[Artemis]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

This. The carbon issue and the cars being available in Europe is why I finally decided to pull out for a 2nd and final time. I wonÂ’t accept a 90k car with carbon imperfections at that level- hopefully theyÂ’ve addressed it enough so the individuals that got earlier build weeks are satisfied with their purchase.
2nd- cars being available overseas and taking discounts is also why. Listen; if you want to secure that perfect spec then go for it. If IÂ’m lucky enough to find a misano blue with manual in a few months on even a 5 or ten percent discount, IÂ’d take it. But I couldnÂ’t do msrp and taxes and then hear about such QC issues. If it was happening to paint everyone would be complaining.
This car at msrp was a gamble- if you just wanted it without question then more power to you- but I couldnÂ’t do it. If I was purchasing this vehicle cash to add to my fleet sure, but as a primary vehicle on a finance how well the car performs in 3 - 5 years in the used market will dictate how long you have to keep the car and whether or not youÂ’re even upside down on a finance.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Is the M2 CS worth the MSRP ? No. Will the M2 CS "hold its value" as a great car ? Yes.

In other words: the M2 CS will definitely remain highly regarded among petrolheads, but will not be considered worth the MSRP. A greatly estimated ("halo"), but clearly overpriced ("hell no"), car. Let's keep that distinction in mind to better understand most controversy about the M2 CS.

Buying the M2 CS at MSRP or - even worse - with a markup, is essentially an emotional driven choice mainly devoid of monetary considerations: "I want this. Period.". Desire as a sylph figured creature playing the heart strings one by one.

So don't worry, if you lust for an M2 CS but you refuse to play the immodest price-tag game, you will find one with a more modest price-tag in the future. Rather say "See you later" than "Goodbye".

Originally Posted by Artemis

I could be mistaken, but it looks like the US got allocated more M2 CS than initially scheduled.
Sales of the 1M was a totally different story (2011-2012): initially 2700 were scheduled, but demand in 2011 turned out so high that BMW decided to make as many as possible, ramping up production in September 2011, all the way till June 2012: 6309 cars. The US got 740 cars (2011 only). And in the end not all demand could be met due to production capacity limitations. Demand for the 1M also remained strong afterwards, explaining the unusually high resale price for the 1M, even today.
In contrast, M2 CS demand is lukewarm over here. It's a hard seller. The reason has been discussed to death: people like the M2 CS (no doubt about that, it is a cool piece of kit), but dislike the immodest price-tag (compared to the 1M, OG M2 and M2C). Several 0 mile / low mile M2 CS start popping up on car sales websites in Europe, and most of the ads flaunt the "limited edition" tag-line (see for example here). The coin flippers breed is hoping for a frenzy, which is not gonna happen (just like it didn't happen for the M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS).

Originally Posted by Artemis

One of the comments under that M2 CS article:

"Worst car purchase I ever made: 2016 BMW M4 GTS, while it's a monster car, the price fell out from under it, like most BMW's. Sticker price of $135,000 for a "limited run" M4 GTS of 300, did not help hold the value. I sold it with very low miles for $77,500. Many on ebay in mid $70's, now, that are essentially new. Make sure you like the M2, cuz there will be no re-sale market."

[Bimmed Out]

The irony of this review is not lost on me. Although this reviewer doesn't mean to do so, he inadvertently makes a good case for the M2 CS as a value proposition. Starting at 19:14, the reviewer talks about how you could buy an M2 Competition for a good bit less and then try to replicate the M2 CS (not happening) by modding the M2C out the wazoo. You could add the tires, the wheels, the numerous carbon bits (spoiler, splitter, hood, mirrors, etc.), steering wheel and so forth. And then the reviewer admits you end up with an M2C that is not far off in price from the M2 CS! The problems with this alternative approach ares manifold. First, if you go this route, you have an M2 CS wannabe (highly modded M2C) and not an M2 CS. You still don't have the adaptive suspension, carbon fiber roof, tune, etc., etc., despite owning one of the most expensive M2C's imaginable. Second, if you are obsessed with depreciation and resale value, as it seems some here are, you are really going to get cooked with your M2 CS wannabe because if there is one truth in the used car market it's that modification expenses are sunk costs -- that is, you don't get your mod money back on resale. Third, no matter how much money you throw at the M2C, you won't be able to buy the exclusivity of the M2 CS. Exclusivity matters to some more than others, of course, but I, for one, prefer to own sports cars that are not a dime a dozen on the track, road, C&C, etc., as this does affect one's sense of how special a car is. Fourth, you have the problem that the reviewer himself points out -- you've now spent nearly as much as that M2 CS price tag that upset you so much in the first place. So while this review's concluding remarks may appear on their face rather negative toward the M2 CS, if you stop and think about his argument, it's actually (and paradoxically) quite favorable to the M2 CS.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by BishUK

Also, be fair to MR he does live in a country where the CS is somewhat ridiculously priced at €108K. He did say if it was positioned in the c€85-€90k bracket (like a lot of other EU markets, including the UK) then it would be more of a one way 'take my money conversation'.

