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      02-07-2019, 05:04 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Am I the only one who is thinks it's absurd that the m2 is more than 500lbs heavier than the e46??
CSL is a stripped down version of the base e46 which was built in an era where cars were overall lighter.

500 lbs is a lot but the M2 has a LOT more comfort features.

If bmw comes out with a GTS type M2 it would be a better Apples to apples comparison
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      02-07-2019, 05:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Am I the only one who is thinks it's absurd that the m2 is more than 500lbs heavier than the e46??
CSL is a stripped down version of the base e46 which was built in an era where cars were overall lighter.

500 lbs is a lot but the M2 has a LOT more comfort features.

If bmw comes out with a GTS type M2 it would be a better Apples to apples comparison
Yeah I know what the CSL is..

This is directly comparing the two cars so that's why I said what I did. 500lbs is a massive amount of weight for electronics and comfort items regardless of what trim/model it comes in. At the end of the day they're both still 2 door coupes with very, very similar dimensions.
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      02-07-2019, 05:31 PM   #25
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I didn't know they made a red M2. Looks very nice. Wouldn't mind one for the right price
Its not red, its actually Sunset Orange which can sometimes look a bit red-ish depending on how the light hits it. I do wonder what an Imola Red M2 would look like though...
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      02-07-2019, 09:56 PM   #26
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SMG is the reason I hated my e46 m3 and sold it after only 3 months, what a trash trans...would easily take the comp over the csl
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      02-07-2019, 10:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Casotakar View Post
SMG is the reason I hated my e46 m3 and sold it after only 3 months, what a trash trans...would easily take the comp over the csl
And yet people say that csl is the car they wish they had. I think people don't realize they would have to deal with that transmission.
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      02-08-2019, 12:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Yeah I know what the csl is... they are doing a direct comparison between the two which is why I mentioned what I did...
There's almost 15 years of technology advancements between the two cars, you would think weight savings would be a huge part of bmws R&D for this car but clearly not
I can't find an exact figure but at the time the E46 M3 CSL was new, it cost more than the equivalent 911. It was an even more extremely-priced M3 variant than both E92 M3 GTS and F82 M4 GTS were and was even more extreme than those cars in its weight savings.

If M2 Competition was $120,000 today they could probably have been able to afford some serious weight reduction but we can see where they had to save money vs. the F8x M3/M4 - the M2 ends up weighing just as much as the significantly larger F8x models because it lacks the carbon roof, carbon driveshaft, carbon trunk (of the M4), etc. despite actually being shorter than the E46 and actually being closer in length to the E36 3 series!

I'm not saying I disagree with you, the CSL was and still is a hugely impressive vehicle but there's no way to replicate that at the M2 Competition's price level. In my opinion, allllll the cool shit we get for such a small price bump over the original M2 is pretty damn impressive and I think M2 Competition is one of the bargains of the century (as long as you don't try to lease it).

Last edited by Remonster; 02-08-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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      02-08-2019, 01:52 AM   #29
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      02-08-2019, 02:06 AM   #30
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Are people forgetting about the whole slew of carbon fiber M Performance parts BMW released for the M2? There's your spiritual CSL successor right there, but without the crap SMG transmission.

The only downside to the M2 Competition is the connected twin kidney grille. I've come to appreciate the connected grille on every new BMW model except for the M2 Comp, which is such a shame because it's the complete driving enthusiast package otherwise and my favorite BMW right now. The shape they chose to outline the kidneys is awful compared to the other new designs like on the G20, F90, G05, etc. The M2's looks like a silly mustache by comparison, and the fact that there is less real estate on the front to begin with makes it appear that much more gaudy and out of place.

Please BMW, I'm okay with the connected design if that's where things are going, but for the love of God, just revise the outline's shape on the next M2 variant so it doesn't look so goofy and out of place. Then again, if there was one car that didn't need the connected grille to begin with, it would have been the M2 Competition. It's not even a new generation car, and IMHO didn't warrant any grille changes from the OG F87 M2. They just made it look stupid for nothing. Okay, rant over.
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      02-08-2019, 09:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Iconic cars
Iconic car*

The M2 is and never will be iconic, there's nothing unique about the car, they're essentially parts bin specials from bmw m and they made are still making them in the thousands per month...
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      02-08-2019, 09:13 AM   #32
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I'm probably one of the greatest E46 fanatics on earth... owned several E46 and also the biggest E46 forum in the german speaking area....

The E46 M3 CSL is an absolut icon and truly legendary car. It is the reason for my deep love to BMW and I cannot remember having more fun driving a car other than the E46 M3 CSL. It's so absolutely precise, light, fast AND it had all the drama one could ever need.

