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      04-30-2019, 01:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post


I've been braying since this claim of a difference "feel" between both vehicle started.

Yet M2C owners are adamant that the parts operation somehow "changed" but not the part numbers.

Tell me, why would they do that? Did they run out new digits to generate a revised part numbers? :
Don't really want to get into the whole M2 versus M2C, but I can speak to inventory control. Frankly we don't know how BMW manages their internal inventory. I think there can be some credence to revised parts getting the same part number, especially if it's really close in design. Our organization does the same (not car industry, but consumer goods manufacturing).

1. UPC/EANs ranges need to be purchased. So constantly issuing new UPC/EAN for parts that have minor revisions can get expensive. For one part number it won't be a big deal but something that might have a BOM as extensive as auto manufacturing, it'll add up. Honestly it's not as buttoned up as people think. We constantly have a problem where someone uses a UPC that was already issued to us or we accidentally use someone else's. Limiting part numbers for minor changes reduces the chance of this happening.
2. Part numbers aren't the only way to distinguish identity. Many WMS systems have different layers of control. There are concepts such as "package codes/owners" among others. My organization use this for parts that are designated for different projects and applications. This could make sense especially if the follow up question when asking for a part number is "which car/platform is this for?".
3. There could be a concept of phase in/phase out where one part number with minor revisions supplant the old one. This is more commonly referred to as a running change.

I can go on and on, but point is we really don't know unless someone can speak to BMW's inventory control. Could be one of the reasons above but it could also be there is no change. Just thought I would point that out. I'm taking a neutral stand here
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      04-30-2019, 01:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post


I can go on and on, but point is we really don't know unless someone can speak to BMW's inventory control. Could be one of the reasons above but it could also be there is no change. Just thought I would point that out. I'm taking a neutral stand here
Thank you for taking the time to share this explanation and you're probably right. However, BMW changes parts number all the time, even for a simple screw or a bolt that has no mechanical change but maybe a slight increase in the original MSRP price difference. Go to RealOEM and you'll see dates parts where discontinued and the part number that supersedes it, for the same item.

I know this for a fact because I've made discussion threads verifying this before.

I guess we're at this crossroad where we have to agree to disagree on this subject until someone else has some tangible proof there was indeed a mechanical change.

Here's an example; a .65 cent nut, same part, new part number.
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      04-30-2019, 02:06 PM   #25
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so much misinformation or disinformation

it will change nothing if I know but yet I would still like to know.
There is physical evidence in the part numbers not changing and a bunch of contradictory subjective opinion that there are significant changes.

I'm leaning towards believing the physical evidence but I want to believe there's meaningful changes, bring on more opinions please
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      04-30-2019, 02:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Sounds like there's some conflation over ride comfort vs handling. Some are commenting that the M2c handles better than the M2. It should, it's been stiffened up more in front as well as well as having the steering and MDM remapped.

The other side of this is ride comfort, some say that the M2c rides the same while others say they notice it's a bit smoother than the M2.

What we know:
  • M2 and M2c suspension components are all identical and have identical part numbers.
  • M2c weighs more than the M2.
  • M2c front is stiffer with the added bulk head brace and CFRP strut brace.
Make your own conclusions.
I'm surprised that BMW didn't change any of the front suspension components with the M2C having a different (heavier) engine. That's assuming that the engine is in fact heavier. Wouldn't it make sense to at least have different spring rates up front?
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      04-30-2019, 03:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedConsciousness View Post
Aren't there multiple reviews online saying they changed the suspension tuning?
Yes, plus a number of forum members who have owned both and corroborated as much. It pretty much always boils down to an argument about whether or not a part can change without the part number changing (like it has with the steering wheel).
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      04-30-2019, 03:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not sure that's how it works in engineering; those guys by design, are anal about having precise specs, any variations alters their carefully calculated projected outcome.

All due respect, do you proof of this claim? A link or even a book you can suggest to back this up. I'm all for absorbing new information.
The steering wheels have the same part numbers but are physically different thickness when you measure them.
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      04-30-2019, 04:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not sure that's how it works in engineering; those guys by design, are anal about having precise specs, any variations alters their carefully calculated projected outcome.

All due respect, do you proof of this claim? A link or even a book you can suggest to back this up. I'm all for absorbing new information.
The steering wheels have the same part numbers but are physically different thickness when you measure them.
Yes, I saw that and it also makes little sense but it is a cosmetic part, so a change like that would not be detrimental if alternating it from one model to another, as oppose to mechanical suspension components, which works in tandem with other current replacement components and create the overall feel and handling of the vehicle.

Perhaps the manufacture just added less padding material that the steering wheel is made out of and didn't feel it warranted a change in part number.

Which is weird because Porsche charges you more for their 380mm, larger girth steering wheel, while BMW is shrinking their's for free, without any notification. :

Last edited by Poochie; 04-30-2019 at 06:55 PM..
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      04-30-2019, 09:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
So how does it work when someone cracks their suspension in an OG M2 and a replacement part needs to be ordered? You're telling me that their new front left is better than their OG front right?
BMW will tell you both need to be replaced. You would never only replace one strut or suspension component on any car.
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      04-30-2019, 09:44 PM   #31
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I have/ had both cars. The comp rides more smoothly. BMW NA told me the suspension has been tuned and is more compliant. The ride is better, no question. Anybody that's driven them back to back will know. The weight did not make the difference. I weigh 160, not sure the guy who weighs 250 gets a better ride.
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      04-30-2019, 09:48 PM   #32
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Oh, and I did a YouTube review of the car comparing it to the OG a while ago. Please check it out.
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      04-30-2019, 09:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
So how does it work when someone cracks their suspension in an OG M2 and a replacement part needs to be ordered? You're telling me that their new front left is better than their OG front right?
BMW will tell you both need to be replaced. You would never only replace one strut or suspension component on any car.
So all I need to do with an OG M2 is mess up my suspension to get the new M2C suspension? That doesn't seem right.
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      04-30-2019, 10:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
So how does it work when someone cracks their suspension in an OG M2 and a replacement part needs to be ordered? You're telling me that their new front left is better than their OG front right?
Well, they would say "part number X for a <=2018 M2" instead of "part number X for a 2019 M2". The year can be a qualifier too, you know.
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      05-01-2019, 01:31 AM   #35
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Just doing my part to keep the debate going.




