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      01-14-2019, 01:39 PM   #1
Diem68
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High RPM 1st to 2nd gear lockout

At autocross, on the 1-2 shift, the gate into 2nd gear is frequently blocked off preventing the shift to 2nd. It happens more often while shifting in a turn, but still sometimes happens in a straight. Short shifting seems to help most of the time, but that costs time on the clock. It's happened to every person who's driven my car, but doesn't happen to a couple of other M2's I know of.

Fixes I've tried so far without success:

Replaced tranny fluid
Removed aftermarket clutch stop
Replaced tranny mounts

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
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      01-14-2019, 03:30 PM   #2
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Why not have the dealer look at it. The lockout is not normal. There is a lockout from 2 to 1.
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      01-14-2019, 03:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Why not have the dealer look at it. The lockout is not normal. There is a lockout from 2 to 1.
I did. Unfortunately, since they can't re-create the problem, they said the car is fine.
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      01-14-2019, 04:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diem68 View Post
I did. Unfortunately, since they can't re-create the problem, they said the car is fine.
Why don’t you take a service tech for a ride. You can then demonstrate the problem for him.
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      01-14-2019, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diem68 View Post
At autocross, on the 1-2 shift, the gate into 2nd gear is frequently blocked off preventing the shift to 2nd. It happens more often while shifting in a turn, but still sometimes happens in a straight. Short shifting seems to help most of the time, but that costs time on the clock. It's happened to every person who's driven my car, but doesn't happen to a couple of other M2's I know of.

Fixes I've tried so far without success:

Replaced tranny fluid
Removed aftermarket clutch stop
Replaced tranny mounts

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Keep on them and get them to replace the transmission.
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      01-15-2019, 08:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Why don’t you take a service tech for a ride. You can then demonstrate the problem for him.
The only issue with this is that I can't seem to re-create the problem on the street. It's surprisingly hard to drive 10/10ths on the street.

That being said, you've motivated me. I'm going to try harder to re-create the problem on the street, and if I can, I'll take it back to the dealer.
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      01-18-2019, 03:33 PM   #7
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This is the synchros not matching engine vs trans speeds between shifts when you power shift. They can’t replicate your problem b/c they aren’t using the car the way you do. If you get that phenomena to happen too many times your 1-2 synchro will get clunky and feel like an 18 wheeler.

Take a touch off your gear switch and give the synchro a .005s second to catch up. If you have to pull the lever your doing it too fast. Let it slip in and you won’t feel the “lock out” feeling. There is not lockout idiotproofing I’m aware of.
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      01-18-2019, 05:20 PM   #8
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Yup I get the exact same issue on WOT shifts. The only way I can get around it is if I take the 1-2 shift slower.

Do you have a clutch stop op?
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      01-19-2019, 12:42 PM   #9
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Also if it’s much more common while turning, you could be getting some flex in the motor and transmission mounts. Used to happen to me downshifting into 2nd while braking into a particular turn at VIR in my old E46 M3 - got much better once I did stiffer aftermarket motor and trans mounts :twocents:
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      01-26-2019, 08:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yup I get the exact same issue on WOT shifts. The only way I can get around it is if I take the 1-2 shift slower.

Do you have a clutch stop op?
I used to, but took it out. No help, unfortunately.
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      09-20-2020, 04:19 AM   #11
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I have this and find it to be very annoying. It mostly happens to me going 3rd into 2nd. Sometimes it takes several tries to get 2nd gear to engage. Definitely feels like a lockout.
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      09-20-2020, 04:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fined View Post
I have this and find it to be very annoying. It mostly happens to me going 3rd into 2nd. Sometimes it takes several tries to get 2nd gear to engage. Definitely feels like a lockout.
Do you know how to double clutch?
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      09-20-2020, 07:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
Do you know how to double clutch?
You shouldn't have to, though. Sounds like a defect to me.
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      09-20-2020, 09:35 AM   #14
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I've had this issue on occasion, and while I initially attributed it to something out of sorts, I now think it has to do with hand grip position on the gear lever and your arm naturally wants to pull the shifter towards you depending on hand/arm position. This car is more sensitive than others in this regard.

