BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > BMW M2 CS CFRP roof weave issues: "Garching, we have a problem" ?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #1
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,048
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

BMW M2 CS CFRP roof weave issues: "Garching, we have a problem" ?

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) weave patterns: see for example here ("Carbon Fiber - All Patterns Explained").

CFRP roof - smaller sized weave pattern: for example BMW M4 Edition M Heritage (F82):
Name:  CFRP_Roof_2x2_weave.jpg
Views: 16288
Size:  473.9 KB

CFRP roof - bigger sized weave pattern ('checker/chess board' look): for example BMW M2 CS (F87):
Name:  CFRP_Roof_1x1_weave.jpg
Views: 16520
Size:  275.1 KB

The 'shark fin' on BMW M CFRP roofs is gloss black (a CFRP housing would be less optimal for the antenna signal).

The BMW M2 CS features a new type of CFRP roof:
"The new roof, with its sandwich design, makes the body more rigid and appears to have been cut from the same mould as the rest of the car; no trim strips are needed, meaning no visible join[t]s either. This has the additional effect of enhancing acoustics, both inside and outside the car. And dispensing with the customary roof bows and insulation also saves weight. Together with the lighter bonnet, this serves to lower the vehicle’s centre of gravity, resulting in even better driving dynamics."
(source: BMW press materials - see here)
A couple of peculiarities about the BMW M2 CS roof:
  • only available on the BMW M2 CS;
  • sandwich-structured composite for improved rigidity, structurally integrated;
  • no roof rack anchorage points (roof drip rail with flaps);
  • bigger sized weave pattern ('checker/chess board' look), unlike all other BMW M2 CS CFRP parts (smaller sized weave pattern) (no size uniformity, which in itself is a peculiar design choice).
Now here's the problem. It appears that CFRP roofs of several BMW M2 CS cars feature sections with irregular weave patterns (see pictures below).

Rather puzzling how this sloppy look made it through BMW M quality control.

A Bimmerpost forum member heard through the grapevine more about this aesthetic issue and, unfortunately, it sounds a little embarrassing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
You have previously interviewed the M guys. Did you ask them why the M2 CS doesn’t have the same carbon fiber roof as the F80 and F82?
Yep, this improved rigidity and was a better option according [to] them, but clearly they did not explain the whole story. With the additional information I can confirm no other M car will have this roof. Nobody wants to take the risk of dealing with a fail again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
I'm captivated, can you explain more?
Nothing more than that the solution for those problems came too late to homologate the car and have it in time ready for market release. Europe would have missed out too much on the CS due to the production stop in September.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
It sounds like they're partially handmade to be able to introduce this level of irregularity?
They are partly hand made to deal with the irregularity. The production process was initially wrong, but the fix came too late. So all the cars I have seen so far have the problem in the roof, simply because the fix could not be introduced anymore in time. Now it needs handwork to deal with it. They tint it to give you the idea it is so bad. #facepalm
The aesthetic issue was also pointed out in this video (see 05:39 to 06:54).

Examples on BMW M2 CS cars (demo cars as well as production/delivered cars):

Name:  M2_CS_Roof_Issue_01.jpg
Views: 16226
Size:  126.1 KB

Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof.jpg
Views: 6019
Size:  301.9 KB

Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_US.jpg
Views: 2871
Size:  201.6 KB

Name:  M2_CS_Raclettte.jpg
Views: 2504
Size:  254.9 KB

Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_03b.jpg
Views: 4613
Size:  155.2 KB

Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_02.jpg
Views: 5246
Size:  158.5 KB

Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_03c.jpg
Views: 4010
Size:  139.1 KB

Name:  M2_CS_Roof_Issue_04.jpg
Views: 13654
Size:  42.0 KB

Name:  M2_CS_Roof_Issue_02.jpg
Views: 13625
Size:  54.7 KB

Name:  M2_CS_Roof_Issue_03.jpg
Views: 14656
Size:  89.3 KB

Name:  M2_CS_Roof_Issue_05.jpg
Views: 13644
Size:  68.8 KB
(picture sources: here, here, here, here, here and here)

The aesthetic issue was already noticed on the BMW M2 CS press car on display in Los Angeles (Autumn 2019):
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinionM3 View Post
All these posts from the autoshow and nobody noticed the imperfection in the roof weave!?!?! If this was my car from factory I'd be furious!

Hope the production models don't have this....



