[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Project_F87

Probably not a "significant" bump, but torque must be increased if hp is increasing so there will be some sort of increase. I would bet they are going to use the same tune as what's in the M3/4 competition

Forcibly, if power is increased at a given RPM, torque is also increased at that same RPM. It's math/physics.

However, a higher peak power rating does not automatically translate to a peak torque rating increase as the two can be at different RPM.

IMO, the M2cs will simply be running the M3/4CP tune for 450hp DIN, which implies a 406lb-ft peak torque rating.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Hey,

You own an M4 CS; do you believe the M Adaptive Suspension is more beneficial over the static dampers?

I assume the M2 CS will share the identical hardware, so the question is most relevant.

Edit: Nevermind, I already found your answer on the subject

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18794482

Indeed, I do find that adaptive dampers offer better overall performance than the static ones since they continuously adapt to the driving conditions. The minute weight penalty is significantly outweighed by the performance benefit.

Regarding the setting adjustability, it does not make the car transition from super plush to super stiff as the damping still needs to be adapted to the spring rates that are fixed. But it does make difference. Comfort removes the rough edges from bumpy roads. On a smooth track, Sport+ provides better response to driving inputs for sharper handling. There is one race track I go to that has a pretty bumpy braking zone, in Sport+ it is choppy enough to be scary; just toning the EDC down to Sport is enough to make the car stable under braking there. Further, I find BMW really have nailed the damping characteristics on the CS.

Regarding magna ride vs the BMW valved system, I think both offer pros and cons. We have both in our driveway with my M4cs and my wife's RS3. I find the valved system offers more consistent performance, particularly when the dampers are worked hard. The magnetorheological fluid seems to offer less consistent viscosity as it heats up, but offers much faster response and a greater range of adjustability in normal operating temperatures. I'd say magnaride is better for the daily while the valved system is better for the track.

[SeanWRT]

@CanAutM3 Interesting!

Care to explain BMW's decision of fitting the KW CS the fixed coilover to the M4 GTS, other than the technologically superior adaptive dampers that the lesser M3/4s come with?

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Agreed, love that color!

I remember the first time I saw a Laguna Seca blue E46 M3, in a pharmacy parking lot, I did a double take asking my friends "What's that!?"

I was younger then and wasn't into BMWs yet but the color make the vehicle look like something outside of this world.

I suspect that this Misano blue, with a black carbon roof will have the same effect on the plebeians

Attachment 1998994

Here ya go! LSB E46 M3s as far as you can see. Took this at the Performance Center back in 2004.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Here ya go! LSB E46 M3s as far as you can see. Took this at the Performance Center back in 2004.

Awesomeness!

It looks like a Smurf's wet dream

#TheColorMakesTheCar

[N54]

Anyone like to give an opinion as to when we will see the M2 CS officially unveiled ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

@CanAutM3 Interesting!

Care to explain BMW's decision of fitting the KW CS the fixed coilover to the M4 GTS, other than the technologically superior adaptive dampers that the lesser M3/4s come with?

My best guess is that it is based on the target audience for the M4GTS and it's intended use as a track focused car. The dampers on the GTS offer a greater range of "user tune-ability" than the 3 preset modes of the EDC that are a compromise between street and track use.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My best guess is that it is based on the target audience for the M4GTS and it's intended use as a track focused car. The dampers on the GTS offer a greater range of "user tune-ability" than the 3 preset modes of the EDC that are a compromise between street and track use.

I sure wish BMW would stop producing "track focused" cars with limited front camber and no adjustability. If a Mustang can get more than -2 front camber through adjustment, why does BMW insist on releasing cars that will simply burn the outer edges of the fronts tires to death in short order?

Second beef is for them to not eliminate very useful items, specifically Comfort Access, which incur essentially zero weight penalty (CA module is less than 1 lb, door handles weigh same, the antennas are plastic and the three of them total to less than 1 lb). Many would prefer to have CA when told it would increase weight by 1 lb on a 3500+ lb car.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I sure wish BMW would stop producing "track focused" cars with limited front camber and no adjustability. If a Mustang can get more than -2 front camber through adjustment, why does BMW insist on releasing cars that will simply burn the outer edges of the fronts tires to death in short order?