Dont think so, believe that base price in many EU country was around 95 K... then if you add the ceramics plus few options you are around 105K

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by kepler

The irony of this review is not lost on me. Although this reviewer doesn't mean to do so, he inadvertently makes a good case for the M2 CS as a value proposition. Starting at 19:14, the reviewer talks about how you could buy an M2 Competition for a good bit less and then try to replicate the M2 CS (not happening) by modding the M2C out the wazoo. You could add the tires, the wheels, the numerous carbon bits (spoiler, splitter, hood, mirrors, etc.), steering wheel and so forth. And then the reviewer admits you end up with an M2C that is not far off in price from the M2 CS! The problems with this alternative approach ares manifold. First, if you go this route, you have an M2 CS wannabe (highly modded M2C) and not an M2 CS. You still don't have the adaptive suspension, carbon fiber roof, tune, etc., etc., despite owning one of the most expensive M2C's imaginable. Second, if you are obsessed with depreciation and resale value, as it seems some here are, you are really going to get cooked with your M2 CS wannabe because if there is one truth in the used car market it's that modification expenses are sunk costs -- that is, you don't get your mod money back on resale. Third, no matter how much money you throw at the M2C, you won't be able to buy the exclusivity of the M2 CS. Exclusivity matters to some more than others, of course, but I, for one, prefer to own sports cars that are not a dime a dozen on the track, road, C&C, etc., as this does affect one's sense of how special a car is. Fourth, you have the problem that the reviewer himself points out -- you've now spent nearly as much as that M2 CS price tag that upset you so much in the first place. So while this review's concluding remarks may appear on their face rather negative toward the M2 CS, if you stop and think about his argument, it's actually (and paradoxically) quite favorable to the M2 CS.

Agreed with your analysis.
For me though the M2CS makes little sense because I personally do not value any of those carbon bits and the driving feel remains relatively similar to the M2C. Yes the adaptative suspension is more compliant, a plus for a DD, but is it really what you expect/want on the supposedly sportiest version of the M2.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by kepler

The irony of this review is not lost on me. Although this reviewer doesn't mean to do so, he inadvertently makes a good case for the M2 CS as a value proposition. Starting at 19:14, the reviewer talks about how you could buy an M2 Competition for a good bit less and then try to replicate the M2 CS (not happening) by modding the M2C out the wazoo. You could add the tires, the wheels, the numerous carbon bits (spoiler, splitter, hood, mirrors, etc.), steering wheel and so forth. And then the reviewer admits you end up with an M2C that is not far off in price from the M2 CS! The problems with this alternative approach ares manifold. First, if you go this route, you have an M2 CS wannabe (highly modded M2C) and not an M2 CS. You still don't have the adaptive suspension, carbon fiber roof, tune, etc., etc., despite owning one of the most expensive M2C's imaginable. Second, if you are obsessed with depreciation and resale value, as it seems some here are, you are really going to get cooked with your M2 CS wannabe because if there is one truth in the used car market it's that modification expenses are sunk costs -- that is, you don't get your mod money back on resale. Third, no matter how much money you throw at the M2C, you won't be able to buy the exclusivity of the M2 CS. Exclusivity matters to some more than others, of course, but I, for one, prefer to own sports cars that are not a dime a dozen on the track, road, C&C, etc., as this does affect one's sense of how special a car is. Fourth, you have the problem that the reviewer himself points out -- you've now spent nearly as much as that M2 CS price tag that upset you so much in the first place. So while this review's concluding remarks may appear on their face rather negative toward the M2 CS, if you stop and think about his argument, it's actually (and paradoxically) quite favorable to the M2 CS.

The slight fallacy here is thinking that everyone that would buy an M2C would want everything from the M2CS... Fundamentally thinking about my M2C, the only thing that remotely interests me from the M2CS is the tune (which can be done for $500) and the 763M wheels which have been available on an M2C since day one. The M perf coilovers will still be better than the M2CS adap suspension and putting those into an M2cs will be more difficult... outside of that we are talking strictly about cosmetics costing an extra $20K... i don't see the value proposition there because I see next to no value in a CF hood for $6K or bmw's other far overpriced CF pieces.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Agreed with your analysis.
For me though the M2CS makes little sense because I personally do not value any of those carbon bits and the driving feel remains relatively similar to the M2C. Yes the adaptative suspension is more compliant, a plus for a DD, but is it really what you expect/want on the supposedly sportiest version of the M2.