A BMW M2 CS owner approached the aesthetic issue with a positive twist:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
Same spec here, I agree on the roof not being perfect, but all those imperfections are unique ! No car is the same as the other !

For the record: BMW M2 CS test car in Summer 2019 revealing ...a smaller sized weave CFRP roof (or a wrap):

(source: here)

M Performance Parts CFRP roof for the original BMW M2 and the BMW M2 Competition (BMW part # 41 31 2 460 277): smaller sized weave pattern:

(source: here)
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 4
aajami429.50
Poochie9099.00
1M Tex240.00
      10-11-2020, 01:55 PM   #2
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

If my M2CS has any roof defects I'll certainly have a conversation with BMW USA. We don't really have the option to have another car built, or have the roof replaced. Hopefully no one is seeing this on the non press cars.
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2020, 02:42 PM   #3
gemini.m3
Major
gemini.m3's Avatar
1496
Rep
1,297
Posts

Drives: 2022 M3 xDrive comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
If my M2CS has any roof defects I'll certainly have a conversation with BMW USA. We don't really have the option to have another car built, or have the roof replaced. Hopefully no one is seeing this on the non press cars.
Looks like Turbomeister has it- hopefully they got it better as production went on

You could look at it two ways, I’d prefer glass half full and that if this ends up being the only bmw with this pattern- pretty rare, defects and all

On the flip side not real acceptable IMO. Seems like with covid halting production they really pushed these cars out ASAP.
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2020, 02:50 PM   #4
Hedoniste
Lieutenant Colonel
Hedoniste's Avatar
No_Country
3771
Rep
1,665
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | M135i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Swiss Alps

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M2 CS  [10.00]
I didn't see any problem on the CS I bought but it was raining. I will pick up the car on Wednesday and I hope to be quickly able to inspect the roof under direct sunlight. I will post here asap my feedback. Thanks for creating this thread
__________________
2020 M2 CS DCT
2021 M135i xDrive
ex: 18 M3 DCT ZCP | 15 M3 DCT | 11 M3 Coupe 6MT ZCP | 07 M Coupe
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2020, 03:06 PM   #5
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

I liken this to a run in the paint. Each roof is like a snowflake . You don't get a numbered car, just a unique defect.
Appreciate 6
Hedoniste3770.50
F87EVO4004.00
///BYU268.50
Tornado1M1206.00
Artemis28913.00
M2forme84.00
      10-11-2020, 03:44 PM   #6
F87EVO
Major
F87EVO's Avatar
Cyprus
4004
Rep
1,221
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
My guess is that every M2 CS has those imperfections , but not at the same places. Of course its not a deal braker , and it would rather be perfect than "unique" , but now its over , just take that approach , it was first tested on the M2 CS , each car/roof is unique with those small imperfections. Coming from the OG M2 , i love the CFRP roof , looks like a racing flag ! 🏁 by the way , those imperfections are so minimal in reality , and i also have to admit that the 1x1 weave on the M2 CS is much better looking than the 2x2 . I will provide more photos of the roof tomorrow.

Name:  01602449084.jpeg
Views: 13516
Size:  405.5 KB

Name:  01602449087.jpeg
Views: 13581
Size:  976.6 KB

Name:  01602449093.jpeg
Views: 13617
Size:  1.07 MB

Name:  01602449100.jpeg
Views: 13502
Size:  808.5 KB
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
Appreciate 10
Davil6333.50
isN5454.00
1230vani637.00
Tornado1M1206.00
Ftpohyeah283.00
Bimmed Out1908.50
SYT_Shadow11421.00
1M Tex240.00
      10-11-2020, 03:58 PM   #7
Supadice
Captain
Supadice's Avatar
1018
Rep
692
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2CS
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Hoboken, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
My guess is that every M2 CS has those imperfections , but not at the same places. Of course its not a deal braker , and it would rather be perfect than now , but now its over , just take that approach , it was first tested on the M2 CS , each car/roof is unique with those small imperfections. Coming from the OG M2 , i love the CFRP roof , looks like a racing flag ! 🏁 by the way , those imperfections are so minimal in reality , and i also have to admit that the 1x1 weave on the M2 CS is much better looking than the 2x2 . I will provide more photos of the roof tomorrow.
Your roof looks pretty good
__________________
Vic
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2020, 04:04 PM   #8
VisualEcho
Banned
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
6626
Rep
4,145
Posts

