[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

It appears to be a track tool, so if you aren't chasing track times it would be a slightly useful toy. Techies such as myself would probably get it just to see how it works 😂.

This^^^^. I'd get it just to see how long it takes my tires to warm up in various conditions, and optimize tire pressure for various scenerios. I've spent more money on lesser things.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

This^^^^. I'd get it just to see how long it takes my tires to warm up in various conditions, and optimize tire pressure for various scenerios. I've spent more money on lesser things.

I'm not a track rat but does that data really matter? :

I mean, I would of just coded out the TPMS, then add it back, after my track session, to avoid error, when I'm on the track.

[Pol]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Lol at place box in center console when the CS has no center console.

That's right

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Nice observation

That's probably why didn't include the actual box, beside them being cheap..

Is there still a USB port in the glove box or below it? I thought the M2 had an oddly located accessory or USB port that would be ideal for powering this little guy.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm not a track rat but does that data really matter? :

I mean, I would of just coded out the TPMS, then add it back, after my track session, to avoid error, when I'm on the track.

I don't think it'll be more useful than the standard TPMS sensors. I can't think of a practical use to know the actual temp of the tire vs the air temp inside of the tire. Both lead you to make the same adjustments.

What would be useful is knowing the temp rage across the tire, because then you can adjust camber to even out tire wear and grip.

I guess your point is a practical use though. If you disable OEM TPMS and use Track Connect instead, you can circumvent the BMW only allowing you to use comfort mode when the tires are below a certain pressure. So it would allow running lower tire pressure, while still getting sport mode, temp, and psi features.

Would need two phones though for track use. One to read tire readings, the other to read ODB2 data. So that you can monitor all the important stuff.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Is there still a USB port in the glove box or below it? I thought the M2 had an oddly located accessory or USB port that would be ideal for powering this little guy.

I'm not sure about newer vehicles, I have a US-spec, 2016 MY and I just double-checked mine, which doesn't have an extra USB, inside the glove box but I did run a constant amperage fuse tap, for my dash camera. There's that, if you choose to go down this route.

But regardless, I don't see the value of it, tracking or not but that's just my humble opinion.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Lol at place box in center console when the CS has no center console.

Velcro it to the center console

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Is there still a USB port in the glove box or below it? I thought the M2 had an oddly located accessory or USB port that would be ideal for powering this little guy.

In the video they specifically said that the box had to be located at the center of the car which for the CS would be the console that doesn't exist.

[AlpsRider]

I guess Velcro would work but Velcro on alcantara seems almost sacrilegious. 😂

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I guess Velcro would work but Velcro on alcantara seems almost sacrilegious. 😂

It's like galvanic corrosion. The impurities of the velcro seep into the alcantara and slowly compromise its eliteness.

Only things that can safely interact with alcantara are carbon fiber, titanium, and e85 or greater.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MR.

Velcro it to the center console

Onto the carbon fibre tunnel.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Onto the carbon fibre tunnel.

And add back in more weight???

[eeyang92]

Makes me wonder why BMW's TPMS couldn't accomplish the same thing? It already displays the temp and pressure data in iDrive, so I imagine they would just need to create a BMW app to do that. The temp/pressure doesn't need to be that accurate as I imagine it's all relative (increase/decrease pressure to decrease lap times).

[CSBM5]

Measuring temperature near the treadface, in the actual tire carcass, is much more accurate reflection of the "tire temperature" than the TPMS sensor measuring internal air temperature. Besides the obvious substantial phase lag between tread temperature change and internal air temperature, there are other losses that result in the TPMS air temperature measurement being a very poorly correlated value versus tread temperature.

For example, the tire carcass/tread loses heat due to conduction into the road surface, convection into the outside air and radiation into the surroundings. Having an embedded sensor in the actual carcass allows a much more accurate and direct measurement of temperature the tire is experiencing. It will give much more accurate data of the temperature profile the tire experiences - it's transient temperature profile (tire temperature versus time) with the substantial peaks recorded, etc. You get essentially none of that with just an internal air temperature measurement.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Measuring temperature near the treadface, in the actual tire carcass, is much more accurate reflection of the "tire temperature" than the TPMS sensor measuring internal air temperature. Besides the obvious substantial phase lag between tread temperature change and internal air temperature, there are other losses that result in the TPMS air temperature measurement being a very poorly correlated value versus tread temperature.