The M2 CS is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people. I think the M2 Competition makes far more sense for most people interested in some M2 variant.

Originally Posted by ASAP

The slight fallacy here is thinking that everyone that would buy an M2C would want everything from the M2CS... Fundamentally thinking about my M2C, the only thing that remotely interests me from the M2CS is the tune (which can be done for $500) and the 763M wheels which have been available on an M2C since day one. The M perf coilovers will still be better than the M2CS adap suspension and putting those into an M2cs will be more difficult... outside of that we are talking strictly about cosmetics costing an extra $20K... i don't see the value proposition there because I see next to no value in a CF hood for $6K or bmw's other far overpriced CF pieces.

No fallacy, sorry. I was just following the reviewer's own line of argument and pointing out its paradoxical nature. Like I said above, the M2 CS is not for most folks interested in an M2 variant. In fact, it clearly makes no sense for an enthusiast like you. And that's fine. In fact, that's great, because you can take advantage of the M2C and enjoy the heck out of it for notably less money.

However, for those enthusiasts who do like what comes with an M2 CS -- and I think there are many of us, including those who will pass simply because they believe the price is too high -- it may be evident that the reviewer does a good job of pointing out the M2 CS's value, despite his efforts to accomplish the opposite.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The slight fallacy here is thinking that everyone that would buy an M2C would want everything from the M2CS... Fundamentally thinking about my M2C, the only thing that remotely interests me from the M2CS is the tune (which can be done for $500) and the 763M wheels which have been available on an M2C since day one. The M perf coilovers will still be better than the M2CS adap suspension and putting those into an M2cs will be more difficult... outside of that we are talking strictly about cosmetics costing an extra $20K... i don't see the value proposition there because I see next to no value in a CF hood for $6K or bmw's other far overpriced CF pieces.

I think you answered the question. The M2CS isn't being bought as a "value" in the monetary sense as suggested. Value is a relative quantity because everyone places value differently. In your situation I believe it would not be the right choice because of where you place value. Tune, 763m, cup2s, and coilovers would be significantly less expensive than CS and be fantastic.

For contrast I place value in the CS adaptive suspension, merino leather, m4 comp seats, carbon roof, lower production number, alcantara additions to interior, factory tune with warranty, factory option gold wheels. Notice that track performance is not on my radar for desirability.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people. I think the M2 Competition makes far more sense for most people interested in some M2 variant.

No fallacy, sorry. I was just following the reviewer's own line of argument and pointing out its paradoxical nature. Like I said above, the M2 CS is not for most folks interested in an M2 variant. In fact, it clearly makes no sense for an enthusiast like you. And that's fine. In fact, that's great, because you can take advantage of the M2C and enjoy the heck out of it for notably less money.

However, for those enthusiasts who do like what comes with an M2 CS -- and I think there are many of us, including those who will pass simply because they believe the price is too high -- it may be evident that the reviewer does a good job of pointing out the M2 CS's value, despite his efforts to accomplish the opposite.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I think you answered the question. The M2CS isn't being bought as a "value" in the monetary sense as suggested. Value is a relative quantity because everyone places value differently. In your situation I believe it would not be the right choice because of where you place value. Tune, 763m, cup2s, and coilovers would be significantly less expensive than CS and be fantastic.

For contrast I place value in the CS adaptive suspension, merino leather, m4 comp seats, carbon roof, lower production number, alcantara additions to interior, factory tune with warranty, factory option gold wheels. Notice that track performance is not on my radar for desirability.

I agree with you both... i love the CS for what it is, it just isn't for everyone. There are some special bits in it that I do like, namely the more expensive leather and misano blue color. I too am not looking for a track as I have my fun on the street and in that instance every piece of lightweight carbon, carbon ceramic brakes and ps cup tires may not matter as much.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I agree with you both... i love the CS for what it is, it just isn't for everyone. There are some special bits in it that I do like, namely the more expensive leather and misano blue color. I too am not looking for a track as I have my fun on the street and in that instance every piece of lightweight carbon, carbon ceramic brakes and ps cup tires may not matter as much.

Don't understand why the Merino leather on the CS is not also covering the doors and dashboard. Then it would have been a great upgrade.
On the M2C both the Dakota leather and the door / dashboard look bad but they somewhat match. On the M2 CS the fine grain Merino leather clash imo with the gross appearance of the door/dasboard...a little bit like the large mesh carbon fiber roof and other fine mesh carbon fiber bits.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Don't understand why the Merino leather on the CS is not also covering the doors and dashboard. Then it would have been a great upgrade.
On the M2C both the Dakota leather and the door / dashboard look bad but they somewhat match. On the M2 CS the fine grain Merino leather clash imo with the gross appearance of the door/dasboard...a little bit like the large mesh carbon fiber roof and other fine mesh carbon fiber bits.

