[chris719]

Originally Posted by MSurge

I’m sure the S55 can be easily modded to produce the same output as in the M4.
And it’s well known that the output of the S55 is under-stated in the M3/4.

So with the same power and less weight, the M2C will be faster than the M4!!

It will probably not weigh less than an M4. If you add 55kg to the M2 US spec weight it comes out to 1619 kg which is 2 kg more than an M4. Either way, the weight difference is negligible.

I would also expect the M4 does better aerodynamically. The M2 is a boxier shape in comparison.

I doubt it's going to be faster in a straight line, and it has narrower tires than M4 ZCP so I wouldn't expect much from lap times.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by Evil///M

Would love to know where you got this info from?

My M4 with M DCT weighs 3525 with a full tank and I have seen specs that show The M2C being the same weight with the M DCT

[Gearhead999s]

ccording to BMW DE:

1570 kg - M2 MT
1595 kg - M2 DCT

1625 kg - M2C MT
1650 kg - M2C DCT

1635 kg - M4 MT
1660 kg - M4 DCT

Canadian cars will be heavier due to the standard equipment including the large brakes which all cars will have.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

M2C lacks the M4 weight saving measures like the aluminum front clip,carbon fibre in the roof and driveshaft plus other measures to reduce the mass.But that is not unexpected in a car that is a lot cheaper.

Don't forget the CF boot lid in the M4.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Don't forget the CF boot lid in the M4.

Forgot about that!

[KristianS]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

ccording to BMW DE:

1570 kg - M2 MT
1595 kg - M2 DCT

1625 kg - M2C MT
1650 kg - M2C DCT

1635 kg - M4 MT
1660 kg - M4 DCT

Canadian cars will be heavier due to the standard equipment including the large brakes which all cars will have.

Where did you get this from? The M4 weighs 1560kg, stated here

https://www.bmw.co.uk/bmw-cars/bmw-m...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

on BMWs's website. I have original brochures for M4 and M2, they state 1572kg and 1570kg respectively. The M2C will be heavier than that. How the M2 (generic, all variants) weighs as much as an M4 is amazing. I know fundamentally they're similar but the M4 is a bigger car. Running gear is the same but there was an extra turbo on the M4, more metal and more luxurious interior! Plus, as others have said, the M2 is not very aerodynamically efficient which is why an M240i is quicker in a straight line and why an M4 will be quicker. Those new mirrors might help though......

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by KristianS

Where did you get this from? The M4 weighs 1560kg, stated here

https://www.bmw.co.uk/bmw-cars/bmw-m...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

on BMWs's website. I have original brochures for M4 and M2, they state 1572kg and 1570kg respectively. The M2C will be heavier than that. How the M2 (generic, all variants) weighs as much as an M4 is amazing. I know fundamentally they're similar but the M4 is a bigger car. Running gear is the same but there was an extra turbo on the M4, more metal and more luxurious interior! Plus, as others have said, the M2 is not very aerodynamically efficient which is why an M240i is quicker in a straight line and why an M4 will be quicker. Those new mirrors might help though......

UK unladen vs Euro curb weight(Euro numbers include 68kg driver and 7kg cargo). Those Euro numbers are correct and can be found on BMW Germany. Also different countries have different standard options. M2C unladen is 1550kg, compared to M4 unladen 1560kg.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by MSurge

The M4 has just been rendered obsolete.

You just can't type this and hit enter. I mean, you can, but something in your brain should be telling you to stop and think about it first. The only metric by which you can possibly call the M4 obsolete is if you plan for 100% of your miles to be track miles and the expectation is the M2C will be a faster track car, and that's an assumption that is premature. Only then could you even remotely say the M2C renders the M4 the wrong choice. But if 100% of your miles will be track miles, why are you dropping $60K on a car with a bunch of gadgets that only add weight but zero utility (iDrive, power windows, etc.)? Go buy something much lighter, much cheaper, and mod the hell out of it specifically for track thrashing. Once you admit that some of the driving will be on regular roads, you're crazy to call the M4 obsolete. It has a longer wheel base and different ride quality, it has dramatically better leather available, and many more colors, just to name a few obvious advantages. I just saw one in Erding, outside Munich, in Java Green with matching Green interior trim and my wife had to drag me away. Talk about sexy. If that's obsolete, I'd love to wake up tomorrow and find a big pile of obsolete sitting in my driveway.