For example, the tire carcass/tread loses heat due to conduction into the road surface, convection into the outside air and radiation into the surroundings. Having an embedded sensor in the actual carcass allows a much more accurate and direct measurement of temperature the tire is experiencing. It will give much more accurate data of the temperature profile the tire experiences - it's transient temperature profile (tire temperature versus time) with the substantial peaks recorded, etc. You get essentially none of that with just an internal air temperature measurement.

I don't disagree that it's a more accurate way to read the tire. The problem I have is that nothing useful comes from having more accurate information. The more accurate information gives no insight that would lead you to make better changes to your car setup.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

I don't disagree that it's a more accurate way to read the tire. The problem I have is that nothing useful comes from having more accurate information. The more accurate information gives no insight that would lead you to make better changes to your car setup.

That depends on how you employ the data. Michelin has extremely detailed data on how the tire responds versus air pressure versus temperature at the sensor location. That three dimensional array is highly useful when properly applied and interpreted which the app implements. While it obviously isn't as useful as real-time infrared tread analysis from a full view sensor setup in every wheel well, I can't simply say it's worthless either. Unless someone has spent time with the system using engineering level analysis, speculating on it's usefulness is simply inaccurate at this point.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That depends on how you employ the data. Michelin has extremely detailed data on how the tire responds versus air pressure versus temperature at the sensor location. That three dimensional array is highly useful when properly applied and interpreted which the app implements. While it obviously isn't as useful as real-time infrared tread analysis from a full view sensor setup in every wheel well, I can't simply say it's worthless either. Unless someone has spent time with the system using engineering level analysis, speculating on it's usefulness is simply inaccurate at this point.

You're the one speculating here and giving run-around non-answers. Specifically, what changes can you make to your car's setup with the data given by track connect sensors that you cannot accomplish with TPMS sensors? That's what my comment is about.

Even the marketing material and instructional documentation say the track connect technology improved the lap time by 7.29 by analyzing track data over the course of 10 laps to give recommendations on the best tire pressure to run. All it's using itself for is a platform to recommend the best tire pressures to people, not as a way to make other setup changes.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

You're the one speculating here and giving run-around non-answers. Specifically, what changes can you make to your car's setup with the data given by track connect sensors that you cannot accomplish with TPMS sensors? That's what my comment is about.

Even the marketing material and instructional documentation say the track connect technology improved the lap time by 7.29 by analyzing track data over the course of 10 laps to give recommendations on the best tire pressure to run. All it's using itself for is a platform to recommend the best tire pressures to people, not as a way to make other setup changes.

That was my whole point. The TPMS sensor of air temperature inside the tire is widely inaccurate, and even if you datalog it, it doesn't capture the true profile of tread temperature versus time, and also has a huge transient phase lag versus tread temperature. It's worthless. If you want to know any temperature related data, the connect data is far more useful than any TPMS sensor data.

I had no run-around and non-answers. Reread my technical description of why and how the track connect data differs from a TPMS temp data. If I've made any technical error, please reply and we can figure out what I'm missing, but I don't see anything in error at the moment.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That was my whole point. The TPMS sensor of air temperature inside the tire is widely inaccurate, and even if you datalog it, it doesn't capture the true profile of tread temperature versus time, and also has a huge transient phase lag versus tread temperature. It's worthless. If you want to know any temperature related data, the connect data is far more useful than any TPMS sensor data.

I had no run-around and non-answers. Reread my technical description of why and how the track connect data differs from a TPMS temp data. If I've made any technical error, please reply and we can figure out what I'm missing, but I don't see anything in error at the moment.

