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      05-02-2019, 02:51 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
This is worse than the open vs closed deck debate of the n55.
For those who missed the 'closed deck' rap battle.

In the past an epic-esque debate raged on this forum tackling the question whether the N55B30T0 engine powering the base M2 was 'open deck' or 'closed deck'.

I had my doubts about the accuracy of official initial BMW 'closed deck' information and explained on the forum why I believed the base M2 engine to be 'open deck'. To my eyes, there was a mismatch of information. By doing so I inevitably challenged the official initial BMW information stating 'closed deck' (threads: here, here, here and here). Some forum fellows kindly commented that I got it wrong ("rather weak conjecture" as someone coined it).

The discussion seemed to be sealed after 'closed deck' confirmation by e-mail by BMWNA (when inquired by some forum fellow in order to end the forum discussion for once and for all). This 'closed deck' confirmation didn't convince me and I persisted: 'open deck'. Some lost their temper and in some way or another blamed me for not being capable of handling the (alleged) 'closed deck' truth.

And later the final answer came through: BMWNA confirmed in the end that - as I had supposed - the M2 engine is effectively 'open deck'. All 'closed deck' references have vanished from BMW M2 press releases and the BMWNA website. And, some forum fellows of the 'flat earth society' who had been rather unkind with me without merit, went quiet.

Before - twice the mistaken 'closed deck' reference (former link, now dead: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


After (former link, now re-allocated: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


M2 Competition and M2 CS, on the other hand, feature an S55 engine = closed deck engine layout.
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      05-02-2019, 06:51 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For those who missed the 'closed deck' rap battle.

In the past an epic-esque debate raged on this forum tackling the question whether the N55B30T0 engine powering the base M2 was 'open deck' or 'closed deck'.

I had my doubts about the accuracy of official initial BMW 'closed deck' information and explained on the forum why I believed the base M2 engine to be 'open deck'. To my eyes, there was a mismatch of information. By doing so I inevitably challenged the official initial BMW information stating 'closed deck' (threads: here, here, here and here). Some forum fellows kindly commented that I got it wrong ("rather weak conjecture" as someone coined it).

The discussion seemed to be sealed after 'closed deck' confirmation by e-mail by BMWNA (when inquired by some forum fellow in order to end the forum discussion for once and for all). This 'closed deck' confirmation didn't convince me and I persisted: 'open deck'. Some lost their temper and in some way or another blamed me for not being capable of handling the (alleged) 'closed deck' truth.

And later the final answer came through: BMWNA confirmed in the end that - as I had supposed - the M2 engine is effectively 'open deck'. All 'closed deck' references have vanished from BMW M2 press releases and the BMWNA website. And, some forum fellows of the 'flat earth society' who had been rather unkind with me without merit, went quiet.

Before - twice the mistaken 'closed deck' reference (former link, now dead: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


After (former link, now re-allocated: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


M2 Competition and M2 CS, on the other hand, feature an S55 engine = closed deck engine layout.
I remember this all too well. It got rather heated and quite a bit of name calling ensued. Truth be told, I was there out of curiosity and enjoying the debate, but also waiting for someone to step over the line and get banned.
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      05-02-2019, 08:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
I remember this all too well. It got rather heated and quite a bit of name calling ensued. Truth be told, I was there out of curiosity and enjoying the debate, but also waiting for someone to step over the line and get banned.
I remained composed and focused throughout those rocky rollercoaster threads, no matter what got thrown at me. And the fact that I didn't budge, apparently freaked out some folks. The night I 'murdered' the closed deck assumption of the original M2 in a sniper fashion, you could hear the sound of hearts (or egos ?) breaking in the backdrop.

At least one hyperventilating individual got a temporary ban because of his questionable 'poetry' shared with the world:
Quote:
Your a freaking idiot. plain and simple..... its closed deck.
Quote:
Its closed deck, get over it. No way they would allow a car make 400lb ft of torque to the wheels stock without having a closed deck. Do some critical thinking buddy....
And your also an idiot if you dont think they make 400 to the wheels stock.....
Quote:
When the peanut gallery dissing the car and talking out their ass for no reason leave, I will leave....
Deal?
Quote:
Dude are you serious? Go away, you don't even own an M2 and you reek of jealousy.
But we digress. Let's get back on topic.

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      05-02-2019, 08:58 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
I remember this all too well. It got rather heated and quite a bit of name calling ensued. Truth be told, I was there out of curiosity and enjoying the debate, but also waiting for someone to step over the line and get banned.
I remained composed and focused throughout those rocky rollercoaster threads, no matter what got thrown at me. And the fact that I didn't budge, apparently freaked out some folks. The night I 'murdered' the closed deck assumption of the original M2 in a sniper fashion, you could hear the sound of hearts (or egos ?) breaking in the backdrop.