[KristianS]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

UK unladen vs Euro curb weight(Euro numbers include 68kg driver and 7kg cargo). Those Euro numbers are correct and can be found on BMW Germany. Also different countries have different standard options. M2C unladen is 1550kg, compared to M4 unladen 1560kg.

Unladen or laden (we need to compare like for like which wasn't being done in the post I quoted), they are effectively the same weight,especially when you consider the difference in weight between drivers and fuel load! And how may drivers weigh 68kg (I'm 69kg but on average a fair bit lighter than a lot of people i Know)?!

[///M Houbi]

So had another conversation with Thomas from www.tmchiptuning.com today.

As expected the opf is not good for power. But it will work this way, EU and US cars will have slightly different ecu. In the end both will have the same power on the wheels, but the EU cars will be a tad stronger to compensate for the particulate filter.

He pointed out that BMW is lying to us either way, but in a good way. M3/M4 for example are stated to have 450hp. But in reality they do between 480hp and 490hp stock. Same will apply for the M2 competition, he‘d expect it to offer around 450hp right out of the box. It be super essy to get 500hp out of it without slightest danger for the motor.

I don‘t have in mind tuning it anyway as long as i have full warranty. But it‘s very good to know that there is a LOT of potential for the future. Especially since i plan to ride this car for at least 10y...

[Poochie]

You could have Madea riding shotgun, with the right tune and bolt ons; this car will keep up with Lambos.

I know from experience, my friend's manual N54 335i 'convertible' would utterly embarrass any performance car with just bolt ons and a COBB tune; it was quite surprising to me... #TrueStory #DontSleepOnATwinTurbo

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by KristianS

Unladen or laden (we need to compare like for like which wasn't being done in the post I quoted)

Incorrect, you quoted someone posting Euro weights. Each figure posted was 100% correct.

Originally Posted by KristianS

they are effectively the same weight,especially when you consider the difference in weight between drivers and fuel load!

No, you are quoting weights from UK site. The person you quoted was posting Euro weights that include 68kg and 7kg for each car weight listed. You are the one comparing two different weight types. Which is why you posted this question..."Where did you get this from? The M4 weighs 1560kg, stated here."

It is simple really, you are getting confused.

Euro site:
1625 kg - M2C MT
1635 kg - M4 MT

UK site:
1550 kg - M2C MT
1560 kg - M4 MT

Originally Posted by KristianS

And how may drivers weigh 68kg (I'm 69kg but on average a fair bit lighter than a lot of people i Know)?!

It doesn't matter what you weigh. You just need to compare the same type of weights, when comparing these cars. EU kerb weight is always 75kg more than DIN. The European Union adds this 75kg ballast to account for a driver and a small amount of luggage. If not comparing Euro weights, as you quoted unladen from UK for M4. You then need to use unladen for M2C, which is 1550.

[MS81]

I’m with you it’s pretty clear on weights, the M2C is less weight than the M4 and M3, it’s a comparable weight with the M4CS which is a lightweight M4....

Euro weight for the M4CS

1655kg - M4 CS DCT

I’m assuming ~30kg weight increase for DCT so this places it as the same weight as the M2C

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Incorrect, you quoted someone posting Euro weights. Each figure posted was 100% correct.


No, you are quoting weights from UK site. The person you quoted was posting Euro weights that include 68kg and 7kg for each car weight listed. You are the one comparing two different weight types. Which is why you posted this question..."Where did you get this from? The M4 weighs 1560kg, stated here."

It is simple really, you are getting confused.

Euro site:
1625 kg - M2C MT
1635 kg - M4 MT

UK site:
1550 kg - M2C MT
1560 kg - M4 MT


It doesn't matter what you weigh. You just need to compare the same type of weights, when comparing these cars. EU kerb weight is always 75kg more than DIN. The European Union adds this 75kg ballast to account for a driver and a small amount of luggage.

