extra reinforcement there.

I'm at a toss up between the Comp2 vs Comp3
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      04-16-2020, 01:10 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
Was eyeballing the Wagner Evo3...it hands down looks the business....but it will essentially require removing the entire front end brace..or chopping it up. I'm not even sure if companies did their due diligence when it comes to that. But at the same time we have the only N55 that runs the same brace in place as the M2c/3/4.

I'm almost certain it can't be safe not running that extra reinforcement there.

I'm at a toss up between the Comp2 vs Comp3
If itís for track duty, the Evo 3 or the VRSF at the best options, because they are the biggest. I donít know what specific brace youíre speaking about, but if itís a chassis brace, youíll be ok.
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      04-16-2020, 03:46 PM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
If itís for track duty, the Evo 3 or the VRSF at the best options, because they are the biggest. I donít know what specific brace youíre speaking about, but if itís a chassis brace, youíll be ok.
Not the chassis brace...but the structural brace in front of the radiator. The top portion can be seen through the grill(perhaps it is called a chassis brace??). Mishimoto would require us M2 folk to hack that up. Plastic is one thing, but that....
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      04-16-2020, 04:14 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
Not the chassis brace...but the structural brace in front of the radiator. The top portion can be seen through the grill(perhaps it is called a chassis brace??). Mishimoto would require us M2 folk to hack that up. Plastic is one thing, but that....
The black thin brace that has to be removed, spaced, or cut with any large IC for the M2?

If thatís the only issue, Evo 3 it is. No one has been able to confirm this for the M2, yet.
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      04-16-2020, 04:37 PM   #569
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
The black thin brace that has to be removed, spaced, or cut with any large IC for the M2?

If thatís the only issue, Evo 3 it is. No one has been able to confirm this for the M2, yet.
Tub and fin are not as good at cooling as bar and plate.
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      04-16-2020, 04:58 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Tub and fin are not as good at cooling as bar and plate.
Not this again. Way too many variables to make a blanket statement like that.

If both types are sized appropriately for a specific use, it takes longer for bar & plate to heat up and cool down than tube & fin. That’s good for highway passes and drag racing, not constant circuit racing.

That said, Evo2 needs to be bigger if you’re running a Stg 2 tuned car hard on track in the middle of summer, and is why some of the larger and heavier bar & plates can perform a little better.

But in general tube & fin is lighter and cools off quicker than bar & plate between corners. So, if the Evo3 is large enough, it’ll perform better than bar & plate on a circuit track.

Last edited by ZM2; 04-16-2020 at 05:33 PM..
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      04-17-2020, 12:11 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Not this again. Way too many variables to make a blanket statement like that.

If both types are sized appropriately for a specific use, it takes longer for bar & plate to heat up and cool down than tube & fin. Thatís good for highway passes and drag racing, not constant circuit racing.

That said, Evo2 needs to be bigger if youíre running a tuned car in the middle of summer, and is why some of the larger and heavier bar & plates can perform a little better.

But in general tube & fin is lighter and cools off quicker than bar & plate between corners. So, if the Evo3 is large enough, itíll perform better than bar & plate on a circuit track.

No, apparently the inherent design of a bar and plate means that it has less thermal capacity.



http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...p-intercooler/

Quote:

A key advantage of bar and plate is its extraordinary variety of fin designs on both sides of the cooler. Further, the height of the passages can be changed by using taller bars and fins, which dramatically expands the possibilities for the intercooler designer. A 3.5-inch thick core gets a 3.5-inch row of fins, not the 2.87 inches found in tube-and-fin designs.
Quote:
Bar And Plate
Wang had a more upbeat tone when it came to bar-and-plate construction. "Spearco pioneered bar-and-plate core design. True, the bar-and-plate design is a bit heavier than tube and fin, but this is actually advantageous.
"The core acts as a heat sink. Its ability to soak up more heat is especially useful in stop-and-go traffic. It keeps the charge relatively cool, then is able to dissipate the heat once the vehicle is in motion. Tube-and-fin units can't pull this off.

Last edited by AmuroRay; 04-17-2020 at 12:18 AM..
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      04-17-2020, 03:55 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
The black thin brace that has to be removed, spaced, or cut with any large IC for the M2?

If thatís the only issue, Evo 3 it is. No one has been able to confirm this for the M2, yet.
For the Wagner IC Evo 3 you need to cut the brace, see enclosed pdf. For this reason I can not use this IC, as my car has the oil cooler in that place
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