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      11-19-2019, 06:31 AM   #1
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M2C vs GT350 review

Not really considering GT350 seriously, but I did drive a friend's on a backroad recently, and I had some polarizing views I'm curious if other people share.

Engine:

M2C has more of a kick with turbo surge, but my god the GT350 sounds like pure bliss. It also has nice NA throttle response(though M2C isn't bad here either) and feels like a larger S2000 in terms of engine. M2C sounds pathetic with a stock exhaust compared to GT350, which isn't that surprising. However, M2C has more potential with bolt-ons, due to being a turbo car.

Winner: GT350 by far haha

Chassis:

Driving on a tight backroad downhill fairly fast, the GT350 definitely showed its weaknesses. I drove it in track mode, and it did not feel lithe at all feeling downright big, while the M2C felt far more akin to lighter FR cars such as the E36/E46 M3, not showing it's weight close to as much.

Some of this can be attributed to how dialed in each car was, but both cars had basic suspension mods at the least. The GT350 felt clumsy and fat in the rear end, and far less confidence-inspiring while also being less enjoyable. On the track, my answer could change, especially if I drove a GT350R. But on tight-ish backroads, the M2C is a far more potent and agile weapon as it stands.

Winner: M2C

Feel:

This one is honestly a toss-up. My M2C has engine/transmission mounts and a lot of suspension work, while the GT350 didn't have that much. Despite this, the GT350 steering felt more "natural", while the M2C felt more "rubbery" with slightly less communication of what the front tires were doing. The GT350 also seemed to have much lighter steering, which I personally disliked, and not as much feel when losing traction in the rear, though again the modification levels on each car are different, and GT350 steering probably has more potential, as aluminum bushings as available for the steering rack.

In terms of the shifter, The GT350 wins stock for stock no argument, as M2C is very rubbery stock with very little feel, but a CAE in M2C vs MGW in GT350 I think the M2C wins. Seating position in both cars stock is too high, though both can be remedied with a bucket seat. This applies to most flaws in both cars aside from steering haha. The car and driver group test definitely gushed about the steering far too much, as neither car is near perfect. This is definitely a toss-up for me.

Winner: Tie

Interior:

The M2C has the far nicer interior, though the newer GT350/Rs are far better than the older models with nice stitching and the like. Personally I think the M2C is more livable with the higher-quality interior and less NVH stock, so I'd give this one to M2C. But personally I'd be fine with either, especially since I track fairly often.

Winner: M2C

Exterior:

Quality-wise, M2C panel gaps are far better, and paint quality as well, though the GT350 is a little more aggressive-looking IMO. Overall this is your preference. Go with what you like.

Winner: Subjective


Reliability/Safety:

This is where things get slightly dicey. My friend has a 2017 GT350, so it is a Voodoo gen-1, and it consumes a LOT of oil. So much so that it went for the oil consumption test. It also blew its AC compressor, and a considerable amount of other things have gone wrong.

I also have a friend with a 2017 Focus RS, and his engine straight up spun a bearing at 20k miles. This was after he had gotten the head gasket replacement, so it wasn't related to that. Apparently it was a poor tech job replacing the head gasket, or so they said. Though if you care about safety, Ford is generally very good with 5-star ratings. I also have first-hand testimonies, as a friend flew off a mountain in a Focus RS, flipped 18 times, and came out with a few scratches(though the car was totaled).

In comparison to the Ford, my M2C has had one issue, with the shifter being misaligned and popping out of first gear. This was fixed fairly quickly, and no other issues have popped up in 5k miles and 8 track days(knock on wood). However older BMWs have been extremely unreliable at high mileage for me, so honestly, I would also call this a toss-up.

Winner: Tie

Overall, both are great cars, but I think they both need a bit of finessing with mods for hardcore track duty, and neither is perfect. TL;DR, stock, if you want a daily with some character, get the M2C, if you want an emotional car with some daily-ability, get the GT350. Mods toss this out the window for both cars. Even though I said the GT350 was a worse chassis, I think an aggressive alignment and camber plates could possibly mitigate the biggest of my issues. And the engine is great.

