[dcmac]

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Funny, I heard this same thing from a ton of 135 owners when I got my 1M and now pretty much everyone appreciates the difference in spite of the increase cost. It's funny how few people want something when they can't have it.

That’s pretty presumptuous. I am the same as @[5.M0NSTER] in that I own an OG, tuned and with bigger rubber like plenty others here. Adore it. I can’t speak for his financial position but I can for mine: upgrading to the CS is well within my means and I’ve never thought about doing it, just like I didn’t bat an eyelid at the C, mainly because driving around a fart machine isn’t my idea of a good time (relax M2C owners just having a bit of fun .

The lack of desire for the CS is for the exact reasons he mentions. The CS is a C with some lipstick, and when compared to other options out there including the one you’ve mentioned in the Vette, simply not worth the money. And a 135 to a 1M is a pretty drastic jump, certainly not representative of a jump from M2 to M2C or M2C to M2CS.

You have track toys already, so it sounds like a nice toy for the street is what you want, correct? The Vette’s fun and potential is, for most, only truly utilized at the track. A subjective point, but it’s also got a bit of an old dude, late life crisis image. Then again, BMW’s often get tarred with the rich dude wanker brush too don’t they. I don’t give a shit about image so I’ll assume you don’t either, so a moot point. I guess I’m just saying the thing isn’t going to wow anyone on the street.

You have an M2C which will likely drive just like an M2CS with a bit less power. If you’re willing to burn 30k for the sake of engine tuning (which you could do just as good with the C) and gaudy carbon bling, good luck to you, but it doesn’t seem to me like the driving experience you’ll get matches the outlay.

If I was in your position I’d be looking at something that can give you a fun and different experience on the street. Maybe an F-Type.. maybe an older Vantage... ? Maybe a new Vantage if budget can stretch? Hell, you sound loaded, why not go balls out and pick up a Taycan just for fun?

Just another opinion and some suggestions, all the best with it.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Man, tough call

Not for me. M2 CS is uber cool. Corvettes are a dime a dozen and, imo, over-styled and tacky looking.

[uniqueMR]

M2CS

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by dcmac

That’s pretty presumptuous. I am the same as @[5.M0NSTER] in that I own an OG, tuned and with bigger rubber like plenty others here. Adore it. I can’t speak for his financial position but I can for mine: upgrading to the CS is well within my means and I’ve never thought about doing it, just like I didn’t bat an eyelid at the C, mainly because driving around a fart machine isn’t my idea of a good time (relax M2C owners just having a bit of fun .

The lack of desire for the CS is for the exact reasons he mentions. The CS is a C with some lipstick, and when compared to other options out there including the one you’ve mentioned in the Vette, simply not worth the money. And a 135 to a 1M is a pretty drastic jump, certainly not representative of a jump from M2 to M2C or M2C to M2CS.

You have track toys already, so it sounds like a nice toy for the street is what you want, correct? The Vette’s fun and potential is, for most, only truly utilized at the track. A subjective point, but it’s also got a bit of an old dude, late life crisis image. Then again, BMW’s often get tarred with the rich dude wanker brush too don’t they. I don’t give a shit about image so I’ll assume you don’t either, so a moot point. I guess I’m just saying the thing isn’t going to wow anyone on the street.

You have an M2C which will likely drive just like an M2CS with a bit less power. If you’re willing to burn 30k for the sake of engine tuning (which you could do just as good with the C) and gaudy carbon bling, good luck to you, but it doesn’t seem to me like the driving experience you’ll get matches the outlay.

If I was in your position I’d be looking at something that can give you a fun and different experience on the street. Maybe an F-Type.. maybe an older Vantage... ? Maybe a new Vantage if budget can stretch? Hell, you sound loaded, why not go balls out and pick up a Taycan just for fun?

Just another opinion and some suggestions, all the best with it.

Yep, presumptive as hell. I don't have a C, I have a OG Performance Edition. I like the exclusivity of the CS. That's the big reason I keep the 1M and one of the reasons I resist vetted and mustang's, they are everywhere. The PE M2 is exclusive as only 150 made but would love to see what the CS has..

[5.M0NSTER]

Sounds like you made you decision already based on 'exclusivity'. Enjoy your Carbon Sticker. The rest of us who can and actually drive our cars will make other choices. Some people like to drive fast, instead of looking at an exclusive garage queen.

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Sounds like you made you decision already based on 'exclusivity'. Enjoy your Carbon Sticker. The rest of us who can and actually drive our cars will make other choices. Some people like to drive fast, instead of looking at an exclusive garage queen.

