6MT 1st Gear Lockout

AndrewC1989 · 01-15-2019, 09:54 AM

I've already seen and read several threads related to this but wanted to create my own as my situation seems to be a little more specific/different than what I've been reading elsewhere.

Occasionally I will be at a complete stop and try to go from neutral to 1st and after engaging about half way I will simply feel resistance and the gear will not fully engage. If I slowly start to let the clutch out and continue pushing into 1st it will then engage.

My powertrain is stock and I do not have (nor have ever had) an aftermarket clutch stop installed. It's not happening often enough to where I feel a dealer could take the car and recreate the issue so I haven't brought it up to my service advisor yet but I feel like I might eventually have to because it's kind of annoying when it does occur.

Anyone else experience this issue? Any suggestions/advice? Thanks.

Altra · 01-15-2019, 10:39 AM

I've had this happen a few times in the M2, both with and without clutch stop, as well as my previous BRZ. I usually go into 2nd then 1st, but letting the clutch out slowly works too. I think it's something to do with the syncros not lining upright causing the partial lockout, that rolling forward, slowly letting clutch out, or popping it into 2nd then 1st usually fixes.

That said, it seems to be somewhat normal for manual cars, buddy has a 6MT Nissan Juke and Fairlady Z, another with a FRS that occasionally locked them out of first at a stop here and there.

Fear-Mongrel · 01-15-2019, 10:41 AM

I've followed most/all of the same threads, Andrew, but more because my experience with the M2 6MT has been so easy and trouble-free for the 9 months/5K miles I've had it but I want to be up to speed with everyone else if anything pops up with mine.

Mine has done exactly what yours does, but only once and only when the car is cold and on cold mornings. If it does it once, that's it for the rest of the drive, and once the car is warm the 6MT is like butter in every gear. Because it happens so infrequently, and only when the car is cold on a cold morning (45 degrees or so here in AZ - still warm for most of you), I've never given it a 2nd thought. And I don't think I've ever had a manual transmission that didn't act ornery in one gear or another at one time or another. If there's a manual that doesn't act sticky or feisty and is flawless 100% of the time, I've never met it.

My car is stock, no clutch stop, zero mechanical mods.

termigni · 01-15-2019, 10:51 AM

I've driven MT cars and motorcycles for about 2 decades and I call it normal.

AndrewC1989 · 01-15-2019, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altra

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Quote:

Originally Posted by afwares

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Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

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I've had the car for about 2 years now and I've only noticed this happening in the last few months so I'm not sure I feel comfortable writing it off as totally normal. If it were something that I noticed from day 1 perhaps I'd be more inclined to shrug it off but that isn't the case.

I've made a service appointment just to document the problem incase it should get worse or happen more frequently. I'm sure absolutely nothing will be done about it (per usual) but I guess it's more proactive than hoping it will go away on its own.

I'll report back once the car is serviced. Thanks for your inputs.

F87source · 01-15-2019, 04:19 PM

Yeah this happens to me but from 1st to 2nd. This also happened on my frs and Evo x, but the Evo was really bad during cold starts and when the transmission was cold, there's a fix called the redline cock tail transmission fluid mix, but it's untried in the BMW world. I'd like to give it a shot but my issue occurs so little it's hard to tell if it is an issue at all.

AndrewC1989 · 01-15-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

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I'm def not going to be touching the tranny fluid myself since my car is still under warranty. If a dealer sees it's been changed or messed with and my transmission takes a shit they're going to fight me tooth and nail to deny any claim I attempt to make. Just gonna let them attempt to sort it out. Worst case scenario I'll just live with it.

F87source · 01-15-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewc89

I'm def not going to be touching the tranny fluid myself since my car is still under warranty. If a dealer sees it's been changed or messed with and my transmission takes a shit they're going to fight me tooth and nail to deny any claim I attempt to make. Just gonna let them attempt to sort it out. Worst case scenario I'll just live with it.

Yeah if you're under warranty it's best to just leave it as is unless you're willing to explore.

Same thing goes with mods, it's all about risk tolerance.