Thanks for reading!

Picture of the cars below : )
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      11-19-2019, 08:44 AM   #2
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Carphreak

My good friend has more vehicles than garage space, and I happen to have an extra garage stall. Thus, I have had he pleasure of keeping my friend’s new Shelby GT350 parked in my garage over the past 2-3 months.

(1) drives me insane that someone purchases a new vehicle and has literally not driven the vehicle since taking ownership . . . my friend is not necessarily ‘storing’ his Shelby, so much as he has too many other vehicles that he apparently prefers to drive at this time. Nice problem to have, I suppose, but not one for which I am familiar.

(2) I want to emphasize something that truly cannot be overstated about the Shelby. This is the single greatest sounding stock vehicle I have ever heard. The engine/exhaust acoustics are absolutely exhilarating. I have the keys to my friends Shelby and once or twice a week I will simply turn the vehicle on and give a few spirited revs. Never gets old.

I am one of those individuals that feels acoustics are an immensely important part of the sport car driving experience. Of course, the line is ‘out the door’ with enthusiasts like me craving something that sounds even remotely like the NA engine in our turbo-laden German models.

I have nothing against the Shelby in terms of aesthetics or overall performance, but . . . I dare say if the Shelby did not come with arguably the best acoustics of any stock sport car in the world, then I doubt anyone on this, or related forums would give the Shelby too much attention. My statement reflects just how amazing the Shelby sounds, and in a time when sport car enthusiasts just cannot let go of the glory days of NA engines in our German sport cars.

///AVM

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      11-19-2019, 09:30 AM   #3
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Totally agree, the Shelby sounds amazing, and I think the sound is a big part of the driving experience, which is why I went for a full exhaust on my M2C similar to BAN_M2C's setup. I think the car has decent driving dynamics, but definitely wouldn't be as hyped without the soundtrack.
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      11-19-2019, 01:11 PM   #4
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I plan to sell my M2 before I come back to the States, and GT350 is top of my list for next car. I came from a V8 and the turbo 6 experience showed me how much I need a V8 in my life. For acoustic experience and high end pull.

With some suspension mods, available drop in carbon ceramic rotors (which work with stock calipers) and tons of aftermarket support GT350s are easy to improve in the handling dept for a lower-than-BMW price.

The engine is a gem and I hope in 2 years a lot of the quirks are resolved with the introduction of the Terminator motor in the GT500.

M2 is nice but itís missing that thrill. GT350 is not so much like riding a horse. Itís like breaking one.

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      11-19-2019, 03:45 PM   #5
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Carphreak


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And by the way, this is what the chariot of the God's should sound like.
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      11-20-2019, 08:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I plan to sell my M2 before I come back to the States, and GT350 is top of my list for next car. I came from a V8 and the turbo 6 experience showed me how much I need a V8 in my life. For acoustic experience and high end pull.

With some suspension mods, available drop in carbon ceramic rotors (which work with stock calipers) and tons of aftermarket support GT350s are easy to improve in the handling dept for a lower-than-BMW price.

The engine is a gem and I hope in 2 years a lot of the quirks are resolved with the introduction of the Terminator motor in the GT500.

M2 is nice but itís missing that thrill. GT350 is not so much like riding a horse. Itís like breaking one.
I think both would be nice to have to cover the FR spectrum. Manual NA and DCT Turbo. The issue with the GT350 (and all muscle cars) and to a lesser extent the M2C (and all M cars) is that the older ones plumet in value when the newest and greatest comes out.

I want a GT350 badly but I know that if I wait I can import a lightly used one for less than half of the MSRP. But by then the new GT350 will be the shit and the old one will look and drive like crap haha.
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      11-24-2019, 09:46 PM   #7
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I must admit, I am struggling immensely to not trade in for a 2020 GT350R. Having owned a 2015 Z/28 with its awesome LS7, I am yearning once again for a honed track toy with a very special V8.

I think I'll give the M2 another season though, it's simply a great all-rounder.
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      11-29-2019, 08:15 AM   #8
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I went from a 2015 F80 to a 2016 GT350. Yes, the sound is very intoxicating. I removed the resonators from my stock exhaust setup to match the GT350R, which brought it to an even higher sonic level.

