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      06-13-2016, 02:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Nine Lives View Post
If it's this thread you're on about then it doesn't address my question;that is taking the HK to the level as that found higher up in the BMW range ie full L7 functionality with OEM parts.

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1251916
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Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
You're not going to be able to do it, because the HK system is designed to work holistically with the physical factory speaker setup. The higher-end setup, such as you'd see in the E90/F30, involved complicated tuning work which was never done for the 2 series configuration.
I'll look into it more when I take delivery next month and have got more time and will report back if anything materialises
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      06-13-2016, 04:36 AM   #24
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Don't expect any miracle changes to the HK sound system it is crap its not worth the money it should be classified as standard audio, There is a really big disappointment regarding the HK system all around the globe when it comes to the 2 series. And BMW hasn't responded to the complaints at all. I know some people have gotten some money back for the HK system but probably only those who were told they were getting the logic 7 system and got this one. You can call it entry car or whatever but not investing some research money on developing a better sound system then the previous gen car is just stupid. Its like they have a gigantic storehouse of the HK sound system lying around and won't do anything until the storehouse is empty. Hope they fired who ever was in charge of developing the audio system for the car.
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      06-14-2016, 11:51 AM   #25
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As noted by zenmaster , please refer to this subforum on the 2Addicts forum for detailed information on the HK stereo in 2 Series cars, including the M2.

To repeat:
- The HK system in the M2 is exactly the same as in any 2 Series.
- The HK system in the 2 Series/M2 is NOT a Logic7-based system, which is used in BMWs from the 3 Series upward. It is totally analog.
- The HK system in the 2 Series/M2 was designed to meet a price point that is substantially lower than other BMW models.
- The HK system in the 2 Series/M2 is tuned to maximize the sound of low-bitrate digital music (at the expense of higher bitrates), minimize the system's sonic deficiencies, and mask potential adverse effects of the underpowered amplifier.
- When BMW released the 2 Series in 2014, a class-action complaint was filed against BMW for misrepresenting the 2 Series HK stereo in ordering materials. BMW settled by refunding roughly half the cost of the option to purchasers, but did not reduce the cost of the option or upgrade the system in any way. This is evidence that BMW never planned (or couldn't plan) to improve the HK system in 2 Series cars before at least LCI in 2018, probably because of hardware commitments to HK and other third-party manufacturers.

To that I'll add this: yes, the radio in the 2 Series/M2 is horrible. There are threads on that in the subforum above as well.
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      06-15-2016, 09:31 AM   #26
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So, what is the general opinion of how the H/K system compares to the HiFi-system?
I have opted for the H/K but now I am not sure it is worth the money over the HiFi-system that is standard equipment.

Br
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      06-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by F1zbo View Post
So, what is the general opinion of how the H/K system compares to the HiFi-system?
I have opted for the H/K but now I am not sure it is worth the money over the HiFi-system that is standard equipment.

Br
It's marginally better but not worth it. The only real advantages you get are component drivers (separate woofers and tweeters) instead of full-range drivers and a max of 10 WPC more power, depending on the channel (and that's still up for debate). You can upgrade the Hi-Fi system for about 40 percent of the cost of the HK option and have a better-sounding system than both.

Consider yourself lucky to have a choice in the EU! In the U.S., it's HK and nothing else on the M2.
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      06-18-2016, 06:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
It's marginally better but not worth it. The only real advantages you get are component drivers (separate woofers and tweeters) instead of full-range drivers and a max of 10 WPC more power, depending on the channel (and that's still up for debate). You can upgrade the Hi-Fi system for about 40 percent of the cost of the HK option and have a better-sounding system than both.

Consider yourself lucky to have a choice in the EU! In the U.S., it's HK and nothing else on the M2.
Can you also upgrade the crappy HK audio system to something better?
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      06-18-2016, 10:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Franzino View Post
Can you also upgrade the crappy HK audio system to something better?
not through BMW as an option. You can upgrade but you have to do it yourself or through a stereo shop.
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      06-20-2016, 04:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
It's marginally better but not worth it. The only real advantages you get are component drivers (separate woofers and tweeters) instead of full-range drivers and a max of 10 WPC more power, depending on the channel (and that's still up for debate). You can upgrade the Hi-Fi system for about 40 percent of the cost of the HK option and have a better-sounding system than both.

Consider yourself lucky to have a choice in the EU! In the U.S., it's HK and nothing else on the M2.

Thanks for your reply.
It is hard to quantify of course what "marginally" better is but the cost for the H/K upgrade over here is somewhere in the range of USD700.
Not sure if we have the same upgrade kits available over here. Also I am not interested in upgrading any stereo equipment after I have taken delivery of the car.

I guess I need to go and listen to a 2-series with the H/K option and one with the HiFi-option in order to really make an informed decision.