My decision was between a used E46 M3 CSL and the M2 Competition. For me the M2 Competition is the modern reincarnation of the E46 M3, same size, same proportions, very similar style, and all of todays bells and whistle's a DRIVERS CAR needs.

For the sake of daily drivability and not buying an E46 for the third time I took the M2C and don't regret it for a single second.

But i'm still deeply in love with the E46 M3 CSL...
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      02-08-2019, 09:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Am I the only one who is thinks it's absurd that the m2 is more than 500lbs heavier than the e46??
And this is where all that talk about the genetic code rings false to me.

The M2C is just an M car, and a good one at it, but heavy. It feels far more brutal in responses and doesn’t have the same delicacy covering ground.

The CSL is very special. Light, manic, exploitable. Why do you think most sideways pic on the road where of the CSL?

Does ithe M2C have character? Absolutely. Is it the same character as the CSL? Absolutely not.



These journalists sometimes just feel the need to type and be dramatic, doesn’t mean they’re right.
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      02-08-2019, 09:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
And yet people say that csl is the car they wish they had. I think people don't realize they would have to deal with that transmission.
I think this part of the conversation is really interesting - one of my good buddies has owned 2 E46 M3s in his life, and both were SMGs. Besides the reliability and expensive to fix aspects, he seemed to like the SMG.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the main gripe with the SMG from a driving experience point of view? The time I have spend in an E46 M3 has been with a MT, so I don't have a frame of reference.
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      02-08-2019, 09:54 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I think this part of the conversation is really interesting - one of my good buddies has owned 2 E46 M3s in his life, and both were SMGs. Besides the reliability and expensive to fix aspects, he seemed to like the SMG.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the main gripe with the SMG from a driving experience point of view? The time I have spend in an E46 M3 has been with a MT, so I don't have a frame of reference.
https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=550075
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      02-08-2019, 10:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
That thread seems to focus on reliability issues - I am more interested in the dissatisfaction from a driving experience standpoint. Perhaps the general consensus is that the SMG is a good transmission, as long as it is not in the shop?

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      02-08-2019, 10:19 AM   #37
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      02-08-2019, 10:52 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
And yet people say that csl is the car they wish they had. I think people don't realize they would have to deal with that transmission.
I think this part of the conversation is really interesting - one of my good buddies has owned 2 E46 M3s in his life, and both were SMGs. Besides the reliability and expensive to fix aspects, he seemed to like the SMG.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the main gripe with the SMG from a driving experience point of view? The time I have spend in an E46 M3 has been with a MT, so I don't have a frame of reference.
„Smooth" is something different...

But at that time it was pretty amazing!
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      02-08-2019, 11:00 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ///M Houbi View Post
„Smooth" is something different...

But at that time it was pretty amazing!
I think that makes sense - the gripes don't seem to be centered on how the SMG felt or operated, but rather, that is was a reliability PITA and expensive to fix, which I understand.
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      02-08-2019, 11:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Yeah I know what the csl is... they are doing a direct comparison between the two which is why I mentioned what I did...
There's almost 15 years of technology advancements between the two cars, you would think weight savings would be a huge part of bmws R&D for this car but clearly not
One is a low production halo version, the other is the standard model. You'd have to compare something like the M4 GTS to the M3 CSL.
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      02-08-2019, 12:15 PM   #41
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Two of my favorite cars, just need an M2 comp to complete the pic. My M3 CSL Clone is good enough for me.
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      02-08-2019, 02:25 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I think this part of the conversation is really interesting - one of my good buddies has owned 2 E46 M3s in his life, and both were SMGs. Besides the reliability and expensive to fix aspects, he seemed to like the SMG.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the main gripe with the SMG from a driving experience point of view? The time I have spend in an E46 M3 has been with a MT, so I don't have a frame of reference.
I believe it was slow to respond to user input. The shifts were fast when they happened, but it didn't happen right when you gave the input to shift. I didn't own one though so maybe I don't know what I am talking about.
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      02-08-2019, 02:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Yeah I know what the csl is... they are doing a direct comparison between the two which is why I mentioned what I did...
There's almost 15 years of technology advancements between the two cars, you would think weight savings would be a huge part of bmws R&D for this car but clearly not
One is a low production halo version, the other is the standard model. You'd have to compare something like the M4 GTS to the M3 CSL.
Jeez I keep saying the same thing to people on here. I know what the CSL is and why it's so special!

This comparison is putting the two cars next to each other in a direct comparison, stating the M2 has the DNA of the CSL.
Sadly it does not, the only thing it shares with the CSL is that they're both rwd coupes with an I6 and a bmw badge on the trunk...
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      02-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I'd take the E46 M3 CSL anyday
PREACH - from an M2 LCI owner
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