Great car, but I found myself missing the refinement and quality of BMW over the GT350. The M2C is every bit as much of a drivers car as the GT350, and better as a daily around town (GT350 is dead under 4k). The sound of the M2C will never come close to the sound of the Shelby, but that just wasn't enough for me.
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      11-30-2019, 04:48 AM   #9
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Good point. I think to be seriously interested in the GT350 you have to be willing to give up some things. I will miss i-drive for sure, and the compact handling characteristics.

But having a track honed rocket with a magical motor is more important to me. I know there isnít as much torque under 3500 revs, but to me thatís also ok. I can just downshift or hold a lower gear longer.

The choice ultimately depends on your order of priorities.
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      11-30-2019, 08:30 AM   #10
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Agree 100%.

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      12-02-2019, 01:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
And by the way, this is what the chariot of the God's should sound like.
Engine sounds good but the 8:18 time is not so special
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      12-02-2019, 02:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Good point. I think to be seriously interested in the GT350 you have to be willing to give up some things. I will miss i-drive for sure, and the compact handling characteristics.

But having a track honed rocket with a magical motor is more important to me. I know there isn’t as much torque under 3500 revs, but to me that’s also ok. I can just downshift or hold a lower gear longer.

The choice ultimately depends on your order of priorities.
For all the hate you give the S55, you aren't going to bring up the oil problems with the flat plane crank Ford? Tisk tisk.

I really like the GT350, and even cross shopped it with my M2C. But at the end of the day, to a normal person, it's just a Mustang. I'd rather be caught driving an 'orange BMW' than a 'Mustang' 10 days out of the week.
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      12-03-2019, 01:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
Engine sounds good but the 8:18 time is not so special
That's driver, not car. GT350 Ring lap time is 7:32. M2C does is in 7:52 for comparison. 20s in no joke with a professional behind the wheel.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/26/...p-time-report/


https://fastestlaps.com/tests/17i96m40lbei

I've been to the ring for the first time this year in my M2 and I'm sitting at 8:38. Also because of need for more driver mod, not because lack of capability from the car. My goal for next year and perhaps the year after is 7:55. I was being quite cautious my first time out. That place is the most amazing circuit I've been on. Ever. Also it's scary as fcuk if I'm honest. Next year I'll be on full time attack though. I have a life goal to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
For all the hate you give the S55, you aren't going to bring up the oil problems with the flat plane crank Ford? Tisk tisk.

I really like the GT350, and even cross shopped it with my M2C. But at the end of the day, to a normal person, it's just a Mustang. I'd rather be caught driving an 'orange BMW' than a 'Mustang' 10 days out of the week.
Does the Voodoo eat oil? Sure! But a few quarts of oil are still cheaper than a spun crank hub

And you're right. You wouldn't be caught it a Mustang. But a Mustang will catch you in the M2C. Just look at the 'Ring lap times above.
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      12-03-2019, 01:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Does the Voodoo eat oil? Sure! But a few quarts of oil are still cheaper than a spun crank hub

And you're right. You wouldn't be caught it a Mustang. But a Mustang will catch you in the M2C. Just look at the 'Ring lap times above.
Yes, they are notorious for drinking oil and having other oil related issues. A simple Google search will pull up tons of threads about it.

If you are limiting your car buying based off of lap times done by a professional driver on a track that 99% of the human population will never visit, then I feel bad for you. I can't say I've ever heard anyone ever comparing lap times after a nice drive through some twisties, or a cruise with some buddies, or at Cars and Coffee. The only people that I have ever heard actually spew garbage from the spec sheets are 10 year olds on video games.

