[DieGrüneHölle]

Great review. Added to the review master thread.

[Ole Red]

Been going through more reviews and watched the ring video. Ring vid seems to contradict most reviews, i.e. many reviews talk about the great front end, turn-in, grip, while the ring video shows a truly disgusting amount of understeer. Bald fronts and/or a cold day could certainly contribute, and a front sway / different tires could help. But what I'm getting at is a general trend with all reviews - more as marketing efforts (whether for the product being reviewed or for the reviewer) rather than true, complete, and un-biased reviews. I just don't trust them anymore, and second, the younger enthusiasts weren't even driving back when truly "raw" cars existed. So, what they consider <insert awesome millennial adjective of the day here> may actually be something else entirely. Opinion and relativism have always been in play, but integrity is a thing of the past.

My last 2 BMW loaners have been a 430i and an X3 m240i. They are both complete P'sOS, yet the X3 reviews talk about BMW's of old, and the amazing engine, etc. Total BS. It's a pig with lipstick all over it. After that, my E60 M5 felt like a GT3. Yet another data point of reviews being complete BS.

I went through and watched some other ring videos - GT350, Z06, 991 GT3, M4, 718 GTS, etc. None understeered like the M2 Comp, but the closest was the 718, followed by the M4. 718 being mid-engine, I can understand dialing in more understeer, since those cars can get very snappy. M4 I only drove when it first came out, and hated it - wall of torque was different for BMW (could be fun), but it had no traction. Comp pack supposedly fixed much of this, but I haven't driven it since, and don't see the point considering again, since the M2C is smaller.

So, is the M2C another pig with lipstick, or is it the real deal? I like it because it's small, yet enough space for DD duties, has a tunable motor, doesn't draw attention, no adaptive suspension to break, manual tranny, and cheap (relative). I can't think of another car that can check all of those boxes.

So my question comes down to feel - and while nothing will feel like an E30, E36,or E46 M3 anymore, does it feel like one of these POS new BMW's, or does it feel like a real M car?

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

Been going through more reviews and watched the ring video. Ring vid seems to contradict most reviews, i.e. many reviews talk about the great front end, turn-in, grip, while the ring video shows a truly disgusting amount of understeer. Bald fronts and/or a cold day could certainly contribute, and a front sway / different tires could help. But what I'm getting at is a general trend with all reviews - more as marketing efforts (whether for the product being reviewed or for the reviewer) rather than true, complete, and un-biased reviews. I just don't trust them anymore, and second, the younger enthusiasts weren't even driving back when truly "raw" cars existed. So, what they consider <insert awesome millennial adjective of the day here> may actually be something else entirely. Opinion and relativism have always been in play, but integrity is a thing of the past.

My last 2 BMW loaners have been a 430i and an X3 m240i. They are both complete P'sOS, yet the X3 reviews talk about BMW's of old, and the amazing engine, etc. Total BS. It's a pig with lipstick all over it. After that, my E60 M5 felt like a GT3. Yet another data point of reviews being complete BS.

I went through and watched some other ring videos - GT350, Z06, 991 GT3, M4, 718 GTS, etc. None understeered like the M2 Comp, but the closest was the 718, followed by the M4. 718 being mid-engine, I can understand dialing in more understeer, since those cars can get very snappy. M4 I only drove when it first came out, and hated it - wall of torque was different for BMW (could be fun), but it had no traction. Comp pack supposedly fixed much of this, but I haven't driven it since, and don't see the point considering again, since the M2C is smaller.

So, is the M2C another pig with lipstick, or is it the real deal? I like it because it's small, yet enough space for DD duties, has a tunable motor, doesn't draw attention, no adaptive suspension to break, manual tranny, and cheap (relative). I can't think of another car that can check all of those boxes.

So my question comes down to feel - and while nothing will feel like an E30, E36,or E46 M3 anymore, does it feel like one of these POS new BMW's, or does it feel like a real M car?

I suggest that you drive one and make your own decision. You've stated that you don't trust the reviewers opinion, why would you trust the opinion of the thousands of millennials on these boards.

[Ole Red]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I suggest that you drive one and make your own decision. You've stated that you don't trust the reviewers opinion, why would you trust the opinion of the thousands of millennials on these boards.

Plan is to drive a regular M2 and an M4C back to back today or tomorrow. No M2C's for driving here. Post was mildly cathartic to write, hopefully calls out some experienced hoons to weigh in.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

Plan is to drive a regular M2 and an M4C back to back today or tomorrow. No M2C's for driving here. Post was mildly cathartic to write, hopefully calls out some experienced hoons to weigh in.

I read your opinion about the front end on the M2C. I drove the M2 briefly several times and one thing that bugged me was the leaning front end. The M2C is greatly improved in that regard. To me the S55 engine in the M2C really reminded me of a naturally asperated engine. That thing has a smooth power delivery and pulls like crazy to the end. The N55 does not do that. My first car was a Cougar XR7 351 Cleveland, I know old tech 😉.

[Ole Red]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I read your opinion about the front end on the M2C. I drove the M2 briefly several times and one thing that bugged me was the leaning front end. The M2C is greatly improved in that regard. To me the S55 engine in the M2C really reminded me of a naturally asperated engine. That thing has a smooth power delivery and pulls like crazy to the end. The N55 does not do that. My first car was a Cougar XR7 351 Cleveland, I know old tech 😉.

Thanks for the input - if I have the same experience with the regular M2, then I know we see eye to eye. My mom had one of those, also a Cleveland car, convertible in baby blue with white vinyl. Sold in 1980 for 9.5K.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

Thanks for the input - if I have the same experience with the regular M2, then I know we see eye to eye. My mom had one of those, also a Cleveland car, convertible in baby blue with white vinyl. Sold in 1980 for 9.5K.

