[RPM33]

All this talk about the M2 CS price premium is similar to the M3/M4 price premium over their Competition models. The M3/M4 CS were a tad over $100k before options while their Competition models were around early $70k.

Imagine the G Series M3/M4 CS price premium? There is supposedly a M5 CS soon on the way as that will also be priced high. So the point is that the CS range is basically an exclusive class of cars that include performance parts, factory tune and suspension and exclusive number built. Part of the price premium is the exclusivity. The CS range was probably never intended to sell in bulk at these prices. The Competition version was and is the best value for the buck.

The G Series M3 and M4 Competition have more horsepower at roughly 503hp than the F Series M3/M4 CS at 454 as I would expect the G87 M2 Competition to have more horsepower than the F87 M2 CS. So typically the Competition versions provide more value.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by RPM33

All this talk about the M2 CS price premium is similar to the M3/M4 price premium over their Competition models. The M3/M4 CS were a tad over $100k before options while their Competition models were around early $70k.

Imagine the G Series M3/M4 CS price premium? There is supposedly a M5 CS soon on the way as that will also be priced high. So the point is that the CS range is basically an exclusive class of cars that include performance parts, factory tune and suspension and exclusive number built. Part of the price premium is the exclusivity. The CS range was probably never intended to sell in bulk at these prices. The Competition version was and is the best value for the buck.

The G Series M3 and M4 Competition have more horsepower at roughly 503hp than the F Series M3/M4 CS at 454 as I would expect the G87 M2 Competition to have more horsepower than the F87 M2 CS. So typically the Competition versions provide more value.

Some good points, but reading these CS reviews, the reviewer seems to want the CS to be more than just a glorified Competition to justify the higher cost. They seem to be saying that the improvement over the Competition is small.

[medphysdave]

That's the problem. No one reviewing the CS as a standalone model. All tumble to C being best value proposition. However, not everyone buys based upon value. Is the nature of buying at a price point where folks still have to be financially responsible. I'm sure if we were shopping 200 to 300k then another 30k for carbon bits and a 30lb weigh loss would have a line to buy the special variant.

[///AVM]

Kevin and 19

Very nicely stated, and I do not believe either of you are in the ‘minority.’

You are both touching upon an aspect of this topic that Artemis was alluding to in his post above. Namely, more does not always add up to more (or better) . . . if fact, for many, more can equate to less.

As to the $25K question and the perspective each of you raised, I do not believe the question is answered by simply asking whether you are getting value or $25K ‘more’ with the M2CS. As each of you suggest, and I agree, BMW has taken ‘just right’ and made it ‘too much’ . . . or, per Artemis, ‘wrong.’

What this boils down to and I have been suggesting all along . . . the answer to the $25K question will only ever fall convincingly in favor of the M2CS under the following admission . . . ‘I just want one.’

. . . but, hell, isn’t ‘I just want one’ the only true justification for purchasing any car we discuss as enthusiasts on this forum?!

///AVM

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

SDH
After months of forum discussion pertaining to the M2CS, it always whittles down to price and comparison to the Competition . . . again, it is a $25K question.
Your view is that the CS warrants $25K markup over the Competition. . . you want a CS.
My view is that the CS is an overpriced Competition. . . I got the Competition.
Ultimately, we will both will be very happy with our purchase decision, which is really all that matters.
///AVM
P.S. I want to be clear in saying that even though I do not agree with your view, I do respect it. More than that, I look forward to your taking CS delivery and sharing enthusiasm with the forum.

I commented before that both the M2C and M2 CS are excellent cars. Quite logical that both siblings are compared. Engine-wise, one got a detuned version of the S55 engine of the M3/M4 (410hp) - the other one got the unrestricted S55 engine of the M3C/M4C (450hp). Torque for both siblings identical (550Nm).

FWIW: the price delta is bigger than $25K. It's closer to 50%, given the discounts offered by BMW dealers for brand new M2C cars (for example for mine I got over 23% - about €20K off).

And about the possible argument that back in 2003 the E46 M3 CSL (€85K) was also close to a 50% markup compared to an E46 M3 (6MT: €54.5K - SMGII €57.7K).