I didn't buy the M2C because of the lap times, nor did I throw it out because of the exhaust sound (looking directly at you). It made me feel a certain type of way that the other cars I drove didn't. I couldn't care less if it was ahead/behind a GT350 by 20 seconds or 40 seconds or 60 seconds, lap times don't matter to me, and they shouldn't matter to most buyers either. But here we are...
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      12-03-2019, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
That's driver, not car. GT350 Ring lap time is 7:32. M2C does is in 7:52 for comparison. 20s in no joke with a professional behind the wheel.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/26/...p-time-report/


https://fastestlaps.com/tests/17i96m40lbei

I've been to the ring for the first time this year in my M2 and I'm sitting at 8:38. Also because of need for more driver mod, not because lack of capability from the car. My goal for next year and perhaps the year after is 7:55. I was being quite cautious my first time out. That place is the most amazing circuit I've been on. Ever. Also it's scary as fcuk if I'm honest. Next year I'll be on full time attack though. I have a life goal to achieve.



Does the Voodoo eat oil? Sure! But a few quarts of oil are still cheaper than a spun crank hub

And you're right. You wouldn't be caught it a Mustang. But a Mustang will catch you in the M2C. Just look at the 'Ring lap times above.

LMAO. You act like the spun crank hub with the S55 is as likely as burning oil in a GT350.

Super weak argument, and the rest is moot, unless you are out for your personal best track times on the ring.
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      12-03-2019, 03:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Yes, they are notorious for drinking oil and having other oil related issues. A simple Google search will pull up tons of threads about it.

If you are limiting your car buying based off of lap times done by a professional driver on a track that 99% of the human population will never visit, then I feel bad for you. I can't say I've ever heard anyone ever comparing lap times after a nice drive through some twisties, or a cruise with some buddies, or at Cars and Coffee. The only people that I have ever heard actually spew garbage from the spec sheets are 10 year olds on video games.

I didn't buy the M2C because of the lap times, nor did I throw it out because of the exhaust sound (looking directly at you). It made me feel a certain type of way that the other cars I drove didn't. I couldn't care less if it was ahead/behind a GT350 by 20 seconds or 40 seconds or 60 seconds, lap times don't matter to me, and they shouldn't matter to most buyers either. But here we are...
Cool. Glad you're happy. I dream of more. I dream of better. More power. Better sound. Better lap times. Some of us still have dreams.

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LMAO. You act like the spun crank hub with the S55 is as likely as burning oil in a GT350.

Super weak argument, and the rest is moot, unless you are out for your personal best track times on the ring.
Yes, rare failure mode on the S55, though enough have surfaces even on this forum. Hence the smiley, half joking.

And yes, I am one of those people chasing lap times. I want to go faster every year as I visit same tracks every year. And when I upgrade cars it's to aid in this mission. Maybe I'm heading down a dedicated track car rabbit hole? For now there are still faster dual purpose cars out there, so maybe not... who knows.

As for Voodoos eating oil, the simple fix to that is taking it to a track and letting it get up to temp and letting it stay in the high RPM band (for the most part). My Coyote ate a quart in the first 3000 miles. Than I took it to track day and revved the shit out of it for 7 30 min sessions. Redline every shift, then let off in the braking zone and give it a few seconds off throttle before hitting the brakes. It didn't eat a single drop after. Sold it at 38k miles and another 14 track days with no oil consumed. THIS is how I plan on breaking in my next Voodoo. If that works, sweet. If not I feed it oil. If the motor brakes Ford is paying for a new one. So can't hurt.

Voodoos need even more heat to seat the rings, and most owners baby them. How many of those cars do you think see over 6000rpm? This is why they have issues with eating oil. Though to be fair the hand building process doesn't help either.
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      12-03-2019, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Cool. Glad you're happy. I dream of more. I dream of better. More power. Better sound. Better lap times. Some of us still have dreams.

Yes, rare failure mode on the S55, though enough have surfaces even on this forum. Hence the smiley, half joking.

And yes, I am one of those people chasing lap times. I want to go faster every year as I visit same tracks every year. And when I upgrade cars it's to aid in this mission.

As for Voodoos eating oil, the simple fix to that is taking it to a track and letting it get up to temp and letting it stay in the high RPM band (for the most part). My Coyote ate a quart in the first 3000 miles. Than I took it to track day and revved the shit out of it for 7 30 min sessions. Redline every shift, then let off in the braking zone and give it a few seconds off throttle before hitting the brakes. It didn't eat a single drop after. Sold it at 38k miles and another 14 track days with no oil consumed. THIS is how I plan on breaking in my next Voodoo. If that works, sweet. If not I feed it oil. If the motor brakes Ford is paying for a new one. So can't hurt.