Br
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      06-20-2016, 04:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by F1zbo View Post
Thanks for your reply.
It is hard to quantify of course what "marginally" better is but the cost for the H/K upgrade over here is somewhere in the range of USD700.
Not sure if we have the same upgrade kits available over here. Also I am not interested in upgrading any stereo equipment after I have taken delivery of the car.

I guess I need to go and listen to a 2-series with the H/K option and one with the HiFi-option in order to really make an informed decision.

Br
Yes, 'quality' can be a subjective judgment. But there is not $700 (or $900ish, which is the option price of it in the U.S. on 2 Series cars other than the M2) worth of better componentry in the HK system, and there are numerous 2Addicts members who have upgraded the Hi-Fi system to sound significantly better than the HK system for less money than that. How do we know? We've listened to both, side by side.

Add to that growing evidence of a potential intermittent sub-failure issue on the 2 Series HK -- and not the Hi-Fi -- and well ... the consensus is that the Hi-Fi option is a better platform to upgrade than the HK.

The biggest weakness of both systems isn't the hardware at all -- it's the built-in DSP curve. It cuts lows and highs and slightly boosts mids, something that you can't flatten or eliminate unless you do one of three things:
1). Replace the amplifier
2). Install a DSP unit to offset the nascent DSP, or
3). Use a high-quality DMP through the analog Aux-In jack, which apparently (somehow) bypasses the nascent DSP.

The 2 Series audio has a ton of quirks, no matter what level you opt for. It's just not a very good system.
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      06-21-2016, 04:05 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Yes, 'quality' can be a subjective judgment. But there is not $700 (or $900ish, which is the option price of it in the U.S. on 2 Series cars other than the M2) worth of better componentry in the HK system, and there are numerous 2Addicts members who have upgraded the Hi-Fi system to sound significantly better than the HK system for less money than that. How do we know? We've listened to both, side by side.

Add to that growing evidence of a potential intermittent sub-failure issue on the 2 Series HK -- and not the Hi-Fi -- and well ... the consensus is that the Hi-Fi option is a better platform to upgrade than the HK.

The biggest weakness of both systems isn't the hardware at all -- it's the built-in DSP curve. It cuts lows and highs and slightly boosts mids, something that you can't flatten or eliminate unless you do one of three things:
1). Replace the amplifier
2). Install a DSP unit to offset the nascent DSP, or
3). Use a high-quality DMP through the analog Aux-In jack, which apparently (somehow) bypasses the nascent DSP.

The 2 Series audio has a ton of quirks, no matter what level you opt for. It's just not a very good system.

Thank you for the very informative post. Much appreciated

Learning the DSP limits the frequency response at both ends is very disappointing as well as the midrange boost. I can imagine how it must sound just by reading your description.
I wish there would be an easy way to add DSP into smartphones. At least you would be able to eliminate some issues in these type off situations.
Of course in this case it would not help if there is a filter function applied that cuts the lowest and highest frequencies.

I think I seriously need to rethink the H/K option after hearing all these negative things about how BMW and H/K has decided to cut the corners...

BR
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      06-21-2016, 04:24 PM   #33
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If you replace all the speakers and amp and sub do you need to pair it with an aftermarket HU or does the oem screen work?
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      06-22-2016, 10:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
If you replace all the speakers and amp and sub do you need to pair it with an aftermarket HU or does the oem screen work?
The HU is separate from the amp (it's technically part of the iDrive system), so all functions should work.

That said, both the DSP and the ASD are in the amp module/assembly. By swapping out the amp, you lose the DSP but don't gain any additional tone or output controls beyond what the HU (Bass/Treble/Balance/Fader) or your replacement amp provide. The tradeoff, however, is worth it since the sound is much more even across the audible spectrum.

It's important to note that BMWs require amps with differential balanced speaker inputs, which narrows your available aftermarket choices considerably. Also, an aftermarket amp will increase the static volume of the ASD; choosing a model with gain adjustment for each channel (specifically, the rears) is important to keep it under control if you want to retain ASD.

What many 2Addicts have done is use TechnicPnP's plug-and-play harness to make installation -- and returning to OEM -- much easier. It's not required, but it keeps you from having to splice at least a dozen wires from the OEM harness.
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      06-22-2016, 10:11 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The HU is separate from the amp (it's technically part of the iDrive system), so all functions should work.

That said, both the DSP and the ASD are in the amp module/assembly. By swapping out the amp, you lose the DSP but don't gain any additional tone or output controls beyond what the HU (Bass/Treble/Balance/Fader) or your replacement amp provide. The tradeoff, however, is worth it since the sound is much more even across the audible spectrum.

It's important to note that BMWs require amps with differential balanced speaker inputs, which narrows your available aftermarket choices considerably. Also, an aftermarket amp will increase the static volume of the ASD; choosing a model with gain adjustment for each channel (specifically, the rears) is important to keep it under control if you want to retain ASD.