You need to get your TPMS sensors checked then, because they are rated to be +/-0.5PSI. And whenever I check mine with my digital gauge, my gauge always matches idrive to the whole number. But that makes absolutely no difference in the issue I brought up. Because, yet again you are missing my entire point... Which I'll repeat for the third or fourth time now. The Track Connect sensors DO NOT give you any more useful information than the OEM TPMS sensors. Meaning that, more useful information will allow you to make different and better setup changes to your car. Accuracy of data =/= usefulness of data. (though track connect isn't more accurate in reading PSI, which I'll explain later) Track Connect does not give you more useful data. You keep saying it does, but when I ask you for specifics on what you can change in your cars setup based on Track Connect sensors vs TMPS sensor, you ignore the question and respond with fluff.

The sensor being mounted inside of the tire or in the wheel makes no difference in reading PSI. Nor does Michelin claim more accurate PSI readings. The entire track connect system isn't based on that. The entire system is created to give calculated tire pressure recommendations based on your driving style. You ask the app to start logging data, and after enough data is collected it recommends a tire pressure to you. That is how Michelin achieved the 7.29 second better lap time. It set the car's tire pressure to some arbitrary PSI, then ran the track for 10 laps. At the end of the 10 laps, they app told them what is the best tire pressure to run for their current driving conditions. They then set their tires to the PSI and a achieved 7.29sec faster lap time. It's actually a useless test without knowing what their tires were run at for the start lap. If they started off at 5psi, well then it's not hard to achieve a 7.29sec lap time by adjusting tire pressures. So the test doesn't show how great their system is.

Yes, I agree you get quicker tire temp readings from a sensor in the tire, as opposed to in the wheel. But that is of absolutely no use to a driver setting their own pressures. You're not gonna stop in the middle of the track to adjust your pressures. And it is absolutely not more useful for making suspension changes for the same reason. No one adjusts their tire pressure to handle 1/8 corners at a track. You run a tire pressure, the same tire pressure, for the entire lap.

You keep arguing this from a "the sensors are more accurate" perspective (which they aren't. they read temp quicker, but aren't more accurate), without grasping that I am speaking about usefulness, not accuracy or speed of readings. That's why you are missing my point. You also completely miss the point of what Track Connect is designed for. It is a system to calculate and recommend the best tire pressure for ones driving scenario, so the user doesn't have to think about it themselves. That's it.

[Mdkcrf250r]

The tire temperature function of the BMW TPMS sensors are inaccurate and slow to respond. It’s a useless function. The functions of the track connect are very useful as having tire temps is the actual data needed to get the most performance out of the tire. For example, I did a burnout before a drag race and the air temp in the rear tires did not change. If I had the tire temps I could find the optimal temp range and warm the tires up to that point without under or overdoing it.

[CSBM5]

If one doesn't understand how much more accurate and different the tire temperature measurement is in the carcass of the tire versus a TPMS air measurement, there's not much anyone can do. TPMS air measurements are a distant cousin to the tire carcass air measurement for all the physical reasons I outlined, precise mechanical engineering reasons, in a post above. Hence the point of "if you want to measure tire temperature", a TPMS is a near worthless measurement.

Accurate in these terms mean you're measuring a direct carcass/compound temperature with all the nuances and precision that provides. Having done extensive thermal analysis testing, instrumentation, analysis, design, etc, there is no question this is the case. A simple analysis will show it in fact. One can deny long proven thermal design analysis as invalid, but that doesn't make it not true.

[AlpsRider]

Since these new Connect tires + box haven't been evaluated by anyone here there is no proof how well they perform.
I can only say that I've found the TPMS useful. It tells me in the morning what the cold pressure is accurately with the usual .7 psi lower reading that both of my BMWs have had. I just add .7 to the reading. When the tires warm up I can see how much the pressure goes up and how hot the tires get in a given situation. A 4 pound gain with normal street driving is about normal. On a hot day in the twisties is where it's really obvious how hot the tires get. If they get too hot add more air. If they don't get hot enough let some air out. This whole tire pressure/temperature thing is not exact rocket science. It may be more predictable at one track on a given day but ambient temperature can change the optimum pressure, cool mornings will be different than hot afternoons. Chasing optimum pressure in mountain twisties is hopeless. You have varying roads, temperature and altitude.
I think this new tech might be more accurate than TPMS, how good it will be compared to the evaluation of an experienced driver remains to be seen.