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      05-02-2019, 09:00 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I remained composed and focused throughout those rocky rollercoaster threads, no matter what got thrown at me. And the fact that I didn't budge, apparently freaked out some folks. The night I 'murdered' the closed deck assumption of the original M2 in a sniper fashion, you could hear the sound of hearts (or egos ?) breaking in the backdrop.

At least one hyperventilating individual got a temporary ban because of his questionable 'poetry' shared with the world:

Quote:
Your a freaking idiot. plain and simple..... its closed deck.
Quote:
Its closed deck, get over it. No way they would allow a car make 400lb ft of torque to the wheels stock without having a closed deck. Do some critical thinking buddy....
And your also an idiot if you dont think they make 400 to the wheels stock.....
But we digress. Let's get back on topic.
LOL, yes that one I vividly recall. He deserved a ban if not for conduct for using "your" instead of "you're". Who's the idiot again?
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      05-02-2019, 09:40 PM   #72
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I love that this thread references a 1 mm difference in the thickness of the steering wheel.

I mean, I really do. We're all insane....
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      05-02-2019, 09:49 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
I love that this thread references a 1 mm difference in the thickness of the steering wheel.

I mean, I really do. We're all insane....
Let's face it, it's Freudian.
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      05-03-2019, 02:05 AM   #74
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Long thread and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before.
I think main differences you will feel when driving M2 vs M2C back to back depends on:
a. Power and power delivery. M2C has a stronger engine.
b. Steering. Mechanically this is the same, but totally reprogrammed (to the better). This was one of the main criticts of M2 OG. I recommended reprogram to M2C which is fairly easy.
c. Electronic diff. This is also reprogrammed and will really change feel when driving spiritually.
d. M2C is more heavy in the nose which might be mistaken for added stability.

Forget things like:
a. Suspension. This is just the same.
b. Front brace. Looks nice, but M2 is already stiff. It might be noticeable on a track.
c. Steering wheel. I changed from standard to M Performance Wheel. It has a nice grip, but it will just not change character of the car;-)
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      05-03-2019, 06:10 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby P View Post
There will be another thread in a few months where M2C owners will claim that it's just as quick and good as the M2/CS and so on! It's quite entertaining. Just go enjoy your car folks...wow...
I don't believe that is the spirit of this thread. This is not an M2 bash thread.

Of course the CS will be faster, the de-tune will be removed.

Shockingly, the next gen M2 will be faster than the current M2/M2C/M2CS.
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      05-03-2019, 07:13 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I don't believe that is the spirit of this thread. This is not an M2 bash thread.
I agree - for the most part I think this is a pretty reasonable debate between "the M2C must be physically different because it feels different" and "yeah but there's no evidence (in the form of different parts) of that difference).

I just want someone to lay under the back of their M2C and show me these "extra heim joints" (that, to be honest, I don't believe exist)

Edit - for the record, I searched yesterday for "fun" and I could find no reference to BMW actually stating the M2C suspension was changed in any way.
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      05-03-2019, 08:01 AM   #77
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That is because the big differences are a new engine and recoded software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
I agree - for the most part I think this is a pretty reasonable debate between "the M2C must be physically different because it feels different" and "yeah but there's no evidence (in the form of different parts) of that difference).

I just want someone to lay under the back of their M2C and show me these "extra heim joints" (that, to be honest, I don't believe exist)

Edit - for the record, I searched yesterday for "fun" and I could find no reference to BMW actually stating the M2C suspension was changed in any way.
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      05-03-2019, 08:29 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobat View Post
That is because the big differences are a new engine and recoded software.
The entire premise of some of the M2C drivers' argument is something must have changed in the suspension because the engine, CF brace, seats, and software is not enough to explain the differences.
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      05-03-2019, 08:56 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
I agree - for the most part I think this is a pretty reasonable debate between "the M2C must be physically different because it feels different" and "yeah but there's no evidence (in the form of different parts) of that difference).