Hahaha, you don't know me, but I understand. If I'm spending $80k I'd rather spend on something you don't see every day, right. And since I have two race cars I actually drive hard, I can have a few garage queens that only see sunny day, old man cruising. Carbon stickers, I'm okay with that. Don't hate because you don't want or need. People who buy cars like the CS are the people who are responsible for car companies continuing to develop high performance cars. If everyone just bought a Camry and added exhaust and wheels, nothing performance much would be developed.
Please enjoy your M2C, it's a great car.

[5.M0NSTER]

How many times do I have to tell you i don't own an M2C? Can’t even get that right. Get you reading glasses bro.

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

How many times do I have to tell you i don't own an M2C? Can’t even get that right. Get you reading glasses bro.

My bad, sorry. So we are n the same boat. Both own OG M2's, both love them, both fortunate guys. The only thing we seem to disagree on is maybe the value of owning a M2 CS. Which I might add was kinda the reason I started this thread. Original post was "CS vs. Z06". You apparently think a CS is stupid and a waste of money. I guess your vote is for the Z06.
Thanks for your input.

[akkando]

It's really sports car vs versatile sporty car that's limited edition.

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by akkando

It's really sports car vs versatile sporty car that's limited edition.

Good way to look at it. I may get both!

[medphysdave]

Which interior trim? If 1lt I'd pass. The Z06 models certainly have not hit their floor. I'd even be ok with one that had a few more miles on it. Plenty will come up for sale when the c8 Z06 comes out.

If 2lt or 3lt, then it couldn't hurt to jump in if the color is right. I wouldn't settle.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS isn't a sports car? Tell me more.

It's not built from the ground up as a sports car. The platform is the heavy and tall 2 series. Something like a Miata or Corvette isn't taking some other car and trying to shove in a sports car suspension.

I'm not saying it's a bad car, I own an m2, but it's not a dedicated sports car platform.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS isn't a sports car? Tell me more.

It's amazing what we now consider slow, I was shopping for my next car after the CS. An addition, not replacement. Im thinking a 997 gt3. Funny enough, slower than m2 CS around Hockenheim and 7:35 on the ring. CS rumored to be around a 7:42. Sure we are speaking about a decade of improvement, but the CS is really a jack of all in a league of extroidinary peers. Does it really need to be a master of anything when it doesn't really have any direct competition??? Z06 is not a jack of all, and also not a master within it's peers.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by akkando

It's really sports car vs versatile sporty car that's limited edition.

I agree with Akkando.

It sounds worse than intended, but there is a difference between a sport car and a sport coupe.

BMW ///M models are sport coupes (and sedans) . . . and among the best on the market.

Sport cars are not for everyone, as is the same of sport coupes. The M2CS is a sport coupe.

I absolutely dig the M2C, M3 and M4 models, but not nearly as much as my sport car.

The’ X vs Y’ discussions often turn into ‘X is better than Y’ arguments. Not sure why? Never go anywhere. Nobody ever ‘wins’ except the owner who is simply content with their decision and enjoyment their vehicle brings them.

So M2CS vs Vette? The Vette chassis has the feel and handling dynamics of a sport car. BMW can add all they want to the M2CS, but it is still built on a 2-series chassis. It will still be a sport coupe. . . and I am sure a damn good one.

///AVM

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I agree with Akkando.

It sounds worse than intended, but there is a difference between a sport car and a sport coupe.

BMW ///M models are sport coupes (and sedans) . . . and among the best on the market.

Sport cars are not for everyone, as is the same of sport coupes. The M2CS is a sport coupe.

I absolutely dig the M2C, M3 and M4 models, but not nearly as much as my sport car.

The’ X vs Y’ discussions often turn into ‘X is better than Y’ arguments. Not sure why? Never go anywhere. Nobody ever ‘wins’ except the owner who is simply content with their decision and enjoyment their vehicle brings them.

So M2CS vs Vette? The Vette chassis has the feel and handling dynamics of a sport car. BMW can add all they want to the M2CS, but it is still built on a 2-series chassis. It is will still be a sport coupe. . . and I am sure a damn good one.

///AVM

Yup.

The M2C is a fantastic sports coupe but not a true sports car.

....is exactly what i'm going to say to my wife at some point in the future, when i'm trying to add a Miata/S2K/boxster to my collection.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by kepler

So a sports coupe is not a sports car. I’m okay with that, though I can’t say I really “get it” (or understand the importance of the distinction)

Kepler

If you cannot tell the difference between M2C and your GT3 chassis, then nothing I can say is going provide you distinction between a sport car and sport coupe.