Drives: '18 M2 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [10.00]
As long as it doesn't crack or peel like the older ones.
Appreciate 3
F87EVO4004.00
Poochie9099.00
Bimmed Out1908.50
      10-11-2020, 04:04 PM   #9
F87EVO
Major
F87EVO's Avatar
Cyprus
4004
Rep
1,221
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supadice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
My guess is that every M2 CS has those imperfections , but not at the same places. Of course its not a deal braker , and it would rather be perfect than now , but now its over , just take that approach , it was first tested on the M2 CS , each car/roof is unique with those small imperfections. Coming from the OG M2 , i love the CFRP roof , looks like a racing flag ! 🏁 by the way , those imperfections are so minimal in reality , and i also have to admit that the 1x1 weave on the M2 CS is much better looking than the 2x2 . I will provide more photos of the roof tomorrow.
Your roof looks pretty good
It has some imperfections but not huge deal ..some roofs look "better" and some other look "worse" . But again , not a big deal , yes for the money it may be unacceptable , but "unique" at the same time.

At least looks like a real CF roof , not just a CF wrap !

Looks handmade too - maybe is ?!
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
Appreciate 2
      10-11-2020, 04:06 PM   #10
F87EVO
Major
F87EVO's Avatar
Cyprus
4004
Rep
1,221
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
As long as it doesn't crack or peel like the older ones.
That would be an issue ! Buuuut , for real now it seems too strong for that case. It feels too , i ve sat on the roof
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
Appreciate 1
      10-11-2020, 04:21 PM   #11
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
2129
Rep
1,689
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, X5 45e, i3, Cayman S
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

my wife and I were discussing this last night and she said that if it was really bad I should put a CF vinyl wrap on it, "It's not fake, because it really is CF under" LOL
__________________
M2 CS
2023 CB X5 45e
2018 i3 94
2014 Cayman S
Appreciate 1
      10-11-2020, 04:32 PM   #12
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,048
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
As long as it doesn't crack or peel like the older ones.
This one on a 2015 F80 M3 didn't age well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1eye View Post
This is what my 2015 M3's carbon fiber roof looks like. It started peeling at around the 3.5 year mark. I have taken it to multiple BMW service centers but BMW refuses to fix it even though it was under warranty. They say the reason for the peeling is rocks hitting the car even thought it is peeling in the middle and the back of the roof. For the first 3 years I drove the same road and if there rocks hitting the roof why didn't it start peeling sooner.



Has anyone had similar issues with the CB roof?

Name:  2015_M3_CFRP_Roof.jpg
Views: 10391
Size:  362.5 KB
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
Poochie9099.00
      10-11-2020, 05:06 PM   #13
VisualEcho
Banned
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
6626
Rep
4,145
Posts

Drives: '18 M2 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
This one on a 2015 F80 M3 didn't age well:
Dude, I would be so sick if that happened to me. It's enough to make me stay away from CF roofs altogether.

But if I'm honest, I'm just mad they didn't make it forged carbon fiber. They could have toned it down a bit and it would have looked (and performed) awesome.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2020, 08:26 PM   #14
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
10054
Rep
8,567
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I would say for the price this is unacceptable... but seeing how this is a new weave, it doesn't surprise me... what would get me are cracks... a friends F80 started developing cracks after 4 years... FYI - no one can fix CF correctly... and how do you replace it?
Appreciate 2
chris7197273.00
dmboone254970.50
      10-13-2020, 10:41 AM   #15
BimR
Lieutenant
245
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: 2016 328
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
As long as it doesn't crack or peel like the older ones.
This one on a 2015 F80 M3 didn't age well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1eye View Post
This is what my 2015 M3's carbon fiber roof looks like. It started peeling at around the 3.5 year mark. I have taken it to multiple BMW service centers but BMW refuses to fix it even though it was under warranty. They say the reason for the peeling is rocks hitting the car even thought it is peeling in the middle and the back of the roof. For the first 3 years I drove the same road and if there rocks hitting the roof why didn't it start peeling sooner.



Has anyone had similar issues with the CB roof?

Attachment 2436840
This is horrible! The small imperfections are annoying but unless I'm misunderstanding, this is peeling badly.
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2020, 10:49 AM   #16
JustChris
General
JustChris's Avatar
No_Country
17426
Rep
25,089
Posts

Drives: Tesla MYRWD
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Not good, I wish owners well in resolving if they have issues.....but I will say this.