AndrewC1989 · 01-15-2019, 08:39 PM

After doing some more googling and research I found this thread:

https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.p...-problem.7210/

TLDR: a guy with an '06 E90 6MT was having the exact same issues as I described and having the dealer replace his transmission fluid seems to have done the trick for him. Will see if I can have my dealer do the same for me.

detroitm2 · 01-15-2019, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

I've driven MT cars and motorcycles for about 2 decades and I call it normal.

Came here to say this. It's 100% normal for a MT car to do this. Don't know exactly why, but literally every car I've driven had a sticky first gear, mostly when cold.

F87source · 01-15-2019, 09:22 PM

maybe because the fluid needs to be warmed up before the synchros can engage properly, or maybe the clutch line isn't bled properly idk. I mean if it does happen on the dct you can't really tell can you? Or maybe the computer just forces it anyways.

Poochie · 01-15-2019, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewc89

After doing some more googling and research I found this thread:

https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.p...-problem.7210/

TLDR: a guy with an '06 E90 6MT was having the exact same issues as I described and having the dealer replace his transmission fluid seems to have done the trick for him. Will see if I can have my dealer do the same for me.

I doubt this will fix your issue unless you change to a different viscosity beside the OEM liquid..

I suggest you research Motul gearbox oil but a lower weight than the stock 75W-90.

Good luck and keep us updated.

https://www.motul.com/in/en/lubrican...a94000153c87dd

Artemis · 01-16-2019, 11:32 AM

Good idea to report it to your dealer. Let him replace the transmission fluid - don't do it yourself now or you could face a discussion later if an issue happens.

Some quick questions: when parking your car on a slope, do you leave the car in 1st gear or do you use the handbrake ? Do you sometimes shift into first gear when still moving ? Do you always row through all the gears when coming to a stop or sometimes go straight from 3rd gear (or higher gear) to neutral when slowing down to a stop ? Does your car usually sleep outside (cold engine on a cold morning) ?

AndrewC1989 · 01-16-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

when parking your car on a slope, do you leave the car in 1st gear or do you use the handbrake ?

I only use the handbrake when parking, I never leave it in gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Do you sometimes shift into first gear when still moving ?

Have done it a few times but very rarely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Do you always row through all the gears when coming to a stop or sometimes go straight from 3rd gear (or higher gear) to neutral when slowing down to a stop ?

Normally I row down to 2nd gear and then go from 2nd to neutral and use the brakes from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Does your car usually sleep outside (cold engine on a cold morning) ?

It's garaged 100% of the time but my garage is not heated. Also not my DD so it will sit for a few days without being started.

LuvMyE92 · 01-16-2019, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

I've driven MT cars and motorcycles for about 2 decades and I call it normal.

Four decades, +++. All manual transmission cars do this to some extent, typically worse when cold.

I will often put it in neutral, let out the clutch, blip the throttle, put it into first, which gives the synchros a chance to align properly.

M Fifty · 01-16-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

I doubt this will fix your issue unless you change to a different viscosity beside the OEM liquid..

I suggest you research Motul gearbox oil but a lower weight than the stock 75W-90.

Good luck and keep us updated.

https://www.motul.com/in/en/lubrican...a94000153c87dd

Oddly, the same viscosity but with more or less in the way of friction modifiers could help. Just a thought.

AndrewC1989 · 01-16-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Four decades, +++. All manual transmission cars do this to some extent, typically worse when cold.

Yeah, I'm starting to think it might be something as simple as the gearbox oil being cold. With the low temperatures in the north east currently and the fact that I don't drive my car that much it seems like a plausible explanation. Will have to start paying more attention to how cold/warm the car is when this lockout occurs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I will often put it in neutral, let out the clutch, blip the throttle, put it into first, which gives the synchros a chance to align properly.

It's just annoying to have to do stuff like that when you're at a light that just turned green. Then you have to fumble with the gear lever and clutch while people behind you start getting impatient/start honking. Maybe that doesn't bother some of you that much but I always feel kind of embarrassed when it happens.

M Fifty · 01-16-2019, 12:48 PM

Go watch Bullitt again. Based on the engine sounds during the car chase, McQueen's character is double-declutching on every shift...