Second beef is for them to not eliminate very useful items, specifically Comfort Access, which incur essentially zero weight penalty (CA module is less than 1 lb, door handles weigh same, the antennas are plastic and the three of them total to less than 1 lb). Many would prefer to have CA when told it would increase weight by 1 lb on a 3500+ lb car.

Agreed, it is a bit ridiculous to have to add camber plates on track focused car such as the GTS.

As for comfort access, I remember reading somewhere that it is a fair bit more than just one lb of weight. Further, with the stock installation of the CF diffuser on the CS and GTS, it renders one third of the comfort access features useless anyhow. But I agree, even after almost 6 months of ownership, I still struggle to get accustomed to the lack of comfort access on my M4cs and regularly find myself tugging at the locked door latch. I guess I got pampered for too long .

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Since our reliable source ynguldyn is reluctant to reply on the carbon hood, I'll take that as a NO. (Mind you he went as far as clarify the suspension setup).

It looks to me BMW is saving the hood, fender and trunk for the MY2021 CSL. Along with the GTS seat, more stripped interior, roll cage, new wheel, adjustable coilover, CCB standard, the water injected S55 and some special color, enough new stuff inside and out to market the car as the CSL and ask mildly optioned 911 base money.

Well, if they want to make a proper CSL comeback, they need to put in the 500hp S58 and a revised front end (for the S58 air flow and for the exclusive CSL look at the same time).

That's the car I'd pay double base car money for.

I can't see any F series car getting the S58 before the G80/82 and the X3/4M.

We all know that the S55 has more headroom - more horsepower isn't the answer here, in my opinion anyway, for a CSL. If they could get the weight down significantly, and give the S55 the M4 GTS treatment, well...then you've got something.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My best guess is that it is based on the target audience for the M4GTS and it's intended use as a track focused car. The dampers on the GTS offer a greater range of "user tune-ability" than the 3 preset modes of the EDC that are a compromise between street and track use.

So called the user tuneability is nothing. GT3RS would've had that if that works better.

Unlike 911 GT3, BMW M adaptive damper simply is not tuned to maximize dynamic performance but is designed to cope with the ever-changing real world condition.

As for the suspension for M4 GTS, the KW Club Sport Coilover is the right choice because it's cheaper and all ready. To develop a new track-focused adaptive damper would cost even more and have less marketing value.

The M2 CS is certainly much less hardcore than the M4 GTS, and thus can make do with the adaptive damper from the parts bin. And it's consistent with what they said about the CS (Maximized track performance with everyday usability), no mention there is the M3/4 CS up there to copy.

But in M2 case, the switch from the fixed suspension to the adaptive one is a step back hardcore-ness wise, though the performance can improve as the old fixed one isn't remotely as good as the KW CS.

[N54]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Since our reliable source ynguldyn is reluctant to reply on the carbon hood, I'll take that as a NO. (Mind you he went as far as clarify the suspension setup).

It looks to me BMW is saving the hood, fender and trunk for the MY2021 CSL. Along with the GTS seat, more stripped interior, roll cage, new wheel, adjustable coilover, CCB standard, the water injected S55 and some special color, enough new stuff inside and out to market the car as the CSL and ask mildly optioned 911 base money.

Well, if they want to make a proper CSL comeback, they need to put in the 500hp S58 and a revised front end (for the S58 air flow and for the exclusive CSL look at the same time).

That's the car I'd pay double base car money for.

Didn’t Scott26 say that the first CSL will be on the M8 and or M4?

And that were was no time for a CSL before the F87 production ends?

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Adaptive Suspension in M cars are catered more towards performance and not so much ensuring a cushy ride.

It's worth it IMO and BMW wouldn't of added stock in the M4 CS, which adds cost and complexity, unless they felt it warranted its purpose.

Supposedly, on the G series, BMW improved it even further as they now call it Adaptive M Suspension (Version 2). :

Maybe some of the complaints about it not being discernible are now alleviated on the newer iterations.

The member in the post below broke it down better than I ever could:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=942225

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ntrol/EBRqGBoO

Uh huh, is that why none of the actual BMW factory race cars like the M235iR and M4GTS use adaptive suspension?

