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      04-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
At last, the cat's in.



Crossing my fingers that BMW M has the balls to release next year the athletic CSL sibling *all* enthusiasts want to see. Some German sources reported that it has been developed - all it takes is the green light from BMW management.

I don't believe that it's completely developed. It probably would've been if BMW had fewer things to do.

Also, nobody knows if it will be the CSL or GTS. Maybe the guys working on the car think it is the GTS because that's what the "Special" cars have been called recently. Maybe BMW will change that to CSL later on.

There are no M2 CSL/GTS (front and rear) badges either. Not yet at least.

We also do not know if it will eventually get the green light or not once fully developed. So many unknowns still...

What is clear is the following:
1, BMW M2 Competition is the new base and not really "special",
2, BMW M2 Competition is not lighter (Probably intentionally) and there is scope for making it lighter (Lesser sound deadening, no rear seats, lighter front seats, CF Roof and some other stuff ),
3, There is room to easily increase S55 engine output which people will do if BMW does not do it themselves,
4, The pricing of the M2 Competition is not competing with cars like the GT4,
5, The M2 still does not have a cult following like what the M3 got with the CSLs and GTSs,

Points 4 and 5 I think are very significant. The M2 still does not have the reputation that the M3 has... or rather had.

To really get that reputation, I think BMW will need to build a halo car that punches way above it's weight. The E30, E46 CSL all did this. The M2 is a great car as most people have mentioned but it still isn't the giant killer that made some of the earlier M3s so desirable.

I really think BMW will need to build such a car to establish the M2 similar to the M3 and somewhat guarantee a long term supply of new customers who will be drawn in by the lower starting price.

Porsche will mostly put in the de-tuned 4.0L naturally aspirated motor from the GT3 in the next GT4. I really think and honestly hope that BMW tries to compete against this. The engineers probably know how to do it. I just hope BMW let's them do their job.

Edit: Artemis, M3 Adjuster : Do you really like the shape of the wing on the M2 racing ? I think that would look ugly on the M2. I really hope BMW spends some money and tries to develop the wing to flow with the shape of the car. Nothing to read between the lines here BTW.

Last edited by Gatte; 04-13-2018 at 04:52 PM..
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      04-13-2018, 04:31 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
121 lbs. HEAVIER? Wow. So does anybody here think what the M2 desperately needed to be a better car was more power AND more weight? I don't think it needed either.
Newer M cars are heavy regardless of the size. It's just reality. I've accepted it because somehow the weight is disguised through driving dynamics. Regardless, a ~3100 lb. M2 CSL concept gives me a semi.
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      04-13-2018, 04:38 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Base M2 is outta here as of MY 2019.
So the F87's life span looks like this then:

2016-2017 M2

2018 M2 (LCI)

2019-2020 M2C

And then a G series 2er will replace it I guess
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      04-13-2018, 04:39 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by andrewc89 View Post
So the F87's life span looks like this then:

2016-2017 M2

2018 M2 (LCI)

2019-2020 M2C

And then a G series 2er will replace it I guess
2020 CSL as a crescendo? Gatte is currently raining on my parade though
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      04-13-2018, 04:42 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Newer M cars are heavy regardless of the size. It's just reality. I've accepted it because somehow the weight is disguised through driving dynamics. Regardless, a ~3100 lb. M2 CSL concept gives me a semi.
F80 is lighter than E90.

This is all about emissions.
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      04-13-2018, 04:42 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Does anyone know if the common crank hub failure in the s55 is fixed by now?? I know this was an issue before and I hope BMW fixed it and will be a non issue in the M2.
No. That's why the M2 Comp is so cheap - BMW ran out of development money.

(Seriously, haven't heard the issue come up for awhile...)
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      04-13-2018, 04:47 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
F80 is lighter than E90.

This is all about emissions.
CF roof and driveshaft (model years '15, '16, '17) also. '18 owners get "shafted".
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      04-13-2018, 04:48 PM   #228
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Lol

Weight up 55kilos. WTF.

I guess competition is weight gain competition. I love how they add BS wight from engine cooling too. Crazy marketing! Chug the koolaid
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      04-13-2018, 04:50 PM   #229
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Not exactly sure how I missed this thread before it reached 11 pages!... but I think the biggest and best news about this upgrade is that we won't have to see anymore posts about the car not having a "real" M S## engine, "real" M mirrors and "real" M seats.

But of course we'll instead focus on new new world problems like the exhaust sound and weight gain

THANK YOU BMW!
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      04-13-2018, 04:52 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
121 lbs. HEAVIER? Wow. So does anybody here think what the M2 desperately needed to be a better car was more power AND more weight? I don't think it needed either.
If you drive faster than 80 mph it needs more power

But it also needs M buttons I think.
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      04-13-2018, 04:53 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
But of course we'll instead focus on new new world problems like the exhaust sound and weight gain

THANK YOU BMW!
Weight gain and resulting exhaust problems are real real word problems BTW.