[alscks0414]

Figures are from BMW Canada/ USA (Same info)

F82 M4 DCT curb weight is 3,620 lb/ 6MT 3,565 lb.
M2 DCT curb weight is 3,505 lb/ 6MT 3,450 lb.
M2C DCT curb weight is 3,626 lb/ 6MT 3,571 lb. (known to be 55 kg = 121 lb heavier than M2)

M2C is heavier than M4 if I am getting right info.
N55 in M2C is detuned from N55 in M3/M4.
M3/M4 (Non ZCP) comes with 425 bhp, M2C comes with 405 bhp.

M2C (without any MP CF parts or modification) is heavier than M3/M4 and also has less power.

Edit: added 6MT weight figures

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

F82 M4 DCT curb weight is 3,620 lb.
M2 DCT curb weight is 3,505 lb.
M2C DCT curb weight is 3,626 lb (known to be 55 kg heavier than M2)

Okay M2C is heavier than M4 if I am getting right info.
N55 M2C is detuned from N55 in M3/M4.
M3/M4 (Non ZCP) comes with 425 bhp, M2C comes with 405 hp.

You are just extrapolating your own number with the generic 55kg increase. The 55KG increase is from Euro press releases. Different countries get different standard equipment. North America does not get the heavy particulate filter like Europe. Etc... There are a lot of variables. Just be patient, wait until BMW post Canada weight and/or US weight figures.

Recommendation:
Use the European standards for apples to apples comparison. For cars that lack European weights, further research is needed to determine what is included in that cars stated "Curb weight". With that said the M2C is 10kg lighter than M4, in either DIN(unladen) or EU weight.

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You are just extrapolating your own number with the generic 55kg increase. The 55KG increase is from Euro press releases. Different countries get different standard equipment. North America does not get the heavy particulate filter like Europe. Etc... There are a lot of variables. Just be patient, wait until BMW post Canada weight and/or US weight figures.

Recommendation:
Use the European standards for apples to apples comparison. For cars that lack European weights, further research is needed to determine what is included in that cars stated "Curb weight". With that said the M2C is 10kg lighter than M4, in either DIN(unladen) or EU weight.

It is anyways harder to make apple to apple comparison.
All models come different as standard.
It is true that M2C is heavier than M2 and M2 is not far from M4 weight.

[norMcal]

I thought the current M2 was pretty much on par with the M4 around Willow Springs when they did a head to head. Whatever the power advantages of the M4 where, the M2 made up with nimbler handling, not because of weight, but they speculated that it was the shorter wheel base.
That being said, would one not expect the M2C to be faster than an M4 then? At least on a windy track.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

It is anyways harder to make apple to apple comparison.
All models come different as standard.
It is true that M2C is heavier than M2 and M2 is not far from M4 weight.

What's the difference in weight between an M4 with no OPF and CF drive shaft vs M4 with OPF and steel drive shaft?

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I thought the current M2 was pretty much on par with the M4 around Willow Springs when they did a head to head. Whatever the power advantages of the M4 where, the M2 made up with nimbler handling, not because of weight, but they speculated that it was the shorter wheel base.
That being said, would one not expect the M2C to be faster than an M4 then? At least on a windy track.

Lap time winner depends on the characteristic of track.
As you said shorter in whole t distance with more windy corner will give a hand to M2 but longer t distance with more straight line featured track will give a hand to M4.

In a straight line I believe M4 (non ZCP) will still be faster than M2C stock

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by akkando

What's the difference in weight between an M4 with no OPF and CF drive shaft vs M4 with OPF and steel drive shaft?

No idea. Cannot source such info.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by akkando

What's the difference in weight between an M4 with no OPF and CF drive shaft vs M4 with OPF and steel drive shaft?

Unknown, there is a thread about the CF drive shaft on M3/M4 forum. Owners are still picking their cars up and they have CF drive shafts. BMW hasn't started fitting the particulate filter to the M4 yet. The M3 is ending production early rather than waste money retrofitting filter.

[AlpsRider]

Maybe the CF driveshaft delete has more to do with a 4 tier M line and less to do with the partical filter.