E46 M3 CSL: a color choice between Silver Grey Metallic and Black Sapphire Metallic. 110 kg diet. Quite a number of changes, replacing more parts instead of add-ons. 1383 cars produced during an 8-month production run (May 2003 - December 2003) and never marketed as "Limited Edition". Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time of 07:50 (quite remarkable back in 2003 (360hp) - same lap time as the M2C (410hp) by BMW driver Jörg Weidinger over 15 years later - the E46 M3 (343hp) clocked 08:22 in 2000).

Base price E46 M3 - E46 M3 Cabrio - E46 M3 CSL (September 2003):


E46 M3 CSL options list: €2,160 or €2,320 for full-option:

[JustChris]

I know we're getting hooked on price but glad Artemis has pointed out the discount factor, I see a lot of RRP comparisons that at CS launch aren't really valid.

In the U.K. the M2C is getting heavily discounted and most groups had had 10-15 cars dropped on them.

My local has £11k off £56k cars meaning a realistic £45850 car. It's literally the advertised price no haggling.

Entry CS is £75 start here so it's a £30k increase or

> 60% increase.

WOW!!

Now that's settled, being fair and transparent the way the M3/4CS went they dropped about £20-30k when left on forecourts.

I don't see the M2CS going that way due to less cars and it being better but let's say £60-65k cars are possible.

Not hate or flaming here just my thoughts on current UK pricing.

Peace and enjoy those CS's lucky folks who have them incoming. One of BMWs best cars of recent times IMO.

[medphysdave]

I do speak in the narrow view of the US market. I don't believe the C is as heavily discounted here. The lack of weight reduction is definitely a sore point. It would cost roughly $9k to drop from 1550kg to ~ 1507kg by way of CCB and lightweight battery. ~ $94k. But your getting close to 3300lbs with full interior.

I'd like to see someone show me a factory package, similar weight, cost, and usability for the same price new? I don't think one exists.

The next question is whether it's worth even more cash to get the lightest version possible? I ask because there was lots of mention about 3300lbs being what BMW should have done. They kinda did if you're willing to pay for it.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

. . . I'd like to see someone show me a factory package, similar weight, cost, and usability for the same price new? I don't think one exists. . .

Dave

I cannot show you one for same price new, but I can provide several for $25K less . . . below is just one.

///AVM

P.S. sorry Dave, I could not resist

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Dave

I cannot show you one for same price new, but I can provide several for $25K less . . . below is just one.

///AVM

P.S. sorry Dave, I could not resist

I'm picking up what you're putting down. The above plus some 763m wheels and an apex racing brake kit would get the weight down.

[Hulk Smash]

The price of the CS wasn't too big of a deal for me as I was cross-shopping it with a GT350R. I already had a '18 GT350R and I absolutely loved it. I never had a single issue with the car, but I was always a bit concerned about it starting to consume oil or some kind of catastrophic fail they constantly post about on the mustang forums. I sold my 350R before I found out I was going to Germany... where I'd really be able to drive it properly. So for me it was get another 350R or try something a little different with the M2CS. When the M2CS became available through Military Sales with an out the door price under 80K, it was a no brainer to pull the trigger on one.

I will miss my Shelby

she was a badass and could really sing! lol

[medphysdave]

Man, under 80k is a nice deal. What was your order spec? I can't remember if I asked already.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Dave

I cannot show you one for same price new, but I can provide several for $25K less . . . below is just one.

///AVM

P.S. sorry Dave, I could not resist

[Hegge]

Not everyone will cross shop a M2 CS with the M2 Competition. I can see some stretching their budget for a new base 911, GT4 or Spyder, C63 AMG S, AMG GT, new M3/M4 Competition, etc. The CS is just a temporary limited edition car, it will be most likely all sold out in six months. Most dealers will probably just get two cars the most.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M2CS

When the M2CS became available through Military Sales with an out the door price under 80K, it was a no brainer to pull the trigger on one.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Man, under 80k is a nice deal.

Sounds like you got a good deal, also saying something about MSRP.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I do speak in the narrow view of the US market. I don't believe the C is as heavily discounted here. The lack of weight reduction is definitely a sore point. It would cost roughly $9k to drop from 1550kg to ~ 1507kg by way of CCB and lightweight battery. ~ $94k. But your getting close to 3300lbs with full interior.