If you're holding the gear knob like a ski pole(thumb on top, fingertips facing driver, elbow down), it may cause the shifter during a quick 1st to 2nd gear change to want to pull towards the driver and not into the gate, giving the sensation of lock out.

By altering hand position on the gear lever to 'on top'(thumb facing driver, fingertips facing forward, elbow facing passenger), you're at better odds towards guiding the gear lever smoothly through the 1st to 2nd gate and not getting hung up with a shift that falls between 1st and nothingness.
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      09-20-2020, 12:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fined View Post
I have this and find it to be very annoying. It mostly happens to me going 3rd into 2nd. Sometimes it takes several tries to get 2nd gear to engage. Definitely feels like a lockout.
When driving aggressively, I think the 3-2 shift has the potential to go past the resistance on the left side of the gate that you would normally push past when you are selecting reverse gear.

If you go to far left in the gate then you can't select second. Happened to me a few times before I figured out what the issue was. Now I'm more careful/precise on the 3-2 shifts as it is (too) easy to push too far left and down when going for 2nd.
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      09-20-2020, 03:16 PM   #16
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Delete please, wrong forum
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      09-20-2020, 06:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHAP13 View Post
When driving aggressively, I think the 3-2 shift has the potential to go past the resistance on the left side of the gate that you would normally push past when you are selecting reverse gear.

If you go to far left in the gate then you can't select second. Happened to me a few times before I figured out what the issue was. Now I'm more careful/precise on the 3-2 shifts as it is (too) easy to push too far left and down when going for 2nd.
Get yourself an Auto Solutions SSK and missed shifts across the gate (& generally) will be a thing of the past, it's all the rubber bushings in the oem linkages. You don't need to go too short (I have 20%), it's the hand assembled bronze linkage bushings that give Porsche like precision & feel.
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      09-20-2020, 08:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHAP13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fined View Post
I have this and find it to be very annoying. It mostly happens to me going 3rd into 2nd. Sometimes it takes several tries to get 2nd gear to engage. Definitely feels like a lockout.
When driving aggressively, I think the 3-2 shift has the potential to go past the resistance on the left side of the gate that you would normally push past when you are selecting reverse gear.

If you go to far left in the gate then you can't select second. Happened to me a few times before I figured out what the issue was. Now I'm more careful/precise on the 3-2 shifts as it is (too) easy to push too far left and down when going for 2nd.
I think this is more likely the issue. I have this exact challenge on both my BMW 6MT's (Z4M, 128i) and possibly my 911 7MT as well. Only on a track!

Frankly its because my adrenaline is running so high on the track at high speeds and cornering and I'm shifting so fast that I try to go for second gear while heel toe'ing but I push the shifter too far left and get into the reverse gear gate. Can't go down into second because the shifter is now too far to the left. You can try it while parked and replicate this "lockout".

Trick is to be calmer when shifting and use a lighter amount of force.

VW's for example don't have this I believe because there is an actual lockout (need to pull up to be able to get to reverse gate if I'm correct).
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      09-22-2020, 04:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus
Do you know how to double clutch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
You shouldn't have to, though. Sounds like a defect to me.
My comment was in regard to 3rd into 2nd, not 1st into 2nd as per the OP.

No, of course you don't have to. It's a synchromesh gearbox.

But you are asking a lot of your synchros if banging down really fast and 2nd is going to end up near the redline by the time the clutch is engaged again. The car will do it but eventually the synchro cone will wear out and the shifts will become notchy. Then the owner will complain that the carmaker should have built a better gearbox.

A bit of mechanical sympathy doesn't hurt.
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      09-22-2020, 09:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
Do you know how to double clutch?
No need on a transmission that has synchros. The common notion of "double clutching like you should" is absolutely misleading on modern day manuals, it only applies to old old cars.
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      09-24-2020, 02:34 PM   #21
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Your pulling the shifter too far to the left between 1-2nd gear and hitting the reverse lockout.

Be more cautious about going straight back into 2nd from 1st.
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      09-24-2020, 04:08 PM   #22
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My challenger does this and it's the most annoying thing in the world.

Fortunately the M2 doesn't have this "feature"
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