Cool. Mine was metallic green with white leather and black vinyl top. Unfortunately that car was a bit too much for a 16 year old. It ended up in the wrecking yard 🙄 It had bias belted tires that would spin like a top with all that power...no traction control 😀 one cold damp morning on a turn and that was all she wrote!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

Plan is to drive a regular M2 and an M4C back to back today or tomorrow. No M2C's for driving here. Post was mildly cathartic to write, hopefully calls out some experienced hoons to weigh in.

M2, M2C, and M4 are all heavy, and use electric steering so you might not find what you are looking for.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

Been going through more reviews and watched the ring video. Ring vid seems to contradict most reviews, i.e. many reviews talk about the great front end, turn-in, grip, while the ring video shows a truly disgusting amount of understeer. Bald fronts and/or a cold day could certainly contribute, and a front sway / different tires could help. But what I'm getting at is a general trend with all reviews - more as marketing efforts (whether for the product being reviewed or for the reviewer) rather than true, complete, and un-biased reviews. I just don't trust them anymore, and second, the younger enthusiasts weren't even driving back when truly "raw" cars existed. So, what they consider <insert awesome millennial adjective of the day here> may actually be something else entirely. Opinion and relativism have always been in play, but integrity is a thing of the past.

My last 2 BMW loaners have been a 430i and an X3 m240i. They are both complete P'sOS, yet the X3 reviews talk about BMW's of old, and the amazing engine, etc. Total BS. It's a pig with lipstick all over it. After that, my E60 M5 felt like a GT3. Yet another data point of reviews being complete BS.

I went through and watched some other ring videos - GT350, Z06, 991 GT3, M4, 718 GTS, etc. None understeered like the M2 Comp, but the closest was the 718, followed by the M4. 718 being mid-engine, I can understand dialing in more understeer, since those cars can get very snappy. M4 I only drove when it first came out, and hated it - wall of torque was different for BMW (could be fun), but it had no traction. Comp pack supposedly fixed much of this, but I haven't driven it since, and don't see the point considering again, since the M2C is smaller.

So, is the M2C another pig with lipstick, or is it the real deal? I like it because it's small, yet enough space for DD duties, has a tunable motor, doesn't draw attention, no adaptive suspension to break, manual tranny, and cheap (relative). I can't think of another car that can check all of those boxes.

So my question comes down to feel - and while nothing will feel like an E30, E36,or E46 M3 anymore, does it feel like one of these POS new BMW's, or does it feel like a real M car?

All of those cars you mentioned, except the 718, have way more front tire than the M2 and probably stiffer suspension setups.

While it may still understeer relative to the sports cars you mentioned, I'm pretty sure the M2 has way better front end grip than older BMWs. The M2 has a lot less understeer than my Z4M had.

[Eddien123]

Yeah I'm pretty sure this will be next for me. Maybe a last MY M2C in manual! Congrats to any new owners out there

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by akkando

M2, M2C, and M4 are all heavy, and use electric steering so you might not find what you are looking for.

Yeah it's not hydraulic steering but it's pretty damn good for EPS.

I like Joe's chill demeanour, thanks for posting Law!

[qnet]

I'm subbed to his channel and like his reviews. I remember when he had the black OG M2. He also has a very nicely modded M140i. I wish BMW sold those in the U.S.

[Denk]

I know Joe loves the M lite's but they aren't in the same class as a real M car... He'll be in an M2 comp soon.

[Rayers1997]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I wouldn't put too much thought on these dyno discussions. Every dyno is different, some of them read high while others read low. Dynos should only be used for comparison purposes not to determine how much crank HP the car makes with 100% certainty. Comparing two different cars on the same dyno on the same day or finding out how much you gain from a tune (baseline vs tuned) are the main use cases of dynos IMO.

Forreal, dyno showed I was at 440 and 560. Afterwards was 510 and 600.

Put it on another dyno today, showed 540 and 650?

[life_sucess22]

sidenote; do you guys like those 788m wheels yay or nay?

[Rayers1997]

Originally Posted by life_sucess22

sidenote; do you guys like those 788m wheels yay or nay?

honestly no, everyone loves them. I think they look cheap. idk what it is, but they look like knockoffs, even though they aren't.

[life_sucess22]

Originally Posted by Rayers1997

honestly no, everyone loves them. I think they look cheap. idk what it is, but they look like knockoffs, even though they aren't.

I think they are 666m inspired but I'm not really a fan, 437m or 666m or 763m is more down my alley.

[Rayers1997]

Originally Posted by life_sucess22

I think they are 666m inspired but I'm not really a fan, 437m or 666m or 763m is more down my alley.

I'm trying to get rid of my 666Ms, they ride like hell.

[life_sucess22]

Originally Posted by Rayers1997

I'm trying to get rid of my 666Ms, they ride like hell.

I would assume they are too big for that chassis, I my friend runs the 513m on his m2 I drove it the other day and was like yea I think that's where I'm headed.

[Rayers1997]

Originally Posted by life_sucess22

I would assume they are too big for that chassis, I my friend runs the 513m on his m2 I drove it the other day and was like yea I think that's where I'm headed.

they ride like hell on my f80. they also dont hook when I launch. put on 19s and the car is so much better

[life_sucess22]

Originally Posted by Rayers1997

they ride like hell on my f80. they also dont hook when I launch. put on 19s and the car is so much better

ya, 20s are just for looks in my opinion.. 18s or 19s are the way to go.

[Rayers1997]

Originally Posted by life_sucess22

ya, 20s are just for looks in my opinion.. 18s or 19s are the way to go.

19s