///M Houbi · 01-16-2019, 01:52 PM

2 decades BMW MT. 2 x E46 and M2C, all the same. When cold 1st to 2nd often needs some love to get it in. But once properly warmed up things go very smooth.

detroitm2 · 01-16-2019, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewc89

It's just annoying to have to do stuff like that when you're at a light that just turned green. Then you have to fumble with the gear lever and clutch while people behind you start getting impatient/start honking. Maybe that doesn't bother some of you that much but I always feel kind of embarrassed when it happens.

Just let up on the clutch a bit if you encounter resistance. It almost always works.

jmh600cbr · 01-16-2019, 03:26 PM

Normal on MT this is my 5th MT and it happens. Pop to 2nd then first.

No one · 01-16-2019, 04:09 PM

When synchronisation is failing (or absent - I had a severe issue with my reverse gear when brand new, resolved by running in, but I had to recall the trick to defeat inability to reverse

) do the following.

In the neutral (the clutch pedal is fully released) rev the engine up slightly (sufficiently

), release the accelerator and immediately(!) engage the gear (declutch, move the lever). This is applicable when changing gears (down) too (if necessary) - engage the neutral first, apply the trick as described.

Regarding cold (winter frost) gearbox - I never thought of trying to resolve the obvious high viscosity issue this way. I struggle to engage the 3rd or 4th, or any

first and then go down to what I need (1st, then reverse if needed). I'll see if it helps, thanks for the tip anyway!