Agree with this. On such a low run it doesn't seem like it would have been an very costly to use merino or sensatec on dash and doors instead of the plastic. Guessing to low of a run to put in the effort for patterns.

[yaymitch]

Merino leather seats are a big reason why I'm ditching my M2C for an M2CS, after sliding all over the place on the track in the Dakota leather seats (similar feel to vinyl). Not to mention the comfort level. M2C is awesome car and $25k price premium of M2 CS makes little sense but I'm taking the plunge anyway. Plus, the added bonus of more power while keeping warranty and CF Roof.

[FrozenB7]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I like how it seems that the CS shines in the *drive it like you stole it." Mentality. I bought it to beat on.

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people. I think the M2 Competition makes far more sense for most people interested in some M2 variant.

No fallacy, sorry. I was just following the reviewer's own line of argument and pointing out its paradoxical nature. Like I said above, the M2 CS is not for most folks interested in an M2 variant. In fact, it clearly makes no sense for an enthusiast like you. And that's fine. In fact, that's great, because you can take advantage of the M2C and enjoy the heck out of it for notably less money.

However, for those enthusiasts who do like what comes with an M2 CS -- and I think there are many of us, including those who will pass simply because they believe the price is too high -- it may be evident that the reviewer does a good job of pointing out the M2 CS's value, despite his efforts to accomplish the opposite.

Here is a small, imperfect car of poor value parked beside a gigantic, imperfect car of poor value. Not much logic in being a car guy.

[Bimmed Out]

For those curious, the reviewer in this video is Marc Rutten (shmarc150), the business manager for shmee150. Marc owns a highly modified M2 Competition - here is a video on his M2C from April 2019:

[veenut28]

Appreciate the review but I think the conclusions were a bit strange.

Color is so subjective...I personally like the MB better than the SO or LBB. And i say that as the owner of an SO M2C.

I also think it's weird to shift into 6th in such a way that your hand would rest on the idrive controller. When I shift into 5th or 6th, my hand is pronated (thumb down) and I am pushing the shifter to the right. But I could see how not having an armrest may be uncomfortable.

CS vs M2C value has been covered ad nauseum but I don't understand how you can agree that adding all the CF bits would get you close to the CS price, and then you're still lacking the adaptive dampers. The issue is not that the CS is overpriced. Rather, the bottom line is that the M2C represents a terrific performance value. It's not difficult to spec a 230 convertible or m240 within striking distance of the M2C price.

And let's be honest - all these mods are overpriced for what they are. $750 for mirror caps? And you get a ton of them on the CS so the costs add up. But if you can afford it and you like all those cosmetic mods, why not go for the CS?

[H82BL8]

From my real world own review..
I owned M2 comp. for two years. This was my daily driver, including Canadian winters.

Now I have put over 2600 km on the ODO and have done the first BMW service,
The M2CS is special and I think it is the way the m2 c should have been done.
It drives and rides way better.

If you were to try and replicate a CS by just adding parts it would be a waste of money.....Just buy the CS.

On the engine power, I can tell you it feels way way stronger than their claims of 450hp.
Power delivery is also changed where by the torque seems to come on more linear and smoother not such an abrupt hit at low RPM like in the Comp

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by H82BL8

Power delivery is also changed where by the torque seems to come on more linear and smoother not such an abrupt hit at low RPM like in the Comp

Interesting this is something I really dislike on the M2C and one of the (many) reasons I much prefer the driving experience of my E36 & E46 M3.

[spree]

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...review-127056/

An Australian review bemoaning the price here... although they seem to criticise its road manners and firmness a bit as well.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by H82BL8

From my real world own review..
I owned M2 comp. for two years. This was my daily driver, including Canadian winters.

Now I have put over 2600 km on the ODO and have done the first BMW service,
The M2CS is special and I think it is the way the m2 c should have been done.
It drives and rides way better.

If you were to try and replicate a CS by just adding parts it would be a waste of money.....Just buy the CS.

On the engine power, I can tell you it feels way way stronger than their claims of 450hp.
Power delivery is also changed where by the torque seems to come on more linear and smoother not such an abrupt hit at low RPM like in the Comp

I think the benefit of the adaptive suspension is undervalued. Having access to improved ride quality, when you want it, is desirable.

[smknjoe]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

In all seriousness I would like to see the comparison of a CS and comp with the 763M cup-2 combo. I don't regret the CS purchase, but I've always said if I could have ordered a comp with adaptive suspension and merino leather I may have gone that route. Especially since I could have gone with orange and gold wheels

I recently installed some 763ms with Cup 2s on my M2C and to my surprise there is a very noticeable difference in handling and steering feel.

😁

Not saying it's an M2CS. Nor do I want it be. It is a worthwhile, original option, upgrade for those who drive their cars hard and want better performance.