I just want someone to lay under the back of their M2C and show me these "extra heim joints" (that, to be honest, I don't believe exist)

Edit - for the record, I searched yesterday for "fun" and I could find no reference to BMW actually stating the M2C suspension was changed in any way.
They won't find anything different. Undertook the methodical exercise of comparing the suspension of both cars as soon as it were made available last year, The entire suspension is exactly the same form bushings, to joints to springs and dampers. Every part number, the same. Every schematic, the same.
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      05-03-2019, 09:07 AM   #80
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And still, it just drives differently, stiffer, more compliant, less bouncy(rear axle) and a bit better turn in(carbon brace plus programmed steering I guess)

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      05-03-2019, 01:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
And still, it just drives differently, stiffer, more compliant, less bouncy(rear axle) and a bit better turn in(carbon brace plus programmed steering I guess)

Cheers
Robin
I'll chime back in here too. The ride is better. If the ride was worse, I'd be the first one to say so. FWIW, BMW NA told me over the phone that suspension tuning was "relaxed". Everyone seems to be comparing part numbers, not actual driving experiences or comparing the OG to the C on the road. And yes, I think I was one of the first to also point out the steering wheel circumference was reduced lol. Also count me among the group that would say a 100 lb weight difference will not make a significant change in ride quality. Having three people in my car doesn't somehow make the ride smoother.
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      05-03-2019, 01:56 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
The entire premise of some of the M2C drivers' argument is something must have changed in the suspension because the engine, CF brace, seats, and software is not enough to explain the differences.
How far north in CT are you? I'm on the NY/CT border if you want to compare cars.
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      05-05-2019, 01:33 AM   #83
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As I have previously posted, I have owned both a 2017 M2 and 2019 M2C. I have taken both to Laguna Seca. The M2C handles better, the steering is more responsive and turn ins are very precise. The throttle response is faster and the S55 put power down sooner. For example, coming out of Turn 11 (sharp hairpin), I can accelerate as soon as I straighten out the wheel and I'm going well above 110 at start/finish line. And don't get me going about the brakes, I took the M2 to Laguna Seca twice and I warped 2 sets of front rotors; the M2C brakes didn't even squeak after a full day of 5 tracks sessions. The M2C is a better M car in every way. Both M2s are factory stock w/6 speed.
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      05-05-2019, 01:52 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyL128 View Post
As I have previously posted, I have owned both a 2017 M2 and 2019 M2C. I have taken both to Laguna Seca. The M2C handles better, the steering is more responsive and turn ins are very precise. The throttle response is faster and the S55 put power down sooner. For example, coming out of Turn 11 (sharp hairpin), I can accelerate as soon as I straighten out the wheel and I'm going well above 110 at start/finish line. And don't get me going about the brakes, I took the M2 to Laguna Seca twice and I warped 2 sets of front rotors; the M2C brakes didn't even squeak after a full day of 5 tracks sessions. The M2C is a better M car in every way. Both M2s are factory stock w/6 speed.
I’ve driven both as well and I call BS - just another person trying to justify their purchase .
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      05-05-2019, 09:03 AM   #85
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I’ve driven both as well and I call BS - just another person trying to justify their purchase .
His experience seems based in reality, though.
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      05-05-2019, 09:44 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D22M2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyL128 View Post
As I have previously posted, I have owned both a 2017 M2 and 2019 M2C. I have taken both to Laguna Seca. The M2C handles better, the steering is more responsive and turn ins are very precise. The throttle response is faster and the S55 put power down sooner. For example, coming out of Turn 11 (sharp hairpin), I can accelerate as soon as I straighten out the wheel and I'm going well above 110 at start/finish line. And don't get me going about the brakes, I took the M2 to Laguna Seca twice and I warped 2 sets of front rotors; the M2C brakes didn't even squeak after a full day of 5 tracks sessions. The M2C is a better M car in every way. Both M2s are factory stock w/6 speed.
I've driven both as well and I call BS - just another person trying to justify their purchase .
"I've driven both" is very different from owning both and driving both at decent track like Laguna Seca. So I'm going to go with that guy until you can provide something more substantive.

The same can be said for you, just another OG M2 justifying over paying for a car that was made better a year later. Funny how that works...
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      05-05-2019, 11:33 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
His experience seems based in reality, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
"I've driven both" is very different from owning both and driving both at decent track like Laguna Seca. So I'm going to go with that guy until you can provide something more substantive.

The same can be said for you, just another OG M2 justifying over paying for a car that was made better a year later. Funny how that works...
Agreed. We have an OG M2 and an F80 ZCP - I can't speak to the different in "feel" because the cars are physically different, but I can speak to the differences in the engines. They both have their respective positives and negatives, but there's no doubt that the S55 is much more potent, and much faster.
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      05-06-2019, 02:09 PM   #88
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Since this thread is pointless and has been likened to a rap battle by Artemis all I’m going to add is

Fuck the S55 and the clique you claim
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