What many 2Addicts have done is use TechnicPnP's plug-and-play harness to make installation -- and returning to OEM -- much easier. It's not required, but it keeps you from having to splice at least a dozen wires from the OEM harness.
Thanks for the explanation - that makes sense. Its really annoying they don't offer a better option for audio. I'm coming from the bang & olufsen system in my audi and its awesome. I listened to the H&K in a m235 which is the same system the M2 will come with and the difference is night and day. I really enjoy music while driving and I know hearing the difference is going to drive me nuts. I am not really a DIY kind of guy when it comes to audio so I'm trying to figure out an optimal upgrade that won't cost a fortune with labour.
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      06-22-2016, 12:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The HU is separate from the amp (it's technically part of the iDrive system), so all functions should work.

That said, both the DSP and the ASD are in the amp module/assembly. By swapping out the amp, you lose the DSP but don't gain any additional tone or output controls beyond what the HU (Bass/Treble/Balance/Fader) or your replacement amp provide. The tradeoff, however, is worth it since the sound is much more even across the audible spectrum.

It's important to note that BMWs require amps with differential balanced speaker inputs, which narrows your available aftermarket choices considerably. Also, an aftermarket amp will increase the static volume of the ASD; choosing a model with gain adjustment for each channel (specifically, the rears) is important to keep it under control if you want to retain ASD.

What many 2Addicts have done is use TechnicPnP's plug-and-play harness to make installation -- and returning to OEM -- much easier. It's not required, but it keeps you from having to splice at least a dozen wires from the OEM harness.
Really appreciate the advice and technical knowledge you're sharing. When I got a quote for a replacement system, the one component that I did not have personal experience with was an Audison bit Ten. Definitely seems like a necessary addition given I was adamant about keeping the stock head unit. I was curious if you have an opinion on it, specifically, or any other comparable processor that you'd recommend.

In another thread, DKM3Power recommended an AudioControl LC2i.

I'd appreciate any feedback that you have on the subject.
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      06-22-2016, 12:44 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by confusion View Post
Really appreciate the advice and technical knowledge you're sharing. When I got a quote for a replacement system, the one component that I did not have personal experience with was an Audison bit Ten. Definitely seems like a necessary addition given I was adamant about keeping the stock head unit. I was curious if you have an opinion on it, specifically, or any other comparable processor that you'd recommend.

In another thread, DKM3Power recommended an AudioControl LC2i.

I'd appreciate any feedback that you have on the subject.
You bet. The less confusion (no pun intended, really!) there is about the HK for you lucky M2 owners, the better, 'cause the heavens know we F22/F23 owners have been frustrated by it!

Either one of those solutions will work great if paired with a good aftermarket amp. I'd personally opt for the AudioControl unit unless I was sparing no expense with other upgrades. If ASD is retained, it'll still be necessary to use an amp with individual-channel gain control to keep ASD volume low. The far better option is to either code it out (OK) or use the other harness TechnicPnP makes: the ASD removal one. See this thread for a discussion on its benefits vs. coding.

As for amps themselves: The Bimmertech solution here, which incorporates a Match PP82DSP amp with built-in DSP, has been used by some. A popular choice that doesn't include DSP is the JL Audio XD600/6v2. Other possibilities include the Alpine PDX series and those from several higher-end makers (AudioControl, Zapco, Audison, others).
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      06-22-2016, 12:55 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
You bet. The less confusion (no pun intended, really!) there is about the HK for you lucky M2 owners, the better, 'cause the heavens know we F22/F23 owners have been frustrated by it!

Either one of those solutions will work great if paired with a good aftermarket amp. I'd personally opt for the AudioControl unit unless I was sparing no expense with other upgrades. If ASD is retained, it'll still be necessary to use an amp with individual-channel gain control to keep ASD volume low. The far better option is to either code it out (OK) or use the other harness TechnicPnP makes: the ASD removal one. See this thread for a discussion on its benefits vs. coding.

As for amps themselves: The Bimmertech solution here, which incorporates a Match PP82DSP amp with built-in DSP, has been used by some. A popular choice that doesn't include DSP is the JL Audio XD600/6v2. Other possibilities include the Alpine PDX series and those from several higher-end makers (AudioControl, Zapco, Audison, others).
Cool, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I have planned (not purchased!) JL amps (HD) and a single 12" sub (either w6 or w7) and Focal speakers (model number escapes me atm). So it would be a very nice setup. I have the TechnicPnP harness already.
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      06-22-2016, 05:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by confusion View Post
Cool, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I have planned (not purchased!) JL amps (HD) and a single 12" sub (either w6 or w7) and Focal speakers (model number escapes me atm). So it would be a very nice setup. I have the TechnicPnP harness already.
Please post what you end up going with and how it sounds - Thanks!
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      06-22-2016, 05:36 PM   #40
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Please post what you end up going with and how it sounds - Thanks!
It'll be a while before I pursue this but I will post about it once I can make it happen.
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