Get it ? Get it ??
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      04-13-2018, 04:53 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
F80 is lighter than E90.

This is all about emissions.
CF roof and driveshaft (model years '15, '16, '17) also. '18 owners get "shafted".
All F80s will have the carbon driveshaft hence the reason why BMW is stopping production this year.
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      04-13-2018, 04:55 PM   #233
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There won't be M buttons?
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      04-13-2018, 04:56 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Weight up 55kilos. WTF.
I guess competition is weight gain competition. I love how they add BS weight from engine cooling too. Crazy marketing! Chug the koolaid
"S55" just got itself an extra meaning: "Supplementary 55 kg".
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      04-13-2018, 04:57 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Blown away that the price increase is so low. Ultimately this will somewhat dent original M2 prices. Still it does seem that this is just a setup for what is coming. Pricing and the lack of certain M features leave lots of room for something above the M2 comp.

Since BMW appears to be replacing the M2 with the M2 comp... I'm not blown away by the pricing difference as there is precedent than manufacturer initiated engine changes do not significantly change MSRP.

There is not much precedent from BMW ever to jack up the price due to a motor change.. model year change.. etc.. The M2 began at 52K.. and has crept up to 54,500 recently.. Another modest annual bump puts it around 55-56K more than likely..


I also do NOT think that Standard M2 pricing will be affected much (other than the vehicles currently on dealer lots) once again.. because of precedent.

Does a 1995 M3 have less significantly less value than an 1966-99 model?

Does the 01-02 S54 M Roadster carrier a significantly higher value than 99-00 S52 model.. ? if the price delta for this item is in the 2-4K area... that basically is about the same increase as the typical price increase adjustment year to year.






It all makes sense regarding the absence of significant price drops for the current M2 due to the release of a better new model. But regarding a small M2 Competition price increase being inline with precedent, is there really a precedent in the release of a Competition version, not a package (it's even on the badge)? Seems to be a new thing for BMW. Isn't it? I wonder if that would make things any different regarding price changes .
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      04-13-2018, 05:01 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by swifty View Post
There won't be M buttons?
The M2 Competition does not feature the Adaptive M Suspension (BMW code 2VF) but does feature 1 and 2 driving mode buttons on the steering wheel.

Excerpt from one of the leaked M2 Competition pictures:
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      04-13-2018, 05:03 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Weight up 55kilos. WTF.
I guess competition is weight gain competition. I love how they add BS wight from engine cooling too. Crazy marketing! Chug the koolaid
"S55" just got itself an extra meaning: "Supplementary 55 kg".
It already went up by that much from the 1M to regular M2 now another 55k plus call it competition. It's crazy.

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      04-13-2018, 05:04 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
"S55" just got itself an extra meaning: "Supplementary 55 kg".
Clever
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      04-13-2018, 05:10 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
It all makes sense regarding the absence of significant price drops for the current M2 due to the release of a better new model. But regarding a small M2 Competition price increase being inline with precedent, is there really a precedent in the release of a Competition version, not a package (it's even on the badge)? Seems to be a new thing for BMW. Isn't it? I wonder if that would make things any different regarding price changes .
no there isn't... but since we are rev reviewing precedents.. I wonder if the " internal name " of M2 comp simply just becomes "2019 M2" as the vehicle comes to production... then that puts it back in line with some of the prior models that have had major motor changes like the e36 m3 and the M roadster.

As far as the N55 vs S55... there clearly are fans of both... Much like the E36 M3 with the OBD-1 1995 M3 vs the 1996 and up OBD-II models. There were minor differences in torque output and the motor went from 3.0 to 3.2L. in an effort to " provide more torque for the American market " since we didn't get the full monte motor with individual throttle bodies.


One non M model that DOES enjoy a decent value bump still is the E46 330 ZHP cars vs the non ZHP models. The ZHP did have a better interior with alcantara bits , as well as better looking front bumpers and a rear spoiler and unique wheels as exterior appearance items along with a very minor 10 hp bump...
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      04-13-2018, 05:11 PM   #240
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You guys are sweating the small stuff; that extra turbo will more than make up for the weight increase...

BMW Engineers: Additional weight? Just add more boost.
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      04-13-2018, 05:13 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
2020 CSL as a crescendo? Gatte is currently raining on my parade though
he hates me too....
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      04-13-2018, 05:14 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunil_linus View Post
You guys are sweating the small stuff; that extra turbo will more than make up for the weight increase...

BMW Engineers: Additional weight? Just add more boost.
Adding more M POWAH to offset MORE WEIGHT since the E46 ....
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