I'd like to see someone show me a factory package, similar weight, cost, and usability for the same price new? I don't think one exists.

The next question is whether it's worth even more cash to get the lightest version possible? I ask because there was lots of mention about 3300lbs being what BMW should have done. They kinda did if you're willing to pay for it.

I agree, due to the US demand, it will most likely be MSRP or slightly more. Which makes the rumored number of cars (400), seem low for a market who has more demand.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Not everyone will cross shop a M2 CS with the M2 Competition. I can see some stretching their budget for a new base 911, GT4 or Spyder, C63 AMG S, AMG GT, new M3/M4 Competition, etc. The CS is just a temporary limited edition car, it will be most likely all sold out in six months. Most dealers will probably just get two cars the most.

I would take the CS over a base 992 911 all day, every day... It's a good stretch reaching from the CS's price point to a properly optioned GT4 or Spyder; properly optioned not excessively.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by devo

I would take the CS over a base 992 911 all day, every day... It's a good stretch reaching from the CS's price point to a properly optioned GT4 or Spyder; properly optioned not excessively.

+1 Most would think it mad but for me, small family of 4. We can genuinely all enjoy the CS.

Others not so launch. I can't think of a 2+2 that does it better.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Man, under 80k is a nice deal. What was your order spec? I can't remember if I asked already.

Hockenheim Silver, DCT, Steel brakes

Originally Posted by Artemis

Sounds like you got a good deal, also saying something about MSRP.

I simply got the standard 10% military sales discount and I don't pay any taxes unless I ship the car to the states and register there. In some instances the 10% discount isn't all that great because a bigger discount and be found in the states. For example, a standard M2C through military sales only qualifies for a 10% discount. You can find a new M2C in the US with a bigger discount than that. But yeah, no taxes are owed as long as the car stays overseas.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by JustChris

being fair and transparent the way the M3/4CS went they dropped about £20-30k when left on forecourts.
I don't see the M2CS going that way due to less cars and it being better but let's say £60-65k cars are possible.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'd like to see someone show me a factory package, similar weight, cost, and usability for the same price new? I don't think one exists.

Already since several months the M4 CS pictured below is offered for sale over here with a 28.85% discount (€36.5K discount). The discount is offered upfront, prior to you taking a seat to negotiate with the BMW M car salesman. No dealer demo car (mileage is 3 km = less than 2 miles). Nice car. Well-equipped. And yet still no buyer. Comparison: M2 CS M-DCT with metallic color (HS, MB or BSM) is €101,445 MSRP over here.

Originally Posted by Artemis

The M2 CS is a great car, no doubt about that - The Über M2, the #1 in the F87 pecking order. But - at least in Europe - as reflected by low demand, it's overpriced - not worth its salt. And its thunder got stolen by the M2 Competition: better value for money, taken into account discounts up to 20%. For the record, as regards MSRP prices: M2 CS = M2 Competition + 218i.
If money is no issue, get an M2 CS as investment in driving fun. As a financial investment it will get you a poor return, as most cars. And about halo cars from the past increasing in value or holding well value: wake up in the 2020-2030 decade: emission taxes on the rise, leasing high performance ICE cars getting fiscally discouraged, cities and towns gradually restricting high performance ICE cars, exhaust sounds further muzzled in Europe and COVID-19 shifting the paradigm of priorities for lots of people.

[Advevo]

The M2 CS is just too expensive for a 2 series BMW.

M2 Competition is the sweetspot for sure.

Bmw has to know its price point. Porsche money for a 2 series that's a bit too much

[19x]

Considering that one can easily get 8-10% off sticker on a brand new M2C right now, a more realistic difference in price is $30k.

That's a lot.

Just so you guys know, 12% is top and bottom line profit on these cars at every dealership in the US.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by 19x

Considering that one can easily get 8-10% off sticker on a brand new M2C right now, a more realistic difference in price is $30k.

That's a lot.

Just so you guys know, 12% is top and bottom line profit on these cars at every dealership in the US.

That should be about correct. With a Base MSRP of $83,600 the invoice price should be $78,316. Added Value is another 5% of MSRP so another $4,180. Total cost = $74,136.