Fair play to Bimmerpost for not hiding this and making it front page.
__________________
My car made front page of Bimmerpost
Appreciate 2
A6bullet336.00
      10-13-2020, 10:54 AM   #17
01'325rip
Captain
85
Rep
774
Posts

Drives: 08' E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: the sky

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Dude, I would be so sick if that happened to me. It's enough to make me stay away from CF roofs altogether.

But if I'm honest, I'm just mad they didn't make it forged carbon fiber. They could have toned it down a bit and it would have looked (and performed) awesome.
As cool as this would be, forged carbon would not work on the roof. You need something with more structural integrity. Forged carbon is more for aesthetic pieces because it lacks in strength vs twill and directional weave.
Appreciate 2
F80_Katz760.00
VisualEcho6625.50
      10-13-2020, 10:59 AM   #18
gds52
Colonel
gds52's Avatar
886
Rep
2,720
Posts

Drives: BMW Z4M Coupe, BMW 328i E93 Co
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

BMW hired Tesla workers
Appreciate 4
clbmw631.00
Hedoniste3770.50
      10-13-2020, 11:01 AM   #19
1bmwaddict
No music no life....
1bmwaddict's Avatar
775
Rep
704
Posts

Drives: 22" F95
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Palm Beach

iTrader: (3)

Thats why you dont buy the first batch!
__________________
RETIRED: '18 SMB M3CS
RETIRED: '16 MB M4GTS
RETIRED: '16 BLK M2
Appreciate 1
      10-13-2020, 11:07 AM   #20
frankiebones
Brigadier General
frankiebones's Avatar
5297
Rep
3,056
Posts

Drives: Fire Orange G80 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
My guess is that every M2 CS has those imperfections , but not at the same places. Of course its not a deal braker , and it would rather be perfect than "unique" , but now its over , just take that approach , it was first tested on the M2 CS , each car/roof is unique with those small imperfections. Coming from the OG M2 , i love the CFRP roof , looks like a racing flag ! by the way , those imperfections are so minimal in reality , and i also have to admit that the 1x1 weave on the M2 CS is much better looking than the 2x2 . I will provide more photos of the roof tomorrow.
Attachment 2435412
Attachment 2435413
Attachment 2435414
Attachment 2435415
The color of the roof is stunning and looks lighter than a normal CF roof. I am correct?
__________________
Fire Orange 6MT G80 (Miss July, 2021 Cover of Bimmerpost)
SMB M3 CS (gone)
YMB F80 6MT (gone)
Appreciate 2
      10-13-2020, 11:08 AM   #21
Luminor513
Major
Luminor513's Avatar
1243
Rep
1,492
Posts

Drives: 2020 G07 x40i BSM/Blk Merino
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Some of these look like they could be some kind of environmental damage, maybe prolonged exposure to something?
__________________
2020 G07 x40i BSM/Blk Merino
2022 Audi E-tron S Mythos Blk/Blk Valcona
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2020, 11:11 AM   #22
biggripper
Captain
biggripper's Avatar
676
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 M3 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
As long as it doesn't crack or peel like the older ones.
This one on a 2015 F80 M3 didn't age well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1eye View Post
This is what my 2015 M3's carbon fiber roof looks like. It started peeling at around the 3.5 year mark. I have taken it to multiple BMW service centers but BMW refuses to fix it even though it was under warranty. They say the reason for the peeling is rocks hitting the car even thought it is peeling in the middle and the back of the roof. For the first 3 years I drove the same road and if there rocks hitting the roof why didn't it start peeling sooner.



Has anyone had similar issues with the CB roof?

Attachment 2436840
This is part of the reason that I covered my entire roof in Xpel on my '16 M4 when I sold the car in 2019 it still looked perfect.
__________________
CURRENT///G80 M3CX | Isle Of Man Green | Kyalami Orange | Bi-Color 826M Wheels
FORMER ///F80 M3 ZCP | Yas Marina Blue | Black | DCT | Black 666M Wheels
FORMER ///F87 M2C | Alpine White/Orange | DCT | Black 788M Wheels
FORMER ///F87 M2C | Sunset Orange/Orange | 6MT | Black 788M Wheels
FORMER ///F82 M4 | SSII | Full SO | 6MT | Black 437M Wheels
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST