[as7920]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Never understood the clamoring for adaptive suspension. I have passive on my F80 and love it, less buttons, less weight, less complexity.......

you have 3 cars! I have just the one. An M2 with fixed suspension which is great for daily duties. But could do with some (easy) adjustment for "fun" drives. For various reasons I am unable to run more than the 1 car myself.

[N54]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The big difference there is that the ...35/40i, in whatever trim, is some limp wristed, half-assed sales gimmick. Just like the Audi S line...BMW even made marketing literature to show the parallel.

On the other hand...an M is an M, and it's different. If someone thinks their ...35/40i is the same, they just don't get it.

Whilst I agree M is an M the new M340i looks pretty impressive.

Faster than an E90 M3, and with XD a great daily drive, not a gimmick IMHO.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by N54

Whilst I agree M is an M the new M340i looks pretty impressive.

Faster than an E90 M3, and with XD a great daily drive, not a gimmick IMHO.

Perhaps gimmick was too strong of a word...my point is that the base cars used to be really, really good in their own right. And now you need an "M performance" model to get a decent BMW.

Does that distinction make sense? Just make the base cars really good and have a true M...that makes more sense to me anyway.

[N54]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Perhaps gimmick was too strong of a word...my point is that the base cars used to be really, really good in their own right. And now you need an "M performance" model to get a decent BMW.

Does that distinction make sense? Just make the base cars really good and have a true M...that makes more sense to me anyway.

Guess it depends what you mean by decent?

The new G20 3 series is supppsely to be the new class leader on handling which is good news.

M cars have become sooo expensive now, the M Performance models have filled the gap whilst remaining relatively affordable.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

M3/M4 CS wasn't exactly flying off the dealerships and into people's home like they had anticipated...lots have to be heavily discounted before they will move

Perhaps now they realise there is more money on the table by cutting down the CS tax and sell more volumes

True, but the M2C is selling at MSRP or above easily. The F80s were being sold at invoice. So the real gap between what you could originally get an M3CS for (MSRP) and the base model was more like 40k.

If the M2CS has less improvements over the base model than the M3CS has over its base model then I could see a 10k price difference. Guess it all boils down to how much of an improvement it'll be.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

You also gave the Toyota Supra fans a master class lately ? (source: here)

Attachment 1999496

It's amazing how that autoblog article is full of errors, and not on the speculations, but on actual facts

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

I think the problem is the need for a button on the part of Marketing.

If it were truly Adaptive, it would be able to give a Magic Carpet ride with no roll or pitch from a single setting.

You realize that the amount of roll and pitch is dependent on the spring rates and not the damping rate?

Changing the damper rate only alters how fast the car rolls and pitches, but does not alter how much it rolls and pitches.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by N54

M cars have become sooo expensive now, the M Performance models have filled the gap whilst remaining relatively affordable.

Have they?

When I actualize what I paid for my stripper E46 M3 back in 2001 at a 2% inflation rate, my top of the line 2019 M4cs is only ~6% more expensive (~$4.5k USD). I actually find ///M cars have become more affordable. But that could maybe be only a reality in Canada...

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You realize that the amount of roll and pitch is dependent on the spring rates and not the damping rate?

Changing the damper rate only alters how fast the car rolls and pitches, but does not alter how much it rolls and pitches.

Hey,

You own an M4 CS; do you believe the M Adaptive Suspension is more beneficial over the static dampers?

I assume the M2 CS will share the identical hardware, so the question is most relevant.

Edit: Nevermind, I already found your answer on the subject

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18794482

[M2C89]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

So ... it's an M4?

lol, my thoughts exactly.

Originally Posted by emdeuce

Ah, because the S55 doesn't already produce that kind of HP else where? I guess people will be paying extra for the roof and badging?

This.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by e92_m3

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the price for this car will end up over $70k with dealer markup. That's GS vette, Camaro ZL1 territory pricing. You could also save $10K by getting a gt350, with 526 HP.

Specs look good on paper nonetheless! Manual option makes it even better.

Just really curious on the final MSRP for the M2 CS...

My dealer guessed 85k for CS version today when I was there. You did name some very good cars in or under that price range tho. All 3 you mention would be on my list and are incredible if you want American iron . And man... that flat plane crank motor Ford put in the GT 350. Wow....

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by cntzl

CCB is mainly for BMW to be able to say they dropped significant amount of weight. In the press release, they will probably say they dropped the weight by 100+lbs and a major part of it will be thanks to CCB. In reality, very few people will option the $8K CCBs.

Might Be worth it just to eliminate the brake dust lol.

[babym2]

still going to sound like crap, and who would pay 80k for this when you can get a cayman s or a used 991.2 lol

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Not necessarily true. The base M3 and comp pkg both have 406lb/ft of torque with the comp pkg adding a 19hp bump. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference in power driving the two. The M3 cs however gets a slight bump in hp above the comp pkg (I think only 9hp) but it gets a hefty boost in torque of +37lb/ft. The cs def feels faster than the base/comp variants.

The claimed 9 hp bump is peak HP and does not tell the whole story. On the M3 CS Dyno graphs there are some areas of the curve that show 30 to 37 more horsepower. That plus the increased torque are what makes the CS feel quicker me thinks.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Also, since you already tell us so much about it, can you comment on the hood that we found is carbon fiber from spy shots and that's missing from your report?

Since our reliable source ynguldyn is reluctant to reply on the carbon hood, I'll take that as a NO. (Mind you he went as far as clarify the suspension setup).

It looks to me BMW is saving the hood, fender and trunk for the MY2021 CSL. Along with the GTS seat, more stripped interior, roll cage, new wheel, adjustable coilover, CCB standard, the water injected S55 and some special color, enough new stuff inside and out to market the car as the CSL and ask mildly optioned 911 base money.

Well, if they want to make a proper CSL comeback, they need to put in the 500hp S58 and a revised front end (for the S58 air flow and for the exclusive CSL look at the same time).

That's the car I'd pay double base car money for.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Since our reliable source ynguldyn is reluctant to reply on the carbon hood, I'll take that as a NO. (Mind you he went as far as clarify the suspension setup).
It looks to me BMW is saving the hood, fender and trunk for the CSL. Along with the GTS seat, more stripped interior, roll cage, CCB standard, the water injected S55 and some special color, enough new stuff inside and out to market the car as the CSL and ask mildly optioned 911 base money.
Well, if they want to make a proper CSL comeback, they need to put in the 500hp S58 and a revised front end (for the S58 air flow and for the exclusive CSL look at the same time).
That's the car I'd pay double base car money for.

Post from the past:

Originally Posted by Artemis

My take (and no, I genuinely don't know whether BMW M will release an M2 CSL in 2019/2020, but I truly hope they do):

• if it's an "M2 CS", I expect to see 4 seats (BMW M boss Frank Van Meel mentioned that a CS version gets you 4-seats);
• if it's an "M2 CSL", I expect to see 2 seats (from hindsight, quite peculiar that BMW M didn't throw the backseats out of the E46 M3 CSL).

Van Meel said that the CSL designation will replace GTS on the four-rung hierarchy of M cars, which starts with the base model then progresses to Competition Pack, CS, then CSL. Like the GTS, CSLs will be BMW M's most hardcore offerings.
«CSL [will be] the top-of-the-line track tool, made on the track for the track, just with a number plate,» Van Meel said. With a CSL, you can expect cup tires, coilover suspension, a roll cage, water injection, and a fire extinguisher. Van Meel says that the CS on the other hand is «also a track tool, but with four seats,» and more emphasis on comfort.
(source: here (Sep 2017))

IMHO the M2 MotoGP Safety Car has provided inspiration for the M2 CSL interior (source: see here):

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Since our reliable source ynguldyn is reluctant to reply on the carbon hood, I'll take that as a NO. (Mind you he went as far as clarify the suspension setup).

It looks to me BMW is saving the hood, fender and trunk for the MY2021 CSL. Along with the GTS seat, more stripped interior, roll cage, new wheel, adjustable coilover, CCB standard, the water injected S55 and some special color, enough new stuff inside and out to market the car as the CSL and ask mildly optioned 911 base money.

Well, if they want to make a proper CSL comeback, they need to put in the 500hp S58 and a revised front end (for the S58 air flow and for the exclusive CSL look at the same time).

That's the car I'd pay double base car money for.

CS test mules so far seem to have the CF roof and CF hood (both wrapped). Since ynguldyn mentioned CF roof as being "standard", I'm thinking CF hood might be a factory installed option just like CCB.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You realize that the amount of roll and pitch is dependent on the spring rates and not the damping rate?

Changing the damper rate only alters how fast the car rolls and pitches, but does not alter how much it rolls and pitches.

Exactly. I've ridden off-road motorcycles my whole life and you learn a LOT about how suspension works. This is why when you are making damping adjustments (regardless of active or passive) they are named "fast and slow", not "stiff and soft". Rebound and compression damping "speeds" are different too. Also a sharp hit will have a different damp rate than a a soft (rolling) hit.

[chris719]

Better damping might let you run higher spring rates comfortably, that's probably where the confusion comes from.

Either way, they are a system and should be treated as such. I always cringe when I see aftermarket lowering springs on a car like this.

[ramy_who]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The big difference there is that the ...35/40i, in whatever trim, is some limp wristed, half-assed sales gimmick. Just like the Audi S line...BMW even made marketing literature to show the parallel.

On the other hand...an M is an M, and it's different. If someone thinks their ...35/40i is the same, they just don't get it.

I wouldn’t call it a sales gimmick. Having driven a 240, I can tell you that it’s very capable sports coupe. As a daily driver it outperforms the M2.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by N54

Whilst I agree M is an M the new M340i looks pretty impressive.

Faster than an E90 M3, and with XD a great daily drive, not a gimmick IMHO.

The performance specs on the new M340i look quite good for a family sedan
0-60 specs and HP numbers are right up there with the new Toyota Supra only with more room and space on the inside.

[N54]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Have they?

When I actualize what I paid for my stripper E46 M3 back in 2001 at a 2% inflation rate, my top of the line 2019 M4cs is only ~6% more expensive (~$4.5k USD). I actually find ///M cars have become more affordable. But that could maybe be only a reality in Canada...

They certainly aren’t more affordable here in Blighty!