[Amgkiller1017]

I started a thread here just over a year ago about the onset of socialism in North America but most people said i was fear mongering and that there was no imminent threat of socialism.

How about now?

[The Chaddening]

Yup, the cattle here will gladly vote for anyone that says “free” the most.

How far we have fallen.

[Amgkiller1017]

Originally Posted by DonaldPump

Yup, the cattle here will gladly vote for anyone that says “free” the most.

How far we have fallen.

The people will vote with their feet

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Amgkiller1017

I started a thread here just over a year ago about the onset of socialism in North America but most people said i was fear mongering and that there was no imminent threat of socialism.

How about now?

Socialism has been afoot here for decades. It's starting to get more traction, now that we've got 2 full generations of mental invalids produced by the socialist-run primary and secondary education systems. They've been taught that critical thinking is racist/homophobic/sexist, or some other "ist" that will make them a target of shame. Scientific illiteracy is epidemic. They've been indoctrinated to be deferential to authority in any form. They're so stupid that every time they blink, they think it's a new day. If brains were dynamite, they couldn't blow their noses.

And this is how we've gotten to the point there's no longer 2 sexes, but an infinite number. If you can pump enough "stupid" into kids that they'll disown their instincts, their common sense, their culture and the entire Western intellectual tradition, they become very easy to govern. They're just "tax cattle." And this was precisely the goal all along.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

And this is how we've gotten to the point there's no longer 2 sexes, but an infinite number.

How is this a socialst argument?

If any, this is a result of libertarianism, aka result of extensive political and social freedom.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Amgkiller1017

I started a thread here just over a year ago about the onset of socialism in North America but most people said i was fear mongering and that there was no imminent threat of socialism.

How about now?

Socialism in the US started with FDR in the 1930's. EX, Social security, Public school system. HUD.

1960's: Medicare and Medicaid

Students loan program is highly socialistic.

[Salty Dog]

So just north of the border we have a parliamentary system of government and a multi party system which is a curse and a blessing. In the recent election our re-elected PM won with about 34% of the vote. He is a liberal, a party that used to be in roughly the centre of the political spectrum. They have moved so far left over the past decade or two that the NDP which is a socialist party is almost indistinguishable from them, and then we have the Green Party who is well pretty socialist and really all about environmental issues, then we have the Bloc who are a Nationalist party in Quebec only, and openly and only advocate for that province and are way farther left than the Liberals. All this to say that about 60-70% of Canadians voted for a left or farther left leaning party in the last election. The blessing is it's a multi party system. If they every combined forces we'd be full on socialism in a decade. Early comments were correct, much of this nonsense is coming out of the school system starting in kindergarten and right through college and university. The teacher and professors are all unionized and the unions are pushing the agenda through education.

I've started posing the question to all of the left learners, when you get all the "free stuff" you're asking for and slowly getting now, then what? When the government is giving you everything, then what. Because it won't stop there, everyone will want fair and equal pay regardless of what they do, because if there are rich people then the playing field will have to levelled. And that is full socialism slipping into communism. Sounds like the sky is falling but look at Venezuela. A few short years ago a wealthy country and now you need to line up for government supplied toilet paper. Yup, it's free.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So just north of the border we have a parliamentary system of government and a multi party system which is a curse and a blessing. In the recent election our re-elected PM won with about 34% of the vote. He is a liberal, a party that used to be in roughly the centre of the political spectrum. They have moved so far left over the past decade or two that the NDP which is a socialist party is almost indistinguishable from them, and then we have the Green Party who is well pretty socialist and really all about environmental issues, then we have the Bloc who are a Nationalist party in Quebec only, and openly and only advocate for that province and are way farther left than the Liberals. All this to say that about 60-70% of Canadians voted for a left or farther left leaning party in the last election. The blessing is it's a multi party system. If they every combined forces we'd be full on socialism in a decade. Early comments were correct, much of this nonsense is coming out of the school system starting in kindergarten and right through college and university. The teacher and professors are all unionized and the unions are pushing the agenda through education.

I've started posing the question to all of the left learners, when you get all the "free stuff" your asking for and slowly getting now, then what? When the government is giving you everything, then what. Because it won't stop there, everyone will want fair and equal pay regardless of what they do, because if there are rich people then the playing field will have to levelled. And that is full socialism slipping into communism. Sounds like the sky is falling but look at Venezuela. A few short years ago a wealthy country and now you need to line up for government supplied toilet paper. Yup, it's free.

Ah - but according to the fools who push this baloney - that wasn't real socialism. Real socialism would work great, they say.

Bunch of morons - the lot of them.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

Ah - but according to the fools who push this baloney - that wasn't real socialism. Real socialism would work great, they say.

Bunch of morons - the lot of them.

]

So if I understand that argument it's more of a paper exercise/philosophical thing since there isn't an example of "real socialism" actually being tried and succeeding.

[NormanConquest]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

]

So if I understand that argument it's more of a paper exercise/philosophical thing since there isn't an example of "real socialism" actually being tried and succeeding.