EU N55 M2




US N55 M2




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      05-01-2019, 01:36 AM   #36
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I'm pretty sure EPS tuning, the seats ( big difference IMO ), weight balance difference ( has anyone corner weighed the M2C vs M2? ) and subtle geometry changes ( alignment ) accounts for most of the differences.

personally I'm in the boat that the M2C drives notably different than the OG M2... but I can't quite put my finger on it.

The stock damper/springs are still kinda meh though in comparison to my OG M2 with the Mperformance coils.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the front-end rigidity, and the seats accounting for how much different the car drives.

Remember the M2 chassis is *VERY* stinking stiff, any subtle changes can affect how the chassis behaves. Weight balance, EPS tuning, etc.
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      05-01-2019, 01:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
I'm pretty sure EPS tuning, the seats ( big difference IMO ), weight balance difference ( has anyone corner weighed the M2C vs M2? ) and subtle geometry changes ( alignment ) accounts for most of the differences.

personally I'm in the boat that the M2C drives notably different than the OG M2... but I can't quite put my finger on it.

The stock damper/springs are still kinda meh though in comparison to my OG M2 with the Mperformance coils.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the front-end rigidity, and the seats accounting for how much different the car drives.

Remember the M2 chassis is *VERY* stinking stiff, any subtle changes can affect how the chassis behaves. Weight balance, EPS tuning, etc.
Don't have any seat time in the M2c yet (soon to change), but willing to bet the stiffened front end, added weight and remapped steering/chassis tuning is what differentiate the two. If I take 2 or more psi out of my tires I notice a major difference, yet you'd think that was such a minimal change that you wouldn't notice a thing.
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      05-01-2019, 06:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
The dampers are different for the Competition.. They have the initials "CS" listed in RealOEM.com and we know the CS has Adaptive Dampers, these are static..

Different dampers I guess could account for the difference in handling.. Plus all the other fine tuning that was done to accommodate a more robust motor..

We just need a proper part list to put an end to this charade.. But don't see why this RealOEM listing wouldn't be accurate..

Euro version/ Right hand drive:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=51118073512
You might want to take a look at what shock absorber you're looking at. that part# is part of the bumper http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...71#51118073512

In fact, none of the "shock absorbers" you posted in https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=36 are actually suspension components.
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      05-01-2019, 06:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
The dampers are different for the Competition.. They have the initials "CS" listed in RealOEM.com and we know the CS has Adaptive Dampers, these are static..

Different dampers I guess could account for the difference in handling.. Plus all the other fine tuning that was done to accommodate a more robust motor..

We just need a proper part list to put an end to this charade.. But don't see why this RealOEM listing wouldn't be accurate..

Euro version/ Right hand drive:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...;q=51118073512
You might want to take a look at what shock absorber you're looking at. that part# is part of the bumper http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...71#51118073512
Oh damn, you right. I could of sworn it was the suspension dampers. I guess that's a big my bad.

Thanks.. I tried.. :
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      05-01-2019, 06:42 AM   #40
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but who tF cares? you guys are too scared to race a STi. does that small difference in suspension bolt make you sleep better?
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      05-01-2019, 06:52 AM   #41
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but who tF cares? you guys are too scared to race a STi. does that small difference in suspension bolt make you sleep better?
😂 😂
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      05-01-2019, 08:03 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Yes, I saw that and it also makes little sense but it is a cosmetic part, so a change like that would not be detrimental if alternating it from one model to another, as oppose to mechanical suspension components, which works in tandem with other current replacement components and create the overall feel and handling of the vehicle.

Perhaps the manufacture just added less padding material that the steering wheel is made out of and didn't feel it warranted a change in part number.

Which is weird because Porsche charges you more for their 380mm, larger girth steering wheel, while BMW is shrinking their's for free, without any notification. :
I think the "cosmetic" aspect of your rebuttal makes little difference - at the end of the day, it does appear as though BMW keeps part numbers the same while some aspect of the "newer" part can be different in reality.

I find it hard to believe that there's an internal distinction between different categories of parts, but I could be wrong of course.

Haven't had the chance to drive the M2C yet - really excited for M town, because I can drive our OG M2 and F80 right before the M2C. Should be a nice basis for comparison.
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      05-01-2019, 08:06 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
So all I need to do with an OG M2 is mess up my suspension to get the new M2C suspension? That doesn't seem right.
Apparently, to make an M2 handle as well as an M2C, all you have to do is put the black M2C badges on the car... because of the placebo effect.

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      05-01-2019, 08:21 AM   #44
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Wife has OG M2, I have an M2C. The M2C does feel slightly different, not sure what exactly it is, although hers is DCT and mine is manual.

Ill see if I can do a better comparison at some point.
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