[JCZ5]

Came across this interesting article in the future of manual transmissions.

Long story short - new "clutch by wire" technology allows for more efficiency than traditional MT. This is crucial as regulations require cars to be more efficient and "green". If this feature allows the MT to live in a few more models, longer, then I am all for it!

Interesting that KIA was able to develop this tech considering they're not in the performance car market. But maybe it's a sign for KIA/Hyundai in the future? I know Hyundai has grand plans for their "N" range.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/06/26/c...missions-time/

[KevinM]

Interesting, thanks for posting.

The last paragraph is:

“An automatic or a double-clutch transmission suits a lot of drivers, but European drivers in particular still love changing gear for themselves. Alongside the increasing demand for electrified models, the iMT is a result of us exploring ways to electrify the ‘classic’ manual transmission.” said Dr Michael Winkler, KIA’s head of powertrain development.

This seems a bit strange as it seems the NA market for MT-specced performance cars is higher than in Europe. Or was. Remember the NA-only MT for the E60 M5?

[Poochie]

I don't see this getting very far with BMW; they got one good generation of offering the a bonafide, clutch-based, manual transmission before they completely discontinue the option.

They're going to use what they already have, with maybe a mild throttle software addendum..

This seems like a Kia exclusive and good for them for being innovative, in such a niche market..

[DriverDaily]

How are you supposed to feel the engagement point with a digital signal?

[xxyion]

This is crazy. I was literally just thinking of something like this the other day. It basically seems like you have a simulated clutch which basically allows you to use it or not at your own discretion.

I'm totally down for something like this as there are times i wish i had a DCT but other times i'm really happy with the MT. I'd be curious to see if you can actuate it like a normal clutch or if theres an option for the car to just shift itself.

[JCZ5]

Yes, my first question was similar to what was stated above, how do they simulate the clutch bite point.

However, just speculating, I'm sure they can build in an "artificial" feedback system that can enable the feel. I say this because look at advanced sim racing. Everything is "drive by wire" in those scenarios. Yet, based on tactile feedback and motors, etc. you're still able to get some feel out of them.

Now, I do wonder if BMW will phase out manual after one more generation. Of all the performance brand out there, I feel BMW and Porsche may continue to offer them as their DNA on old school driving runs deep. It may be niche, but so many businesses are fun on niche products and have been successful. Worst case, the MT may be a break even initiative, but it will continue nonetheless. Heck, I would even pay to have a manual option in the future.

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I don't see this getting very far with BMW; they got one good generation of offering the a bonafide, clutch-based, manual transmission before they completely discontinue the option.

They're going to use what they already have, with maybe a mild throttle software addendum..

This seems like a Kia exclusive and good for them for being innovative, in such a niche market..

Agreed. I feel like BMW and Porsche still offer MT's because they feel obligated to for certain markets - not because they actually want to.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

Agreed. I feel like BMW and Porsche still offer MT's because they feel obligated to for certain markets - not because they actually want to.

True..

I have an interview saved that I can't seem to find right now but they already stated only M cars will be allotted a manual option, for the G-Generation, which is basically just the M2 & M3/4 (RWD Versions)..

We're grasping at straws here; the manual option is practically gone, they're just throwing us few holdovers a bone.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

True..

I have an interview saved that I can't seem to find right now but they already stated only M cars will be allotted a manual option, for the G-Generation, which is basically just the M2 & M3/4 (RWD Versions)..

We're grasping at straws here; the manual option is practically gone, they're just throwing us few holdovers a bone.

Yup. We already see with the 992 that the 7MT is an S model+ only option, though they say it's coming to the base model. I think by the end of the 992, it will be an S or GTS only option for not just the 992, but also the 718 successor.

[JCZ5]

So basically from what I'm hearing: The manual option will always be "available", but it will now cost significantly more to have one and is no longer the "frugal" transmission choice.

Although, I feel this is where the Asian brands will pick up the slack. Look at the Hyundai N line. And KIA investing in all this tech for a manual transmission.

Also, with the traditional manual transmission, are there any improvements left (with the exception of shift feel, etc)? I say this because the R&D cost should already be paid back. Even if there are only a handful of MT suppliers left. They can just supply the same darn thing in multiple different vehicles/brands. Similar to why ZF have been doing with their 8 speed.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Although, I feel this is where the Asian brands will pick up the slack. Look at the Hyundai N line. And KIA investing in all this tech for a manual transmission.

I doubt it; automatic, however you want to label the offerings, is the norm now and there is no turning back.

Kia barely sells any performance-oriented vehicles, so I sincerely doubt they're going to invest much R&D into an option, that's not worthwhile to them..