[Benzima]

M2 CS will be a MY2020 or MY2021?

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Uh huh, is that why none of the actual BMW factory race cars like the M235iR and M4GTS use adaptive suspension?

Well I guess by that reasoning since two hardcore, limited-production, track-focus vehicles didn't incorporate this technology; it's worthless and didn't contain any substantive value to the average M car consumer.

You win

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

So called the user tuneability is nothing. GT3RS would've had that if that works better.

Unlike 911 GT3, BMW M adaptive damper simply is not tuned to maximize dynamic performance but is designed to cope with the ever-changing real world condition.

As for the suspension for M4 GTS, the KW Club Sport Coilover is the right choice because it's cheaper and all ready. To develop a new track-focused adaptive damper would cost even more and have less marketing value.

The M2 CS is certainly much less hardcore than the M4 GTS, and thus can make do with the adaptive damper from the parts bin. And it's consistent with what they said about the CS (Maximized track performance with everyday usability), no mention there is the M3/4 CS up there to copy.

But in M2 case, the switch from the fixed suspension to the adaptive one is a step back hardcore-ness wise, though the performance can improve as the old fixed one isn't remotely as good as the KW CS.

I'm not sure I follow you, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Porsche went with adaptive dampers on the GT3RS because they figured it is the better overall performance option, in line with what I said earlier.

I am just guessing BMW went with coil-overs on the M4GTS to offer greater user tune-ability for the targeted audience because many M4GTS owners said that having the ability to doodle with car settings and optimize them for every track is part of the appeal of the car. But lower development costs, as you stated, are also likely part of the equation.

I am also not sure why you are saying that going with adaptive dampers on the M2cs is less "hardcore" . Is a GT3RS any less hardcore because of them? Fixed non-adjustable dampers are on the lowest end of the performance spectrum because their tuning is compromised to accommodate a broad range of driving conditions.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Uh huh, is that why none of the actual BMW factory race cars like the M235iR and M4GTS use adaptive suspension?

You shouldn't be confusing things by making things either black or white.

Adaptive dampers are the better performance option. However, dynamic dampers are way more complex to tune, making it difficult to get the setup "just right" for a specific race track. Only very advanced racing teams are be able to fully leverage the benefits of adaptive dampers. For amateur or semi-pro racing teams, it makes more sense to have manually tunable dampers to be able to more easily fine tune the handling of the car for a specific track. Many racing series ban active suspension including F-1 because of the great performance advantage they offer. As I stated previously, fixed non-adjustable dampers are on the lowest end of the performance spectrum because their tuning needs to be compromised to accommodate a broad range of driving conditions. Adaptive dampers might not be "optimal" for every condition, but they are more so than fixed dampers due to their inherent adaptability.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Well I guess by that reasoning since two hardcore, limited-production, track-focus vehicles didn't incorporate this technology; it's worthless and didn't contain any substantive value to the average M car consumer.

You win

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The 7:38 time for the M3cs is a factory time while the 7:37 from the M4GTS is the AMS Supertest time. The factory time for the M4GTS is 7:28.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Benzima

M2 CS will be a MY2020 or MY2021?

My guess is MY2021 to avoid overlapping with the F82 M4cs and fill the gap until the next gen M4cs.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The 7:38 time for the M3cs is a factory time while the 7:37 from the M4GTS is the AMS Supertest time. The factory time for the M4GTS is 7:28.

I think you're misinterpreting my intentions..

That's an impressive lap time for a vehicle with the controversial adaptive suspension, which I was using to sarcastically illustrate its perceived disadvantage, in contrast to vehicles with passive suspension.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I think you're misinterpreting my intentions..

That's an impressive lap time for a vehicle with the controversial adaptive suspension, which I was using to sarcastically illustrate its perceived disadvantage, in contrast to vehicles with passive suspension.

Although, I find this one at 6:47.3, also on adaptive dampers, far more impressive

[MDuckie]

Originally Posted by N54

Didn’t Scott26 say that the first CSL will be on the M8 and or M4?

And that were was no time for a CSL before the F87 production ends?

This.

They aren't going to bring back the CSL badge on an entry level EOP car.