Is the distinction important? If it were not, well, I would own an M2C right now for one hell of a lot less than I paid for my sport car.

///AVM

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by kepler

So a sports coupe is not a sports car. I’m okay with that, though I can’t say I really “get it” (or understand the importance of the distinction). I’m a longtime Porsche enthusiast, so let me ask... was my parts bin 981 GT4 with Carrera S engine a sports car? How about my GT3 Touring with wing delete and road-driving focus? How about the vanilla 718 Cayman line with small-displacement, eco-friendly engine? Or the new 992 Carrera that is loaded with tech and comfort amenities? I’m just trying to decipher the semantics and logic. I withdrew my #1 spot from my dealership’s M2 CS waitlist a good while back, so not on any kind of mission. I just find some of the points made and distinctions drawn a tad curious.

I think there are plenty of grey areas, but my general rule is to look at what the chassis was originally intended for. The 981 GT4? yeah, i'd call that a sports car. Because at the end of the day, the main reason anyone is buying any Cayman/Boxster based car is to have fun while driving fast. 911 based cars are similar. When Porsche designed the basic 911 chassis, they were designing it to be good at going fast. Other things like interior space, ease of entry, etc were certainly taken into account but if push came to shove, they were taking the back seat.

When BMW designed the 2-series chassis, they thought about a lot of things and performance was certainly near the top of their list (it is RWD based after all) but practicality was also a major concern, since the majority of 2-series buyers are more concerned with how easy the car is live with, compared to how well it gets down on a race track. Dont get me wrong, 2-series drivers want their car to to be able to drive well on a twisty road or a race track but its a secondary, rather than primary concern to the majority of them.


That's how I see things. But like I said, there are plenty of grey areas and something isn't necessarily good or bad just because of the category it fits in.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by kepler

So a sports coupe is not a sports car. I'm okay with that, though I can't say I really "get it" (or understand the importance of the distinction). I'm a longtime Porsche enthusiast, so let me ask... was my parts bin 981 GT4 with Carrera S engine a sports car? How about my GT3 Touring with wing delete and road-driving focus? How about the vanilla 718 Cayman line with small-displacement, eco-friendly engine? Or the new 992 Carrera that is loaded with tech and comfort amenities? I'm just trying to decipher the semantics and logic. I withdrew my #1 spot from my dealership's M2 CS waitlist a good while back, so not on any kind of mission. I just find some of the points made and distinctions drawn a tad curious.

A Porsche 981/911 you referred to were built from the ground up as a sports car. Look at the lowered center of gravity, the decreases drag coefficient, the careful weight distribution, etc.

While a M2C/CS is derived from a 2 series. The goal of the 2 series is to be somewhat practical and optimized for passenger access, comfort and fit. The M versions have obviously tuned the chassis as best as they can to be a sports car, but if you don't start as a sports car in the beginning, you're always compromised at the end.

This is not to say that the M 2-series are not great driving cars. And on normal public roads with twisties, all are very capable.

But to ///AVM point, there is a difference.

I've actually been very interested in either the M2C and 718. In the end, I may go with the M2C due to the practicality design it originated with. But nonetheless, I will still have a fantastic driving experience.

One last point, the reason the M cars were so heavily regarded in the past was primarily due to it being a practical "sports car", aka a sporty coupe. It can take the family around while allowing you to do early Sunday drives when you're by yourself. Nothing wrong with that and I only see this as a competitive advantage for the M division.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Kepler

If you cannot tell the difference between M2C and your GT3 chassis, then nothing I can say is going provide you distinction between a sport car and sport coupe.

Is the distinction important? If it were not, well, I would own an M2C right now for one hell of a lot less than I paid for my sport car.

///AVM

Boy you are struggling. You think because I am asking about the definitional boundaries people assign to the concept or schema of a sports car that I can’t tell the difference between an M2 variant and my Touring? You are either trolling hard or you are completely lost. Either way, good luck to you.

To all others, thanks for sharing your thoughtful comments and perspectives.

[Evil///M]

Good luck even finding a CS

[Conissah]

Go and drive both... The CS will pull more up top compared to the C, but it'll give you a good feel. IMO, I've seen maybe 4 M2's on the road in my lifetime, compared to the at least 10 Vette's I see DAILY. I adore my M, don't think I'll ever get rid of it. It's absolutely fantastic, but you have to decide for yourself. 2 seater American V8 powered rocket or inline 6 TT German "4" seater scalpel...?

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by Evil///M

Good luck even finding a CS

I have one. My dealership has two coming and I'm in slot #1