Voodoos need even more heat to seat the rings, and most owners baby them. How many of those cars do you think see over 6000rpm? This is why they have issues with eating oil. Though to be fair the hand building process doesn't help either.
Oh, so now you are insinuating that some us dont have dreams anymore? LOL. More power? My tuned F80 would have ate my GT350 for lunch man. Outside of a track, the GT350 is just another Mustang. Ya, the F80 sounded sub-par, and I could give two shits about lap times on a track. Just try not to act superior to others with the "no dreams" comment, simply because you like to track your cars. I just came from an F90 M5 that would destroy most cars in a strait line (power dreams?), but was a bit boring and uber quiet for my tastes. And the tranny, as good as it is, is boring compared to DCT, and massively boring compared to a 6-speed.

I break my cars in more on the aggressive side, so I didnt baby that GT350 for shit when I broke it in. I still had to add oil every couple thou. But it sounds like I never drove it as hard as you drove yours, so apples to oranges I guess.

Like I said, I had an '15 F80 that I got back in Sept of 14, and had it Dinan tuned to over 500hp at 400 miles. Broke it in rather hard (as I did to all my M's), and never had an issue with a spun hub (or anything with the S55, for that matter). Of course I dont keep cars over 20k miles, or out of warranty, so I am zero concerned with engine longevity over 5-10 years.

Enjoy your car...and continue to follow your dreams....
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      12-03-2019, 04:03 PM   #18
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I will. Hope you do as well.

And you sound a bit angry. Need a hug?

And P.S.
It's not physically possible to break a car in "hard" on the street. That's an oxymoron. Unless you own a few miles of a paved road. Just so we're clear. You may be doing it harder than other road users, but at some point you become a danger to them and yourself. And that point is well below what the car considers "hard".
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      12-03-2019, 04:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I will. Hope you do as well.

And you sound a bit angry. Need a hug?

And P.S.
It's not physically possible to break a car in "hard" on the street. That's an oxymoron. Unless you own a few miles of a paved road. Just so we're clear.
Huh? You are totally showing your bias now....

I have miles and miles of back roads here in NC that you can drive very hard on (at least from an engine break-in perspective). Lots of straits and slow benders to run hard back and forth up to redline or near depending on gear.

Did you just see Ford vs. Ferrari or something?

Happy as a clam, btw.

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      12-03-2019, 04:17 PM   #20
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Huh? You are totally showing your bias now....

I have miles and miles of back roads here in NC that you can drive very hard on (at least from an engine break-in perspective). Lots of straits and slow benders to run hard back and forth up to redline or near depending on gear.

\
Ah, thanks for confirming. Hard break-in on the street totally possibel in your view then. We're on different planets here.

Hey, what oil temps and coolant temps do you see during you "hard" streat break-ins?

Coolant over 235F?
Oil over 270F?

Dind't think so...
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"Redline a day keeps the mechanics away"
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      12-03-2019, 04:18 PM   #21
TheRealOrosie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Ah, thanks for confirming. Hard break-in on the street totally possibel in your view then. We're on different planets here.

Hey, what oil temps and coolant temps do you see during you "hard" streat break-ins?

Coolant over 235F?
Oil over 270F?

Dind't think so...

God I admire you.

Bye.
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      12-03-2019, 10:12 PM   #22
jashton
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I own both but couldn’t bring myself to trade in my GT350 for my M2C. They are two very different cars and each has their strengths and weaknesses.

The biggest issue with the GT350 is related to oil consumption IMO. My engine went with 8,400 miles and was replaced with the revised 2019 Voodoo. Mine spun a rod bearing on the street and was never over revved. I wouldn’t touch a pre-2019 GT350 and even then, I would not buy a new one since the 2019 version hasn’t been totally proven. Warranty or not, it’s a big problem.
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