Almost everyone under 30, that approaches my vehicle, always ask the same question when they see the shift lever; "Oh, what's that." It's very telling where the future demographic is headed.

The manual transmission is become a novelty now and with this COVID nonsense throwing the automotive industry into a financial tizzy, I really doubt they're going to now focus much on a niche product, such as an electric-manual. But that's just my opinion.

[Kankles]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Interesting, thanks for posting.

The last paragraph is:

"An automatic or a double-clutch transmission suits a lot of drivers, but European drivers in particular still love changing gear for themselves. Alongside the increasing demand for electrified models, the iMT is a result of us exploring ways to electrify the 'classic' manual transmission." said Dr Michael Winkler, KIA's head of powertrain development.

This seems a bit strange as it seems the NA market for MT-specced performance cars is higher than in Europe. Or was. Remember the NA-only MT for the E60 M5?

You may be right for "performance cars" (irony- As a Yank I was only person to buy an M2C from Euro dealer (up to that point last year) but across the board many more Europeans drive MT versus the US.

Also, I don't think KIA is focused on performance nearly as much as capturing a part of the Euro crowd that want to shift their own gears in their 118d.

[Tag]

Seems neat in theory, but not sure how well it would work in practice. For instance, DCT is much batter now than previous versions, but it can still be herky jerky at low speeds. They haven't perfected that so confidence an iMT would do better are low. Also, anytime they remove human input and put the computer in the middle, it makes the experience worse. Sure they can improve it etc., but that requires lots of time and investment. With the watered down, one size fits all path BMW is treading, don't hold your breath.

[Faikius]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Came across this interesting article in the future of manual transmissions.

Long story short - new "clutch by wire" technology allows for more efficiency than traditional MT. This is crucial as regulations require cars to be more efficient and "green". If this feature allows the MT to live in a few more models, longer, then I am all for it!

Interesting that KIA was able to develop this tech considering they're not in the performance car market. But maybe it's a sign for KIA/Hyundai in the future? I know Hyundai has grand plans for their "N" range.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/06/26/c...missions-time/

Can't find the link, but pretty sure I recall GM patenting something similar. There was hope the tech would bring a form of manual to the C8 corvette as it isn't designed to accommodate a traditional clutch.

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by F82PRETEND

Yup. We already see with the 992 that the 7MT is an S model+ only option, though they say it's coming to the base model. I think by the end of the 992, it will be an S or GTS only option for not just the 992, but also the 718 successor.

Yeah; I honestly don't see MT as an option after the 992. But we still have quite some time to enjoy it now. We're barely into 992.1 and we still have 992.2 to look forward to!

[pz619]

I mean, I love driving a manual car as much as the next enthusiast, but this feels like we’re jumping the shark here. Putting a baton in the center console while fake shifting and making engine noises with your mouth here might be a cheaper and more economical way to accomplish the same thing.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by pz619

I mean, I love driving a manual car as much as the next enthusiast, but this feels like we're jumping the shark here. Putting a baton in the center console while fake shifting and making engine noises with your mouth here might be a cheaper and more economical way to accomplish the same thing.

Hey making engine noises with your mouth may be the way to go with all the complaints on turbocharging. People would hardly criticize their own self produced noise, right? 👍

[Ftpohyeah]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Interesting, thanks for posting.

The last paragraph is:

"An automatic or a double-clutch transmission suits a lot of drivers, but European drivers in particular still love changing gear for themselves. Alongside the increasing demand for electrified models, the iMT is a result of us exploring ways to electrify the 'classic' manual transmission." said Dr Michael Winkler, KIA's head of powertrain development.

This seems a bit strange as it seems the NA market for MT-specced performance cars is higher than in Europe. Or was. Remember the NA-only MT for the E60 M5?

I went to Paris last summer and i rented a 5 spd Peugeot 208 - had a pretty fun time driving it.

We went all around Paris and the amount of manuals wayyyy exceeded what i thought initially. Nothing performance related, theres just a lot more manuals than one would think. I think they have more manuals there than ny.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Ftpohyeah

I went to Paris last summer and i rented a 5 spd Peugeot 208 - had a pretty fun time driving it.

We went all around Paris and the amount of manuals wayyyy exceeded what i thought initially. Nothing performance related, theres just a lot more manuals than one would think. I think they have more manuals there than ny.

Thank you for your feedback. I suspect there were more manuals than what we had originally suspected. As you said, guess they're in more mainstream cars.

By in large, most people I have met in Europe know how to drive a manual, so there's that.