01-15-2019, 09:54 AM	#1
AndrewC1989 Brigadier General 10911 Rep 4,541 Posts Drives: 2015 328d xDrive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (5) Garage List 2015 328d xDrive [8.75]	I've already seen and read several threads related to this but wanted to create my own as my situation seems to be a little more specific/different than what I've been reading elsewhere. Occasionally I will be at a complete stop and try to go from neutral to 1st and after engaging about half way I will simply feel resistance and the gear will not fully engage. If I slowly start to let the clutch out and continue pushing into 1st it will then engage. My powertrain is stock and I do not have (nor have ever had) an aftermarket clutch stop installed. It's not happening often enough to where I feel a dealer could take the car and recreate the issue so I haven't brought it up to my service advisor yet but I feel like I might eventually have to because it's kind of annoying when it does occur. Anyone else experience this issue? Any suggestions/advice? Thanks.
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01-15-2019, 10:39 AM	#2
Altra First Lieutenant 266 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 2016 AW M2 Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Orange County iTrader: (0)	I've had this happen a few times in the M2, both with and without clutch stop, as well as my previous BRZ. I usually go into 2nd then 1st, but letting the clutch out slowly works too. I think it's something to do with the syncros not lining upright causing the partial lockout, that rolling forward, slowly letting clutch out, or popping it into 2nd then 1st usually fixes. That said, it seems to be somewhat normal for manual cars, buddy has a 6MT Nissan Juke and Fairlady Z, another with a FRS that occasionally locked them out of first at a stop here and there.
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01-15-2019, 10:41 AM	#3
Fear-Mongrel Lieutenant 1184 Rep 571 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 LCI 6MT LBB Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Chandler, AZ iTrader: (0)	I've followed most/all of the same threads, Andrew, but more because my experience with the M2 6MT has been so easy and trouble-free for the 9 months/5K miles I've had it but I want to be up to speed with everyone else if anything pops up with mine. Mine has done exactly what yours does, but only once and only when the car is cold and on cold mornings. If it does it once, that's it for the rest of the drive, and once the car is warm the 6MT is like butter in every gear. Because it happens so infrequently, and only when the car is cold on a cold morning (45 degrees or so here in AZ - still warm for most of you), I've never given it a 2nd thought. And I don't think I've ever had a manual transmission that didn't act ornery in one gear or another at one time or another. If there's a manual that doesn't act sticky or feisty and is flawless 100% of the time, I've never met it. My car is stock, no clutch stop, zero mechanical mods.
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01-15-2019, 10:51 AM	#4
termigni Lieutenant Colonel 1080 Rep 1,761 Posts Drives: S2000, MacanS, M4CS Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M2 [0.00]	I've driven MT cars and motorcycles for about 2 decades and I call it normal. __________________ 2020 ///M4 CS, Alpine White, DCT 2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold Instagram: Tommys911
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01-15-2019, 04:19 PM	#6
F87source Major General 7238 Rep 7,418 Posts Drives: Bmw M2 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: . iTrader: (1)	Yeah this happens to me but from 1st to 2nd. This also happened on my frs and Evo x, but the Evo was really bad during cold starts and when the transmission was cold, there's a fix called the redline cock tail transmission fluid mix, but it's untried in the BMW world. I'd like to give it a shot but my issue occurs so little it's hard to tell if it is an issue at all. __________________ Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
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01-15-2019, 08:39 PM	#9
AndrewC1989 Brigadier General 10911 Rep 4,541 Posts Drives: 2015 328d xDrive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (5) Garage List 2015 328d xDrive [8.75]	After doing some more googling and research I found this thread: https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.p...-problem.7210/ TLDR: a guy with an '06 E90 6MT was having the exact same issues as I described and having the dealer replace his transmission fluid seems to have done the trick for him. Will see if I can have my dealer do the same for me.
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01-15-2019, 09:22 PM	#11
F87source Major General 7238 Rep 7,418 Posts Drives: Bmw M2 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: . iTrader: (1)	maybe because the fluid needs to be warmed up before the synchros can engage properly, or maybe the clutch line isn't bled properly idk. I mean if it does happen on the dct you can't really tell can you? Or maybe the computer just forces it anyways. __________________ Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
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01-16-2019, 11:32 AM	#13
Artemis Moderator 29278 Rep 13,090 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Competition Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	Good idea to report it to your dealer. Let him replace the transmission fluid - don't do it yourself now or you could face a discussion later if an issue happens. Some quick questions: when parking your car on a slope, do you leave the car in 1st gear or do you use the handbrake ? Do you sometimes shift into first gear when still moving ? Do you always row through all the gears when coming to a stop or sometimes go straight from 3rd gear (or higher gear) to neutral when slowing down to a stop ? Does your car usually sleep outside (cold engine on a cold morning) ? __________________ ///M is art ↔ Artemis
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01-16-2019, 12:48 PM	#18
M Fifty Banned 844 Rep 1,962 Posts Drives: M2 & 330CI Join Date: May 2018 Location: The Interweb iTrader: (0)	Go watch Bullitt again. Based on the engine sounds during the car chase, McQueen's character is double-declutching on every shift...
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01-16-2019, 01:52 PM	#19
///M Houbi Major 1653 Rep 1,237 Posts Drives: M2 Competition Join Date: May 2018 Location: Switzerland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 M2 Competition [0.00] 2003 E46 330Ci [0.00]	2 decades BMW MT. 2 x E46 and M2C, all the same. When cold 1st to 2nd often needs some love to get it in. But once properly warmed up things go very smooth. __________________ Instagram \| M2 Competition Build Thread \| A tribute to my E46 330Ci
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01-16-2019, 03:26 PM	#21
jmh600cbr Lieutenant 265 Rep 443 Posts Drives: G80 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0) Garage List 2021 BMW G80 [0.00]	Normal on MT this is my 5th MT and it happens. Pop to 2nd then first. __________________ 2018 F87 LCI gone but not forgotten 2021 G80 6MT BSM
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01-16-2019, 04:09 PM	#22
No one Major 1037 Rep 1,338 Posts Drives: F21 118i Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Undisclosed iTrader: (0)	When synchronisation is failing (or absent - I had a severe issue with my reverse gear when brand new, resolved by running in, but I had to recall the trick to defeat inability to reverse ) do the following. In the neutral (the clutch pedal is fully released) rev the engine up slightly (sufficiently ), release the accelerator and immediately(!) engage the gear (declutch, move the lever). This is applicable when changing gears (down) too (if necessary) - engage the neutral first, apply the trick as described. Regarding cold (winter frost) gearbox - I never thought of trying to resolve the obvious high viscosity issue this way. I struggle to engage the 3rd or 4th, or any first and then go down to what I need (1st, then reverse if needed). I'll see if it helps, thanks for the tip anyway!
	Appreciate 0 Quote