Marxism, communism, nazism, fascism whatever north korea and cuba has is not 'real' socialism since real socialism spawn out of the french revolution and it was between the third estate vs the 2nd and 1st and all that resulted was show trails, theft and murder..... which is the common theme with any verison of socialism

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by NormanConquest

Marxism, communism, nazism, fascism whatever north korea and cuba has is not 'real' socialism since real socialism spawn out of the french revolution and it was between the third estate vs the 2nd and 1st and all that resulted was show trails, theft and murder..... which is the common theme with any verison of socialism

So correct me if I'm wrong, has any form of socialism ever been successful. Or do all the folks pushing for it now just think they can get it right?

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

How is this a socialst argument?

If any, this is a result of libertarianism, aka result of extensive political and social freedom.

To be precise, it's a Postmodern argument. Everything is a social construct, including gender/sex. The binary male-female gender model was constructed for the benefit and empowerment of those who identify as the male or female gender they were assigned at birth (the cisnormative)...so the theory goes.

Freedom to contradict natural laws and the natural order of things ends in chaos, and chaos is the opposite of freedom. Postmodernist theory falls apart in practice, which is to be expected given its origin.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So correct me if I'm wrong, has any form of socialism ever been successful. Or do all the folks pushing for it now just think they can get it right?

Ahh, you're on to something.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Ahh, you're on to something.

That sums it up so well.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So correct me if I'm wrong, has any form of socialism ever been successful. Or do all the folks pushing for it now just think they can get it right?

Somethiing something history, something something doomed to repeat it.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Somethiing something history, something something doomed to repeat it.

I know, every time I hear someone talking about how socialism is going to solve all of the problems of the world I ask them to tell me when it worked.

The usual response has nothing to do with any of the abject failures, they always talk about Sweden, Finland, Canada etc......

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So correct me if I'm wrong, has any form of socialism ever been successful. Or do all the folks pushing for it now just think they can get it right?

It works great until you run out of other people's money.

There are a couple of dominant excuses as to why it's failed every time it's been tried. One can be paraphrased as "Well, that's because they didn't do it right," and another as "It failed because [Mao|Stalin|Pol Pot|Castro] and the others in power abused it for their own benefit."

Socialism goes against the innate human sense of fairness and the right to benefit directly from our own efforts and abilities. For this reason, it can never work.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

I know, every time I hear someone talking about how socialism is going to solve all of the problems of the world I ask them to tell me when it worked.

The usual response has nothing to do with any of the abject failures, they always talk about Sweden, Finland, Canada etc......

When you encounter that argument, show them something like this. Sweden is objectively not socialist. They tried it, and then wised up.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So just north of the border we have a parliamentary system of government and a multi party system which is a curse and a blessing. In the recent election our re-elected PM won with about 34% of the vote. He is a liberal, a party that used to be in roughly the centre of the political spectrum. They have moved so far left over the past decade or two that the NDP which is a socialist party is almost indistinguishable from them, and then we have the Green Party who is well pretty socialist and really all about environmental issues, then we have the Bloc who are a Nationalist party in Quebec only, and openly and only advocate for that province and are way farther left than the Liberals. All this to say that about 60-70% of Canadians voted for a left or farther left leaning party in the last election. The blessing is it's a multi party system. If they every combined forces we'd be full on socialism in a decade. Early comments were correct, much of this nonsense is coming out of the school system starting in kindergarten and right through college and university. The teacher and professors are all unionized and the unions are pushing the agenda through education.

I've started posing the question to all of the left learners, when you get all the "free stuff" you're asking for and slowly getting now, then what? When the government is giving you everything, then what. Because it won't stop there, everyone will want fair and equal pay regardless of what they do, because if there are rich people then the playing field will have to levelled. And that is full socialism slipping into communism. Sounds like the sky is falling but look at Venezuela. A few short years ago a wealthy country and now you need to line up for government supplied toilet paper. Yup, it's free.

Resources are necessarily finite, and human desires are infinite. No system of government can change that. But that doesn't stop politicians from buying votes with promises to do so.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

When you encounter that argument, show them something like this. Sweden is objectively not socialist. They tried it, and then wised up.

I think the problem is that the folks pushing for socialism don't actually know what it is. They seem to think that it's some kind of Star Trek nirvana where theres no money, just peace and fairness, holodecks and food replicators.

I can't believe I just used a Star Trek comparison. For the Record, I don't live in my mothers basement.

[NormanConquest]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

So correct me if I'm wrong, has any form of socialism ever been successful. Or do all the folks pushing for it now just think they can get it right?

All of them are socialism but with different views on how to accomplish communism

Original was by seizing and abolishing the 1st and 2nd estate
One does it by seizing the means of production
Other one is via national identity
Other one is via race
Other one is via making a god emperor

No matter what they all end with murder and death and it sad people have not learn that yet.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

I think the problem is that the folks pushing for socialism don't actually know what it is. They seem to think that it's some kind of Star Trek nirvana where theres no money, just peace and fairness, holodecks and food replicators.

I can't believe I just used a Star Trek comparison. For the Record, I don't live in my mothers basement.

LOL - the disclaimer is much appreciated.

I think very few socialists actually believe socialism is a viable option, or have even thought about whether or not it could actually work. They mainly use it as an ideological cloak, under which to hide their deep resentments of success and autonomy.